isn't kage bushin a "forbidden technique"?
thats probably why nearly no one use that technique, not only is it chakra inefficient (it was mentioned in the anime like 20 times) but it was also in the scroll with "forbidden techniques" naruto stole in the first episodes.
and it seems like not everyone knows about this side effect, kakashi said so because he too can make kage-bushin and thats why he knows about it.
@The Archangel: Tajuu Kage Buunshin no Jutsu was sealed by the First Hokage and there have definitely been wars since then.
What I would really like to know where the "you get your chakra back when a clone dispells" idea comes from, has there been any actual evidence that this or is it pure speculation to try and avoid the idea that Naruto has been shown to survive, and even continue fighting with only:
(Naruto's # of base chakra units - 1000 * the cost of a shadow clone)/1000 units of chakra.
It boggles my mind too, but I don't remember anything that implied that he was getting chakra back after blowing it on clones that did nothing.
You know what bugged me about this episode?
Finding out that Chidori is a lighning element technique.
I know that seems stupid just by looking at it, its obviously electrical.
But in the ENTIRE series, nobody every once mentioned that it was in any way electrical. Every explanation was that it was just like this explosion of raw chakra.
In fact, back when they were still calling it the Lightning Edge, someone asked why it was called that, and Gai said it was because he once used it to cut a lightning bolt.
....really? Are you sure it's not called that because it's a goddamn blade of electricity?
I mean, it almost seems like a retcon at this point.
No, I think this is exactly whats shown to happen.Originally Posted by Yukimura
Almost every fight Naruto gets into he starts out the by making 10-20 clones. Which immediately get destroyed. If his chakra is split evenly amoung them, if he wasn't getting that chakra back when they died, it would mean he was using up 90-95% of his chakra in the first 30 seconds of every battle he's ever had.
Obviously, it takes some chakra to create and maintain the clones, but his chakra supply that is divided amoung the clones will return to him unless the clones themselves use that chakra on Ninjitsu.
It's basically just a plot device for limiting what techniques a clone can use.
For example, if Kakashi has enough chakra to use Chidori 4 times a day, and he makes 10 clones, then each of those clones has 10% of his total chakra, it means none of those clones has the 25% chakra needed to perform Chidori.
And I think thats why in high level fights like Oro vs. 3rd, they say things like "shadow clones would only be useless here and waste chakra". While having more of you should always be useful, if none of them hold enough of your chakra to use your highest level techniques, then yes, they aren't always going to be worth using.
This is just one of those things in Naruto that used to not make sense to me and now it's completely clear.
Last edited by DarthEnderX; Sat, 04-19-2008 at 12:57 PM.
True it was never implied infact the exact opposite was implied but what the hell. With Kishi and especially where Naruto and Sasuke are concerned anything and everything is possible until you're explicitly told that it isn't. If its one thing I've learned, its that.
I don't think you were getting the chakra back though since nothing like that was mentioned, all that was said that when the technique is dispelled the information and experiences of the clone are transferred to the user. I don't think the chakra the clones had remaining is given back because that would negate the risk of the technique which is loosing your chakra so there would be no reason for it to be a forbidden technique. Anyway this could just be yet another reason why Naruto being the only one able to use this technique is implausible.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
But before when Naruto injured Sakura, Yamato implied that they were going to teach Naruto to no longer rely on the Kyuubi and he said the very reason he is there is so that Naruto wouldn't be using the Kyuubi's chakra, so having this training be reliant on the Kyuubi is contradictory.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Exactly, they're not using Kyuubi's chakra, just Naruto's. So why didn't Kakashi make him do this earlier.
Kakashi came up with the idea while he was resting in the hospital.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
No, naruto is definitely using the Kyuubi's chakra, that's why yamato is there, to stop the kyubi from coming out during the training. I mean looks at the number of clones that naruto is using, if kakashi just said he had about 4 times his chakra and he can only handle a couple of shadow clones at the same time...
Finally registered after reading for years just because I had to mention this, since it hasn't been brought up. Everyone keeps mentioning Yamato. Did no one else catch this:
Attachment 132
Maybe it is in the translation, but the way the sentence is formatted and Kakashi is also speaking while looking directly at <whoever it really is behind him> really makes me think this isn't Yamato. Kakashi is even acknowledged with a nod back and the way "Yamato" looks in this scene even has the demeanor of Jiraiya. I would have expected something like, "How the hell did Jiraiya-sama teach this kid a technique like Rasengan? Unbelievable..." if he wasn't speaking TO Jiraiya. If it is Jiraiya, this brings up all kinds of weird questions.
no. he is figuratively asking Jiraiya. It was hypothetical.
I got the impression that it wasn't shutting the Kyuubi out completely, but rather avoiding the fox shroud. Also, it seemed to me that they were worried that if Naruto became worn out the Kyuubi might be awakened, not simply that he would use the Kyuubi chakra. Not saying I'm right but this is what I got out of it. What do you think?
I think the Kyuubi chakra will come into play. But for recovery though. Lets say Kakashi tried the same thing, made 1000 clones and trained. Then say after a half-hour, he was tired and exhausted and had to rest the whole day. Technically he accomplished the same thing as just training all day then resting after he was exhausted. He wouldn't be accomplishing much by using the clones. Naruto on the other hand could maybe keep 1000 going for two hours and then rest for like 1 hour and go back to training. Not exactly in these amounts, but this concept. Remember, it's not only his huge chakra, it's his ability to recover. Naruto could probably train all day and still not be out of stamina. However if he used up all he could quickly, then rested, and repeated, it would probably work out well.
Besides, earlier Kakashi was mainly concentrating on training Sasuke. Then Naruto left with Jiraiya (and learned absolutely nothing). Now Sasuke is getting quality teaching from Oro, so Kakashi finally has the oppor... Nah, now Kakashi finally is forced to train Naruto. But he's a clever man to come up with a teaching technique like this. No wonder he's called a master of techniques.
...??
Wow that's one crazy theory dude. Kinda goes boinkers after you realize that u saw yamato using wood jutsu but nice try lol
If you watch bleach too pls go here i'd love to hear more of those crazy theories
Btw it's not that weird using sama when talking about jiraya, he's one of the legendary sanin after all
The wood technique is why I said it brings up all kinds of weird questions. Kind of why I mentioned the translation, hoping maybe someone can verify just how this line is said and if DB could have been a little off. The other reason this scene stuck with me in regards to the wood technique, have we really ever seen what makes Jiraiya-sama (...??
Wow that's one crazy theory dude. Kinda goes boinkers after you realize that u saw yamato using wood jutsu but nice try lol) so legendary? (outside of just being in the same group as the other two; I really can't remember, if so, remind me) All I can think of is Rasengan and the summons, both of which Naruto can do right now. The list of techniques that Oro can do puts Jiraiya-sama to shame, from what I can recall of his techniques.
What does this have to do with anything?
As far as that scene I saw it and went over it twice because of that. I came to the conclusion that they wanted Kakashi to be making sure Naruto couldn't hear him (talking to the side) and talking to himself. The way he phrases it is not strange if he isn't talking to someone.
He was saying it's not weird to use the "sama" while using his name, here. At least that's what I took from it.
That's what I thought when I first watched it, too. Just kind of wondering after all the training Jiraiya-sama has done with Naruto that he'd be there, as well. He's always taught Naruto the more advanced techniques. Jiraiya is around since he was with Kakashi in the hospital. (I'm too lazy to look for the last episode we saw him, did he say he was going anywhere?) But I do fully admit it's a way-out-there theory.As far as that scene I saw it and went over it twice because of that. I came to the conclusion that they wanted Kakashi to be making sure Naruto couldn't hear him (talking to the side) and talking to himself. The way he phrases it is not strange if he isn't talking to someone.
No one mentioned it being weird until he did lol.He was saying it's not weird to use the "sama" while using his name, here. At least that's what I took from it.
That's the kind of theory i like
Yes, that was what i was saying
As for what makes him so legendary you have to think of him as the "naruto" in that group, he can pull off some amazing stuff but generally he just sucks in comparison to the other 2
He is not the Naruto of the group, and Jiraiya is the most highly regarded of the three and the only one of them who is a sage. Proof of this is that Itachi and Kisame were unwilling to take him on directly even though Itachi was said to have already defeated Orochimaru. Btw Jiraiya doesn't suck in comparison to the others, none of them do but if you had to pick one it would be Tsunade simply because she is a woman and Kishi doesn't seem to be fond of strong women. I don't know how you could ever think that the guy who trained the fourth Hokage sucks. We just haven't seen any of what Jiraiya can do yet, same goes for almost every other character in the series that isn't named Naruto. I mean we didn't even see anything out of Oro worthy of his reputation until his battle with four tailed Naruto and it was already shown that Jiraiya too had an encounter with four tails.
First half of your post, simple answer is yes it was said to be lightning, multiple times even atleast in the manga anyway, will have to rewatch the earlier parts of the anime to be sure but I think it was mentioned there as well. As for the "lightning edge" part I think the translation there was pretty bad as "lightning edge" doesn't refer to something that is made of lightning but something that is used to cut lightning which is why they asked why it had that name.
As to the last part of your post hopefully this will put things to rest but it was said that the risk of using the shadow clone technique is that your chakra is divided up between your clones. If the chakra was returned to the user then there would be no risk, since the chakra would be returned to the user. Also if the chakra is returned then there would be no reason why other people couldn't use the technique.
Then ofcourse there is this, if anyone remembers when Jiraiya was first teaching Naruto to use summoning he told him to get rid of all his normal blue chakra because he needed to use the red chakra for the technique. What Naruto proceeded to do was use shadow clones to use up most of his chakra and he then had a taijutsu battle with the clones to use up his stamina which as was explained before can be used to provide more chakra. After using the clones he was out of chakra and after fighting with them he was out of stamina so he was completely empty which is why he was only able to summon tadpoles because although he was empty he still didn't know "how" to access the Kyuubi's chakra which is why Jiraiya threw him off a cliff, hehehe that is still funny. Its just that as was mentioned numerous times before on this forum, in this thread and others, the rules Kishi establishes for his world often don't apply to either Naruto or Sasuke.
-Btw the way as to the elemental thing I hope that this didn't come as much of a shock to any of you since most of you should have figured that out by now. I mean with everyone going around saying fire style, water style, wind style etc it shouldv'e been obvious. Kishi pretty much gave it away in the beginning when he said there were five kages and each of them represented a specific element, Hokage-Fire, Mizukage-Water, Raikage-Lightning, Tsuchikage-Earth and Kazekage-Wind.
Last edited by Abdula; Sun, 04-20-2008 at 12:23 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
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