Special A

[Buffalobiian]

Plot Summary: Hikari Hanazono, the main character, has always been second to Kei Takishima. While Hikari considers Kei a rival and somewhat of a friend, Kei loves Hikari. Everyone knows this, but she is too dense to notice. Their wrestling loving fathers first introduced them to one another when they were 6 years old. Assuming that she was the best in wrestling, young Hikari challenged Kei to a wrestling match only to be thoroughly defeated by him. Ever since that fateful incident, Hikari swore to beat Kei in school grades, a sporting event - anything. To do this she has enrolled in the same school as Kei since elementary. Now she attends Hakusenkan, an ultra elite school, that costs her carpenter father a lot of money. Hikari and Kei are the top two students in the school, with Kei holding firmly to that number one position. -ANN-

Special A - 01 BakaWolf & m.3.3.w Xvid
Special A - 01 BakaWolf & m.3.3.w H264

[Ryllharu]

I'm not so sure about the art style on this one. Usually, I'm very open to the more unique art styles, but it looks like Gonzo took their old dog named Gatekeepers and had it breed with Production I.G.'s xxxHolic because the two thought the resulting puppies would look funny.

They were right.

Other than that, it's not a bad series....but I'm probably content with the manga.

Yuko Goto and Jun Fukuyama as the two lead characters are a big plus though, and Akira (my favorite character) being played by Hitomi Nabatame? Very tempting.

Well, we'll see how it goes. This series has my endorsement, light fun, stupid storylines that make you laugh at how ridiculous they are making it all, but I'm just not sure at this point if I want to spend the time watching it when I already read it.

But Hitomi Nabatame.....

[shinta|hikari]

While I am a fan of Jun Fukuyama, I'm not sure if he fits the voice for Kei. Kei is arrogant, but is generally likable, while the Lelouch voice is admittedly terribly annoying at times. Maybe that is why they practically overhauled Kei's face from the manga (making him look like some naughty villain), which I believe has superior art.

[TheBladeChild]

This looks like a anime I can use to pass them time inbetween episodes of CG, I guess ill stick to it.

[animus]

While I am a fan of Jun Fukuyama, I'm not sure if he fits the voice for Kei. Kei is arrogant, but is generally likable, while the Lelouch voice is admittedly terribly annoying at times. Maybe that is why they practically overhauled Kei's face from the manga (making him look like some naughty villain), which I believe has superior art.

Jun Fukuyama's Lelouch is awesome, and I felt it fit quite well for Kei.

[shinta|hikari]

Don't get me wrong, by saying terribly annoying, I mean it as in Lelouch's arrogance itself, which implies that Fukuyama did the role perfectly.

Kei isn't like Lelouch at all. His arrogance is more for teasing than any true self-admiration or pride.

[Ryllharu]

I'd disagree with that. Kei uses his arrogance for teasing....Hikari, and Hikari alone. He is not arrogant to other members of the S.A. because they are really not bothered at all by the rankings. They are either in the SA or not.

But Kei's arrogance is very real and completely justified. We saw this in his clashes with the three cheaters. His death glare when they were denouncing all of them, and then again when he found them trying to depose the SA using illegitimate means.

He has a lot of pride. Real pride that is displayed to ungrateful, jealous, or similarly prideful inferiors/rivals, but you are correct in his arrogance is almost certainly fake in the case of Hikari. You could see his face go cold when he found out the letter wasn't a challenge and was an invite to something completely non-Hikari centered.

To go off on a little tangent, you can see that he views these little challenges of hers as "mini-dates," since it involves just the two of them solely focused on each other. Sure, Hikari doesn't see it that way, but Kei definitely does, and it shows right from this episode.

So...Hikari took what Kei must view as a love letter, and turned it into a the equivalent of a court summons. His joking mask fell off, and he became serious.

Those kind of roles are perfect for Jun Fukuyama.

(shinta, does the annoying version of his voice in your experience come from watching Watanuki in xxxHolic? I can see where you are coming from if that is the case.)

[shinta|hikari]

No, you misunderstand. His voice is not annoying, its Lelouch that can get annoying with his self love and arrogance at times. Don't get me wrong, I like him, but that doesn't mean I have to like everything he does.

Kei does have a lot of pride. That is not arrogant. The word arrogant itself implies that it is unjustified, and has a negative connotation. What he did with the three cheaters was completely justified and is in the bound of his skill. He did not brag about it but merely stated facts. Jun Fukuyama has a malicious tone to his voice, which enables him to play characters like Lelouch, but I thought that was unnecessary for Kei. I'd prefer him played by a less arrogant sounding voice.

[animus]

Uh, you can be arrogant and have it justified, negative connotation or not.

[shinta|hikari]

Uh, no?

The definition of arrogant is "Overly convinced of one's own superiority and importance" (thesaurus). There are other definitions but all to the same effect. The fact that it includes the word "overly" means that it is not justified, unless of course you are trying to say that justifying is simply making an excuse for acting like an ass like most people do.

In Kei's case, he is practically perfect in everything he does, and is the best in all fields. Its not arrogant to state that fact, and he never goes around and offends other people flaunting it.

[animus]

You quoted something from the thesaurus?

If you look at the dictionary (like you should), not every definition has overly in it or unjustified. Being the best at everything or not, or bragging about it or not Kei is definitely arrogant. He calls Hikari Miss 2. And when he came out to defend Hikari in the afternoon he said "There's no use talking to their kind."

He's definitely arrogant, fact of him being the best at everything or not.

[shinta|hikari]

Err, I think it has been established that Kei is arrogant to Hikari, but that is simply for teasing.

The line you just quoted illustrates my point perfectly. Do you honestly think that they don't deserve such a comment? That's not arrogant. He was just telling the truth.

I think you are simply stretching the definition a bit. If you read the dictionary (like you should) from different sources, and try to understand the implication of the definition, then it is clear there is a negative meaning to it, in the sense that the belief in oneself or self confidence is in excess. That is in every definition you can find, or at the very least almost all of them. If you can find a definition that says arrogance is justified and is not an excess of pride or confidence, please post it.

Still, I am simply being sensitive to the intricacies of language. Meanings of words tend to become confused in time. I do understand what you are trying to say, its just that the word for it is not arrogant.

[Ryllharu]

Meanings of words do not tend to become confused over time. They change. Language is not a static thing by any stretch of the imagination.

You are both right. But..."arrogance" has shifted to a negative connotation that implies someone is boastful and proud of their own skills. Whether it is not justified and now even if it is. Arrogance is perceived.

Kei is teasing Hikari. Only Hikari. But that does not make him not arrogant to everyone else. Kei may be stating it matter of factly, and the other members of the S.A. certainly know he's not an arrogant asshole and that he's only being matter-of-fact.

But Hikari and all they jealous people in the school think he is an arrogant asshole. Is it true? No. But Kei is very public about his teasing of Hikari. So everyone outside of the S.A. sees him being an asshole to her, and presumes that that is precisely what he is.

Like many other words used as labels, "arrogance" is applied by everyone else, not the subject of the word.

[shinta|hikari]

Language does change, but there are cases when it gets confused. Your first statement is a very very hasty generalization, and I believe you will notice what I mean if you reread it. The common usage of "arrogant" is indeed what you have noted it to be, but that was not the way I used it in my argument, and neither it is the established meaning of the word in the academe.

Even if he is perceived as arrogant by others, that does not mean he is really arrogant. It is simply the case of mistaken expression. For example, if a girl is perceived as a whore by others because of her clothing or how she acts, that does not make her a whore, since the conditions of being a whore (as society understands it) may not be met. The whole argument was about whether Kei is actually arrogant or not, not if he is perceived to be arrogant. The standard for this, well, is the very definition I posted.

Like I said, even the word arrogant can mean different things to different people, and that is the main reason why me and animus don't seem to meet eye to eye. He is not necessarily wrong, if he is indeed basing his argument on the common usage of arrogant. But if we check the actual definition from reliable sources, then my argument would be correct. Since we probably did have a different understanding of the word, the conclusion is a moot point. I simply wanted to clarify this in my last post.

[Kraco]

Watch his first meeting with Hikari again if you want to see whether he has a tendency to show arrogance towards people in general. You can't say his arrogance is only reserved for Hikari when he was like that even before he had met her. Unless you suggest his personality suddenly changed the second he saw her. He's just not a flamboyantly arrogant but more silently arrogant. It's conceivable that whole aspect of personality developed as a self-defense mechanism if he has always been the best. Such people have to suffer the jealousy and envy of others throughout their lives and under such circumstances they can only either submit or ignore others (which can be observed as arrogance) (well, I suppose beating the hell out of others to make them submit is also an option but I choose to disregard that choice here).

Like has been said, arrogance is a negative description, and as such it surely can be said to be overly prideful of one's worth. I have to agree with Ryllharu on that; it doesn't matter whether the difference of worth is real or not, it only matters the arrogant person acts like there is a difference. That's why you can have situations like in this ep, where Hikari was starting to submit to the three jerks (being not arrogant) and Kei, on the other hand, chose to ignore them, displaying arrogance (as observed by those three).

[shinta|hikari]

As I said, that definition of "arrogant" is only common usage. It is not the original meaning of the word. And having such a difference, the conclusion will obviously differ.

In the case of Hikari, he knew that he was going to beat her, and simply stated that she may embarass herself (which she did) if she continued her challenge. It is of course in consideration of his skill in wrestling, and not an overestimation or excess of belief in oneself.

If you take arrogant to mean that way, even I agree that Kei is arrogant. And if you take arrogant the way I understand it (as well as how it is defined in most if not all vocabulary sources) then even you have to agree with my statements. There really is no argument, at least not anymore.

[animus]

He's never even met her and he already told her she would lose, and that he would beat her. That's an overevaluation of one's self. It is unjustified, since he's never even met her, or seen her fight.

If he's not arrogant by common usage, or by definition then you might have a few screws loose.

[shinta|hikari]

If you have never been beaten your entire life, and is always the best at everything, it is only natural to assume that you will win right? That is what he did, and by the definition of arrogant I gave, he is not arrogant in that case. Its justified by all his previous experience and he merely stated fact. If he did get beaten by Hikari, its not an overestimation of himself, but rather an underestimation of Hikari's abilities, which is quite different (unless of course you want to clump them together again, which I don't really mind as long as you explain).

To put it simply, you are judging the situation as if its real. In reality, there is no such thing as a person who never loses or is the best at everything. But in Special A, he does exist, and that person is Kei. You can't really judge his actions with the usual standard, especially because he obviously thinks and acts much differently from "normal" people. Just because it seems arrogant to you doesn't mean he is arrogant on every standard (and this can be used in argument as long as the standard is clarified and explained, which I did).

I know there is a premium to humility, which indicates that one must not brag about one's abilities. But all we are discussing here is the meaning of the word "arrogant" itself (the issue about Kei depends entirely on this), and if you cannot even understand that, then I will simply end here.

[Kraco]

Yeah, maybe you should end there, because I doubt anybody will understand your definition of the word. You view it as some sort of a meter of person's worth or skills. But in every context I've ever seen it used it's actually a word to describe someone's behavior. A total loser can act arrogantly to cover his shortcomings, which is very common indeed, or an elite person can act arrogantly because he honestly believes he's the chosen one and everyone else is somewhere below him.

You say if a person really is better than someone else in something then he can't be arrogant when speaking about that skill, no matter how nasty or condescending his tone. Then what do you call behavior like that? Surely you do have another word for it? And I'm not going to accept "justified".

[Ryllharu]

@shinta:
You are splitting hairs over viewpoints again.

Arrogance is always a label applied by an 3rd party. Someone doesn't call themselves arrogant, they perfectly believe that they are correct, the strongest, the smartest, the best, etc. Nor is it "boasting" to them, in their mind they are simply relating FACT. As Kraco said, it is a behavioral label, not an aptitude one.

Take the exchange when they were children. Hikari claimed she wouldn't be defeated, so Kei shut her up by defeating her handily. Before the fight, Hikari is arrogant from Kei's viewpoint. She catches robbers at age 5, so her assumed victory from her viewpoint is simply matter-of-fact. At the same time, Kei's smug victory (though from his viewpoint it was simply matter-of-fact) comes off extremely arrogant to Hikari, thus poisoning their relationship, from her viewpoint, up to present day.

But we're not done with viewpoints. Our story is presented from Hikari's viewpoint. All our standards must be set by her view. Our protagonist labels him arrogant, then he is. I'm sure down the road this will have to change, as this is a romance comedy.