Game: GTA IV

[Genma]

Well, yeah, there'd be protest. But honestly in the end it wouldn't matter, because video games are still a form of freedom of speech.

Still, I wouldn't mind them making a law or something that made it impossible for little kids to play it. I'm seriously sick of hearing 6-12 year olds in multiplayer with their squeaky voices and stuff.

Just today I played with a kid that was no way older than 8, and every time he died he'd be like, "Oi... awww... you bloody c**nt..." I was shocked.

[Sandldan]

Well there's always something the society is blaming for violence or "todays youth" many of the past things are now fully accepted, seems like gaming is the current scapegoat. But Jack Thompson is just a bit too much, he's been banned from several courts and his license had been revoked.

Here's a letter he sent to the rockstar boss's... mom...

Mrs. Zelnick
Strauss Zelnick, Take-Two Chairman's Mother
New York, New York Via e-mails to intermediaries

Re: Your Son, Strauss Zelnick

Dear Mrs. Zelnick:

Your son, as you may know (or maybe you don't know), is Chairman of Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc., whose most popular video games are the Grand Theft Auto murder simulator games banned in some countries but sold to children here.

Your son last week was reported to have said the following about Grand Theft Auto IV, due to be released Tuesday, April 29: "We've already received numerous [GTA IV] reviews, and to a one, they are perfect scores. My mom couldn't write better reviews..." Taking your son's thought, I would encourage you either to play this game or have an adroit video gamer play it for you. Some of the latter gamers are on death row, so try to find one out in the civilian population who hasn't killed someone yet.

What you will see in your son's game, if this iteration of GTA is anything like its predecessors, is incredible interactive violence aimed at police officers (whom you can shoot in the head and see the blood spray), innocent bystanders (whom you can run over with your car just for the heck of it), and of course the plentiful female prostitutes you can have sex with and then filet with a knife or stomp with your feet in order to get your money back. Experts note that the recent plethora of cop killings is caused in part by your darling son's entrepreneurial energy. There are three policemen dead in Alabama because of Grand Theft Auto. I was on 60 Minutes about it. I hope Strauss has provided you with a flat screen tv to see the grief of the bereaved families that fills the screen.

The pornography and violence that your son trafficks in is the kind of stuff that most mothers would be ashamed to see their son putting into the hands of other mothers' children, but, hey, your son Strauss has recently assured the world that he is "a Boy Scout, everybody knows that." I'd love to see the merit badges that Scout Troop handed out. Is there a Ted Bundy merit badge? If so, your loving son deserves one now. It should be red and green, for obvious reasons.

With Passover having just come and gone, it is appropriate to note the following from the Old Testament, Proverbs 22:6:

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

Mrs. Zelnick, did you train up your son, Strauss, to make millions of dollars by pushing Mature-rated video games to children? Any kid can go right to little Strauss' corporate web site and buy GTA IV with no age verification. Strauss is even marketing the new Grand Theft Auto IV on World Wrestling Entertainment tv shows seen by millions of kids. If you trained up Strauss to do this, then shame on you.

But maybe the explanation for your son's corporate sociopathy is to be found in Old Testament Proverb 29:15:

"The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."

Maybe you, Mrs. Zelnick, were so taken by your handsome son that you spared the rod and spoiled the child. That would explain why he has brought you, by the way he presently acts, "to shame."

There's another mother you would do well to talk to. Mrs. Crump in Alabama had a son who was a police officer. He's now dead because a teenaged boy unwittingly trained himself to kill him on Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. She has a grief she carries every day that only a mother can know.There are other such mothers in the heartland of America whose inhabitants your son simply sees as commercial targets.

Your son, this very moment, is doing everything he possibly can to sell as many copies of GTA IV to teen boys in the United States, a country in which your son claims you raised him to be "a Boy Scout." More like the Hitler Youth, I would say. Happy Mother's day, Mrs. Zelnick, which this year is May 11, two weeks after your son unleashes porn and violence upon other mothers' boys. I'm sure you're very proud.

Sincerely,
Jack Thompson

He should not be taken seriously, unfortunately tv stations such as fox news does


But he still shows his support to rockstar ;o

[python862]

That's bullshit and everyone knows it. If Thompson seriously thinks that Rockstar and Take-Two are peddling this game to children, he's got to be seriously mentally challenged. The ESRB (among other organizations and committees) wouldn't allow the company to sell the games if they were meant for that. You can't just walk into a Wal-Mart and say, "Give me GTA IV," unless you have ID or A PARENT there to authorize it. It has nothing to do with Rockstar or TT; they only make the damn games. If Thompson was so worried about it, he'd be contacting all the parents in America and beyond, telling them to make a wiser choice about what their sons or daughters are playing. I agree, ten-year-olds shouldn't even think about playing this game, but as long as there are pushable parents, there will be little kids getting every single violent game there is. On another note, it's not VGs that are teaching our kids to go out and shoot the towns up, it's the parents not moderating what the hell their kids are doing.

Organizations that try to stop the violence have no idea what they're doing either. They keep going to the VG-selling stores and protesting, when the real decision rests in the hands of the children's parents. I guess what this whole schpiel is trying to say is that the fault is the parents'. If they kept better track of their children, cared more, looked after them, and most importantly TAUGHT their children right from wrong, problems like this wouldn't even exist. As it is now, we have people only having children for the frickin' welfare benefits. And then they give the children EVERYTHING they want. I'm not going to say it's only African-Americans either; there are plenty enough white people - and Chinese, Japanese, etc. - who do the same thing. What is the world coming to?

[RyougaZell]

The kids can just turn on the TV and watch all that without playing GTA.
But yes... parents buying M rated games for their 10 year old children are idiotic.

[Chiodos]

Shit someone is angry!

Rockstar where supposed to put a random mission in the beginning of the game to blow up a some certain anti-game violance advocate. Wich they did remove of course..

And another question, I read in this thread about some Xbox 360 stuff they just put in that version and such.. anyone knows..what it is?..

And aslo, I am fawking curious about The Easter Eggs!

...no, seriously xD!

And of top of it all..... Boxes? What Boxes? WHERE :' ( !??!?!??...

DAMN SHIT MOTHA ACHIEVEMT THAT I CAN'T GET!!!!!11111....

[python862]

AHA! I have actually found solid evidence that videogames DO NOT cause violence in kids! My 'research'

[KrayZ33]

do you guys seriously discuss if games trigger violence?

well they do on 8 or 10 years old.. but once you reach a certain age they won't have an effect anymore.
and btw its funny to read in all those magazines : "a new statistic proved that video games do*" or "do not...... *blablabla*"

I mean, come on? what the fuck? every statistic proves something different?! the first one says something like "hey video games make people violent!" the second one says "there is no way that video games have an effect on people" and then the next again "the statistic shows cleary that video games are making you agressive" -> one week later "The university of *researching useless things* made a statistic which has proven that computer games do not make oneself agressive" etc.. its just too funny!

Doesn't that prove that there is no rule of generality with computer games and that the reason for being agressive is somewhere else and not (only) in video games or brutal movies? maybe because in every ghetto there are people fighting on the street and insulting each other? just because those people happen to have a xbox at home or a TV doesn't mean that games or movies are the cause for their aggressivity, maybe its because they have problems which nobody cares about? but nooooo that would be too much to handle for the state, so they search for a scapegoat.... and what do we have here.. every second child or young adult in modern countries has a PC or console at home... yet the mayoritie of the older people don't know anything about computers... thats just perfect lets explain to them that the games and movies are at fault! those old people will surely agree on that, since they never played a game themself and look how normal they behave!
It must be the game!

and btw... american people (or maybe just the parents or so :P) are funny... their movies and games are full of gore, bloodchat and violence but *oh my god* its always a disaster if people spot a nipple in one of those movies or even games... this is too ridicilous and cracks me up everytime

isn't this just wrong? they try to forbid some really small sex scenes in games/movies (whatever) but allow in the very same game people to cut of each others heads?
and there i thought we live in an ge of Enlightenment... those kids start to have sex when they get 14 or 15 so whats wrong with sex in games which is rated for people who have reached 18(? how did it get rated in america? i think because it has some naked-pixel-body in it it should be rated 18 there)

and btw whoever can't differ reality from virtuality is alrdy fucked up, the video game is just the thing to bring this matter to a head. Because if he needs to escape from reality into virtuality, then there is already something very wrong there and thats where those "games make people violent"-guys have to look at and work on because THATS the real problem. It's always society and not one single game, but thats not what people like to hear is it?

I can agree if people allow games only for people who reached 18 years, but why do they try to forbid it even for them?
It's like they tell me to stop drinking alcohol... it makes me violent sometimes (no it doesn't but it does have that effect on other people sometimes) and so on.
so tell me who is at fault, the alcohol addict, the alcohol... or the problems which actually made the man an addict?

if we transfer it to our example here its obviously the alcohol isn't it? "bad alcohol! don't do that!" its just makes me angry that those "politicans" try to take always the easiest route for solving a problem, it doesn't matter if its right or wrong as long as it doesn't make problems and is easy to solve

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I guess I got too much into it.

[Buffalobiian]

When you think about it, back 20 odd years ago, the R rating was applied to anything that had moderate sex scenes, violence and coarse language. Now they've pretty much dropped everything except for the sex part, and it's reserved for the most explicit ones.

Regarding Krayz's post about 18-rated scenes and stuff, what's American Pie and GTA:IV rated in the US? I heard the latter was rated 18 there, but 15 here.

[Ryllharu]

American Pie is rated R (age 17, or less with an adult) while GTA4 is rated M (17, or bought by an adult) so in this case it works out that sex is okay and then hyperviolence is depending on who's buying. Typically as KraZ33 pointed out, the reverse is true.

But the far stranger thing about the US ratings system is NC-17. Movies that are "granted" or more aptly cursed by this rating tend to apply most often to the fairer sex enjoying...well, sex. There's a pretty good documentary about the ratings board and all the bullshit that goes with it. Remember that no advertising of any kind is allowed for movies "graced" with this rating.
This Film is Not Yet Rated

-------------------------------
All in all, I'm loving GTA4. Even the less thrilling "date night" parts with all your friends to maintain the connections. There's a lot of really funny or good dialogue during those parts, and the characters really get filled out compared to the "GTA3" set of games. It's nice and relaxing some of the time.

But my favorite part is tracking down all the crackheads or other random street people for the random missions they give.

The city really feels like a city this time.

[python862]

KrayZ, you sorta flip-flopped in your argument. It does in 8-10 year-olds, but no other demographic? It doesn't at all! The point of videogames, as you alluded to, is to escape from every day reality. You go on to say that there's some problem with that. I don't think so. The way I think is that people need an escape from the everyday ordinary 9 to 5 bullshit that they are constantly having to go through. Here's an example; why do you post on a forum site? To get away from your normal friends and talk with someone hundreds, or possibly thousands of miles away. It's the same philosophy with games - especially online games. Prime example: MMOs like WoW and Guild Wars.

As what Ryllharu said, all of the GTA games have been rated M, which is for 17+. This falls into what I said earlier; the parents are buying these games for their children without second thought. I know mine will, but I also make sure that they know my own capacity. They know I'm shy - or "introverted" - but at the same time they know I won't go out killing. The parents hardly monitor the state of their children. I know, I'm starting to rant, so I'm going to wrap up this post with this: no, games DO NOT create violent children, yes, most parents are simply retarded, and no, games should not be censored for what second-rate politicians think or do.

[Ryllharu]

Like python said, the problem with violent video games from the original Mortal Kombat up to GTA4 has always been parents having no idea what they're buying for their little kid.

Ask any game store clerk how many times he/she has had a mother getting all riled up because little Johnny wanted "Mario for Xbox 3" and the store doesn't carry it. Its the same parents who walk in and buy "Immortal Bloodrender VI" without a second thought.

It those kind of parents that have no idea what they are buying, what the kids are playing, and whether or not it is appropriate for their child's age group. Simply because they do not play with their own children. Whenever I end up with offspring, I will be sure that I'm either playing along side them, or watching what they are playing. And I won't be playing my own games that I would deem inappropriate for them in front of them.

It's called parenting, and no one does it.

------------------------------------

Just had a good bout of multiplayer with a friend or two and a bunch of people from Great Britain I think. Lots of fun after you get used to it.

[Chiodos]

A small note, in the game...IF you read some of the new on the net and read news that had something about someone dies, the text mention "....it could be a violent person caused by videgames!" or something like that.

I kinda loled at it after reading what you guys posted.

And still, w00t boxes??

[KrayZ33]

KrayZ, you sorta flip-flopped in your argument. It does in 8-10 year-olds, but no other demographic? I

remember the news: "sand ninja - kid got burried alive"

The point of videogames, as you alluded to, is to escape from every day reality. You go on to say that there's some problem with that. I don't think so. The way I think is that people need an escape from the everyday ordinary 9 to 5 bullshit that they are constantly having to go through.

actually I meant "video games are a nice way to relax after a hard day " etc
I don't see *gaming* as *escaping from real life*
It's a hobby, like playing baseball or so... and ya there are days were I'm really agressive and play shooter-games...
you know there are days were you wish to kick a football so hard that it flies to the moon because you are angry.. but would you kick someone that hard into the ass just because he annoyed you? no, most likely not and I would never shoot at someone just because I killed a pixel-monster with a gun.

and I still stand behind the fact that

whoever can't differ reality from virtuality is alrdy fucked up, the video game is just the thing to bring this matter to a head

I think it's the same with drugs... those who need them to "escape" are alrdy fucked up, they take drugs because they can't take reality anymore, because its too painfull to live for them or something like that

and those who make their game into a second reality or play brutal video because they want to see people dead and transfer these scenes into their real life, have the same problems as the drug addict.

so I say, there is the possibility that people think "I will kill the people at school like in Counterstrike" but that isn't the real problem, the problem in the first place is, that he acutally wants to see these people dead so badly or that he gets those feelings in the first place...

because it doesn't matter if he kills them with a gun or with a kitchen knife. If these feelings exist, then it will happen anyways, the means he uses however are simply irrelevant.

another funny thing is that politican try to forbid games with guns or weapons, but allow every citizen to carry a gun @ home etc.

If it were not so damn easy to get weapons, then school massacres etc. wouldn't happen in the first place.

[python862]

You bring up good points, but there's this:

and those who make their game into a second reality or play brutal video because they want to see people dead and transfer these scenes into their real life, have the same problems as the drug addict.

People don't often want to translate in-game violence to real-world violence. They make these games a 'second reality' so that they can do certain things that laws and morals would consider highly wrong in the actual world we live in. It's mostly just the people stuffed up their own ass that get the two so confused that they end up actually killing people. And even then, it's not the videogames that caused the violence - if they confuse the two mediums (life and videogames) then that pretty much constitutes a mental problem, whether it be retardation or what have you.

[itadakimasu]

the game is pretty fun. I made the mistake of getting drunk w\ my favorite 'boss' little jacob... went to the bar not knowing i'd come out drunk... for some reason the police were chasing me and it was an intense and very difficult chase driving drunk.

i have about 15 - 16 hours in and still only around 25% completion. Can somebody tell me why when i join a game on xbox live, after it ends its then as if i'm hosting the game... i ddont get it.

[Chiodos]

I don't really get it, when your joining a game online then it is as if your hosting a game? W00t?

What really annoys me is when you disconnect you return to the singel player mode instead of a black screen online lobby. It really, really annoys me...

[itadakimasu]

I still don't know what an online lobby looks like... and that reminds me that i bought DOA 4 last week on ebay and it still hasn't arrived.. what gives?

Anyhow. Im possibly about to quit playing because I'm stuck w\ 2 shitty missions that I can't pass. and then every time I call little jacob to deliver some drugs its timed and i am always late.

One cool thing i found, i saw this weird shape on the radar like a stick figure... so i went to it, and it was badman and me and him went and shot up some drug dealers together, that was pretty cool to just find a random charactor chilling on the street, then he jumps in my car and we goto whack some poeple.

[Animeniax]

This is one of the best games ever. Definitely the best GTA game ever. They fixed so many of the things in the previous games that made them less fun than they could have been. There's so much you can do in this game. It's a little weird, kind of like any RPG where you're living someone else's life, even dating and bowling and playing pool. But beyond that it's a great game. I've never spent as much time playing a game as I am with this one. I spent most of my rare day off the other day playing this game. It's a blast.

[itadakimasu]

They did fix alot of lame stuff from the previous ones like water = instant death.

The cars are definately alot more sturdy than they were in gta 3, you can catch fire by getting out of your burning car (sucks!)

I sold mine today w\ my 2 week old xbox because im going to buy the ps3 on thursday but maybe i will buy the ps3 version eventually. idk.

[Animeniax]

Yeah, you can swim now. I haven't tried just wading to see if you sink to your death, but you can swim to land. It autosaves after every successful interaction with another character. Load times are still a pain, and camera control is wonky at times too. You can take taxis or a car service everywhere, and with GPS, you don't have to learn the maps to get around. I used to waste so much time trying to find a location.

I didn't play GTA:SA, so I don't know if these changes were already added.