Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2

[Buffalobiian]

Who gives them permission to "relinquish" the black knight army as you put it.

I never said that. What I've said was that all the nations in the UN has relinquished their military powers. In other words, they're screwed without the Black Knights. They're powerless. They're mere blocks of land for the taking. Sure they can rebuild, or reorganise their ranks, but not in time to save themselves from Britannia.

As for about Todou and the others leading the Black Knights, it's not wrong to say they, in a sense, are. (Not that I said that initially, but I am now)

All those who hold immediate power under Zero have betrayed him. Word of Zero, whether true or false, will spread in their ranks, thanks to the media manipulator Diethard.

Let's say Zero starts recruiting BK members from across the world. What would they do? Meanwhile, the elite BK members, the ones who actually hold some form of military might, tell others that Zero is a traitor. Who will the world believe? One person, who is/was the leader of their revolution, or the many people under him who claim to have evidence? Should the voice message that Zero ordered Euphie's Massacre go out, it would be over. No words from Zero will wipe the fact that he ordered to kill the very people he was fighting for.

But let's assume that Zero is as influencial as the rest of the betraying BK members. The rest of the UN would not know who to follow. They'll be in confusion and uncoordinated, like the very power they have chosen to depend upon.

A confused and uncoordinated force to a might such as Britannia is simply cannon fodder, whether it be to Knightmares firepower or Schneizel's cunning.

[lelouch]

they're screwed without the Black Knights. They're powerless. They're mere blocks of land for the taking. Sure they can rebuild, or reorganise their ranks, but not in time to save themselves from Britannia.

Who are the "black knights" you are referring to. 100 foot soldiers and a general from japan? They don't need to rebuild anything nor reorganize. Japan is a very small island with a very small population. The only reason they got so far on their own was because of a few gundams and zero's mastermind/geass.

As for about Todou and the others leading the Black Knights, it's not wrong to say they, in a sense, are. (Not that I said that initially, but I am now)

No.... they aren't... Zero is the leader.

All those who hold immediate power under Zero have betrayed him. Word of Zero, whether true or false, will spread in their ranks, thanks to the media manipulator Diethard.

Kallen, Jeremiah, and probably Raksha as well are the only useful members from japan (besides Todou and the other two remaining swordsmen who weren't really that helpful anyway) and they still remain loyal to Zero. I say Raksha because I doubt she cares much about Euphie. All she really seems to care about is make stronger knightmares, take down brittannia, and beat her rival the Duke/Count or whatever he was.

All other members who hold immediate power are not from japan, such as xing-ke who also probably could care less about Euphie, and even if he did, he still has the intelectual capability to first ask Zero for his reasons.

Let's say Zero starts recruiting BK members from across the world. What would they do?

Zero doesn't need to recruit anybody... He has half the world following him.

Meanwhile, the elite BK members, the ones who actually hold some form of military might, tell others that Zero is a traitor.

What elite BK members? Todou, 2 swordsmen, and a camera man?

What military might? 100-300 foot soldiers?

Zero is a traitor? So he's surrendering his army to reclaim his own country not caring about the rest of the world?

Who will the world believe? One person, who is/was the leader of their revolution, or the many people under him who claim to have evidence?

It is irrelevant who they "believe". They will follow the person who has performed many miracles and is very capable AND willing to take down brittania and fight oppression. I very much doubt they will follow cowards who betray the entire BKE to have their own country back, not caring what happens to the rest of the world.

Evidence of what? Geass? All the better, zero has an ability which gives the BKE a large advantage. Who cares if he can turn on/brainwash them in the future? They know that they want brittannia taken down, and Zero is the only one who can help them do it.

Should the voice message that Zero ordered Euphie's Massacre go out, it would be over. No words from Zero will wipe the fact that he ordered to kill the very people he was fighting for.

Most of the world does not care much about Euphie... And again, many have the intelect to listen to Zero's side of the story rather than Britannia's which is obviously propaganda. I doubt the entire world will give up their fight for freedom and take out the only man capable of leading them because he killed a little princess and a few japanese.

But let's assume that Zero is as influencial as the rest of the betraying BK members. The rest of the UN would not know who to follow. They'll be in confusion and uncoordinated, like the very power they have chosen to depend upon.

A confused and uncoordinated force to a might such as Britannia is simply cannon fodder, whether it be to Knightmares firepower or Schneizel's cunning.

They would not be confused or uncoordinated. They would follow whoever can lead them to victory. The other party offering to surrender makes it even easier to choose Zero.

As far as coordination, zero helped kallen and some wanna-be terrorists take out a large fleet of advanced-at-the-time knightmare frames within minutes. Coordination will not be a problem.

[Buffalobiian]

Who are the "black knights" you are referring to. 100 foot soldiers and a general from japan? They don't need to rebuild anything nor reorganize.

There are two forces. Those who fight for Britannia, and those who fight for the UN. The rest are obselete. See all the forces that are fighting for the UN? They're the Black Knights. Whether they are Chinese knightmares or whatever, they belong to the Black Knights. Why? Use logic. There is only one force representing the UN. The Black Knights are not just the Japanese terrorists they once were. They are the entire force the UN has to offer.

No.... they aren't... Zero is the leader........Zero doesn't need to recruit anybody... He has half the world following him.....etc

Take this example: The teaching staff at a school collects evidence and points out that the Principal is corrupted and abuses his rights. They kick him out. The principal tries to explain and deny his charges. How does the rest of the school and local community react? (Don't give me an answer. It's just a thought scenario. Any more would be off topic)

Kallen, Jeremiah, and probably Raksha as well are the only useful members from japan (besides Todou and the other two remaining swordsmen who weren't really that helpful anyway) and they still remain loyal to Zero.

That makes 3. I won't argue about members' usefulness. It's simply not the point.

Zero is a traitor?

According to the majority he is.

...stuff about people not caring about Euphie...

The Euphie case portrays Zero as one whose actions are not exclusively for the benefit of those he leads. It has nothing to do with the princess.




I'll sum up my argument here:




"The Order of the Black Knights, by definition, are the United Federation of Nations' only force. Without them, they have no military prowess. The Order of the Black Knights do not soley consist of a few soldiers and their commanders.

Zero will not have his Black Knights.

If the UN believes the Black Knights' story, they will fall.

If the UN believes Zero's story, they will have a king with a diminished force. Zero's mind will not turn the tables through military conquest. They will fall.

If the UN argues about what to do, Britannia will strike. They will fall."




Conclusion: Zero will not be the same powerful man he was two episodes ago. He may triumph, but not in the same way he intended, which is to crush Britannia through winning territory. The UN will either be a powerless mob or a powerless brain.




I'm done here, unless something else comes up.

[enkoujin]

Who are the "black knights" you are referring to. 100 foot soldiers and a general from japan? They don't need to rebuild anything nor reorganize. Japan is a very small island with a very small population. The only reason they got so far on their own was because of a few gundams and zero's mastermind/geass.

There are little need for "foot soldiers" in the Order of the Black Knights. The only time I actually saw "foot soldiers" were those who first appeared in the debut at the hotel, and those who actually guarded the Chinese Federation embassy. There is more priority for KnightMare pilots and internal operations type of work. I don't know what you consider a "small population", but if Zero had managed to gather one million people to be exiled to the United States of Japan in such a short amount of time, it makes me doubt your idea of a "small population". A one-million people army and workers is enough to do some damage as a "terrorist" organization.

No.... they aren't... Zero is the leader.

Zero is indeed their leader, but it does not relatively make sense how one person can coordinate millions of people for the operations of absolutely everything. How about we take today's President of the United States, strip him of all his secretaries, aides, and ambassadors, and then tell him to take over the tasks of everyone in the organization?

Kallen, Jeremiah, and probably Raksha as well are the only useful members from japan (besides Todou and the other two remaining swordsmen who weren't really that helpful anyway) and they still remain loyal to Zero. I say Raksha because I doubt she cares much about Euphie. All she really seems to care about is make stronger knightmares, take down brittannia, and beat her rival the Duke/Count or whatever he was.

All other members who hold immediate power are not from japan, such as xing-ke who also probably could care less about Euphie, and even if he did, he still has the intelectual capability to first ask Zero for his reasons.

You're forgetting that Todou and his division of the Black Knights have major contributions to the organization. If Toudou leaves, so goes most of the former members of the (nationalistic) Japan Liberation Front.

Put yourself in Xing-Ke's position, without extensive knowledge to Euphie's massacre. Then, you find out from Zero's closest allies that Zero was responsible for the massacre for the people he's fighting for. Xing-Ke is rather chivalrous - just as Suzaku with high moral ground. When Zero had betrayed him by abducting the Tianzi, he was flushed with anger, for his [Zero] dirty and sly tricks. It should also be the same as applied there to the massacre.

Zero doesn't need to recruit anybody... He has half the world following him.

No, he doesn't. The reason as Buffalobiian said, was for oppression against Britannian colonialism and/or imperialism. They just had a recent agreement to join in a collective force to oppose Britannia, but need some assurance whether they are able to or not. The prime stage was set on Japan. If Japan could be liberated, then any country would be able to be liberated as well. Now with the internal rebellions inside the organization, they would lose confidence in the Order of the Black Knights, and pull out of the UN.

What elite BK members? Todou, 2 swordsmen, and a camera man?

What military might? 100-300 foot soldiers?

Zero is a traitor? So he's surrendering his army to reclaim his own country not caring about the rest of the world?

Aforementioned about Toudou above again. Diethardt is VERY important in the organization. He and his division of the organization are basically hackers of broadcasting. Without media attention and propaganda, how do you expect an organization to flourish and continue its hold on its own members? Strong example of this is by Goebbels, the propaganda minister of the NAZI's in the 1930-1940's. Look how strong he held together Nazi Germany together. Censorship and propaganda is very effective, proven by modern society; changes the way we think about an event or an idea.

It is irrelevant who they "believe". They will follow the person who has performed many miracles and is very capable AND willing to take down brittania and fight oppression. I very much doubt they will follow cowards who betray the entire BKE to have their own country back, not caring what happens to the rest of the world.

Evidence of what? Geass? All the better, zero has an ability which gives the BKE a large advantage. Who cares if he can turn on/brainwash them in the future? They know that they want brittannia taken down, and Zero is the only one who can help them do it.

Once it's been revealed that Zero is actually the son of Charles, it's all over for Lelouch. Pictures of him when he was young, the pictures of him in the academy, and the pictures of the secret "laboratory" hidden in the academy, and the fact that Lelouch is missing when big OBK organizations are occuring might be enough proof otherwise. You're also being very ignorant about the fact of fear of the supernatural. In the eyes of ordinary politicians, or even citizens - would you want to work or be lead by a person who can mind control you? Just look at Tamaki when he learned that Zero could have been mind controlling him the whole time.

Most of the world does not care much about Euphie... And again, many have the intelect to listen to Zero's side of the story rather than Britannia's which is obviously propaganda. I doubt the entire world will give up their fight for freedom and take out the only man capable of leading them because he killed a little princess and a few japanese.

Yes, the people around the world do care. If there's an event of genocide in any part of the world, who wouldn't worry? You're forgetting the importance of high positions here. If you were the leader of a country, and one of your diplomats got killed, you would certainly give a damn about it(especially if they were your own family). You're clearly forgetting a very important fact that Britannia is a POWERFUL FASCIST empire - militaristic just as that of any dictatorship government. They rule with an iron fist, especially with the propaganda and censored news.

They would not be confused or uncoordinated. They would follow whoever can lead them to victory. The other party offering to surrender makes it even easier to choose Zero.

As far as coordination, zero helped kallen and some wanna-be terrorists take out a large fleet of advanced-at-the-time knightmare frames within minutes. Coordination will not be a problem.

Coordination is hard now. Zero's identity has been revealed, and Lelouch now, has absolutely no security. No country will want to take in a ringleader of a terrorist group, who has been revealed to be a hypocritical, and a dangerous phoney (except maybe Australia).


lelouch, your arguments are valid, but you base too much on assumption and rely too heavily on Lelouch. If Lelouch couldn't handle leading the entire organization solely by himself or stopping his organization's own internal conspiracies and affairs then how do you expect him to lead a coalition of countries by himself?

Plus, your new abbreviations (OBK - Original Black Knights, BKE - Black Knight Empire) are too confusing, as the original abbreviation for OBK is the Order of the Black Knights, and there was no indication of any "Black Knight Empire", for it is the UN, a semi-supranational organization who have not given up any sovereignty, but to simply devote their military towards the UN to fight against Britannia.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm done here, unless something else comes up.

You guessed it. Something did in fact come up.

Geass Dropped

It doesn't get much clearer than that. We are not subbing it any more, and will not pick it back up no matter how much you fags bitch or whine. We are doing this for a number of reasons, most of which involve us getting tired of the series and everything about it. It is shit. It wasn't good for anything but trainwreck value to begin with, but it's taken that too far recently and we no longer want to have our name associated with it to the point of preferring to be labelled as a group that drops shows. Also, we're tired of the retarded fanbase.

This is dead serious - unlike with certain shitty subs groups, you won't find a "YHBT" message in our staff page, or anywhere else for that matter. Fuck off and download Eclipse's subs.

Original Message



Thoughts? I've been watching Eclipse all this time, but the news still bares some weight.

[Ryllharu]

Well, I would be inclined to believe them about it. The series has been on a bit of a downturn, and gg has always been a volatile group (they broke up before and came back at least partially because of R2). The series has been on a bit of a downturn lately, switching more to the Generic Sunrise Formula (tm).

However, I do not believe it has anything to do with licensing. Eclipse of all groups dropped Slayers after getting a C&D letter from Funi, along with the other quality groups doing it.

As for thoughts? Expect the larger retards to stay in #gg until they figure it out, and expect a lot more retards in #Eclipse on Sundays. Compared to Macross, there's plenty of reason to drop it if they lose interest.

[shinta|hikari]

I've been watching the raws, so I don't really care, but I'm surprised they bashed Code Geass this much just because they want to drop it. I really wonder what is "not shit" for the gg people if this series is.

About the OBK thing, it is really simple.

1)The Order of the Black Knights is the sole military power of the UN (or whatever it is called). This means that all military forces are technically the OBK.

2) Toudou, Ougi and the rest that betrayed Zero represented its leadership before, with Zero at the top. But this does not mean that their betrayal will be accepted by the entire group because...

3) The rest of the Order of the Black Knights (Xing Ke etc) joined because of Zero, not because of these Japanese yahoos.

4) 2 and 3 are the opposing factors that will eventually decide if anyone will follow Zero after this. The rest is just extra consideration, and probably will not affect the outcome in any major way, except of course, if the OBK really did sell Zero out to Schneizel to regain their country, which means that they are the traitors to the UN.

[Kraco]

I'm still not expecting those Japanese yahoos to make such a deal and abandon the UN. That would go heavily against logic. They might try to sell Zero, for sure, for a good price like Japan, but that doesn't mean they would suddenly leave the UN. Because it makes zero sense (no pun here). If they leave the UN and thus the UN would get crippled, Britannia would crush the other nations and then come back to Japan and crush the BK lingering there, alone. So what if there was some deal? What are they going to do? Sue the Emperor?

It would be a victory, after a fashion, for the UN if Japan was reclaimed with a deal. After that they could concentrate their forces on some other fronts. War does not miss one man, the saying goes. Sure, Zero was behind all this originally, but I doubt the other UN leaders would simply surrender to Britannia if Zero disappeared.

[shinta|hikari]

Well, Ougi clearly demanded the exchange, I doubt Ougi is crafty enough to make a tactical and politically advantageous decision in this case. He probably thought the entire OBK thing was a farce and wants to end it all by trading it off with Japan's liberation.

The UN definitely will not surrender, but that is not the issue here. The question is whether the remaining forces in the OBK excluding those under the command of the traitors would still remain with OBK, or view their acts as traitorous. I don't think Xing Ke (and those under his command) is willing to work under anyone other than Zero.

[Kraco]

Nah. Xing Ke is a soldier. If Zero's knightmare had been blown out of the sky, he would have continued the fight. I'm not sure how solid plans they have made in case Zero gets killed or captured by you don't really base a war of survival on the existence of one man. I'm not saying Ougi's betrayal wouldn't make things harder for the UN, though. Nobody wants to work with traitors because the next thing you know they sell you to the enemy as well. But while Ougi might be stupid enough to assume Britannia's word is worth something, I'm quite sure there are people in the BK who would tell him clearly enough they aren't safe as long as Britannia exists at all. Besides, Ougi might get kicked out anyway, considering how close he is to Viletta. And he might even want to retire, himself.

[David75]

To me the key is just:
How important is Zero compared to his lieutenants for the Japanese and the Black Knights.

To me for Japanese and average Black Knigts, there's only Zero who matters.

After all to them where's the difference beetween fake data and truth?
Even if some high rank black knights tell them Zero is a traitor, a britanian prince or whatever, I'm pretty sure they would not believe or even don't care. Zero is a symbol, a reason to go on fighting, they don't care who he is and what he does.
Anyone with proper charisma, clever, good at tactics could replace Lelouch under the mask.... that would not change anything provided the fight goes on and gives significant results...

[RyougaZell]

Well, I would be inclined to believe them about it. The series has been on a bit of a downturn, and gg has always been a volatile group (they broke up before and came back at least partially because of R2). The series has been on a bit of a downturn lately, switching more to the Generic Sunrise Formula (tm).

However, I do not believe it has anything to do with licensing. Eclipse of all groups dropped Slayers after getting a C&D letter from Funi, along with the other quality groups doing it.

As for thoughts? Expect the larger retards to stay in #gg until they figure it out, and expect a lot more retards in #Eclipse on Sundays. Compared to Macross, there's plenty of reason to drop it if they lose interest.

Dunno about it.
After the supposed drop, the irc chan changed its title for the release of the first R2 Picture Drama encoded from Blu-Ray.

[masamuneehs]

i have this to say:

Season 2 has continued a rather excellent anime, even with some terrible plot conveniencnes and unimagineable changes

Rolo was a good character, even if he was the standard 'child assassin who always longed to be loved' archtype.

Schneizel is awesome. He has no Geass, doesn't even know much about it, and still manages to make most people dance on his palm because he has the good grace to leave them the life to dance rather than crush them like insects between his fingers (aka, the man is merciful to a fault, but still the best person in the entire show)

Suzaku is a good guy, and you all suck cock (the bad kind) for hating on him so much.

Lelouch should die in the last episode. This, of course, is what I want, and is only imagineable via the collective IMPOSSIBLE that is the desire to sell more model kits.

I wish every single Knight of Rounds character that isn't Suzaku never existed. Every single one of them. Complete waste of time, energy, and attention, all to sell model kits. They add nothing except revenue to Sunrise's commercial branch, and are like a rapist taking a leak in our eyesockets.

This show might be one of the best in recent history. It's got terrible plot convenience, characters that make no sense at times (see Ohgi post R2 episode 11, Kallen post episode R2 8), and it wants us to buy model kits, but, well, it's still awesome.

Diethard is still the man. Just you wait and see.

Suzaku is also the man. He's like Kallen, without the tits, and with a hundred times the loyalty and potential.

Rolo was the man, but he was introduced halfway, thus his ass is gay cannon fodder, according to the ways of CLAMP.

I'll be providing a blow by blow from here on out. I could care less if any of you actuall read it.

[Kraco]

Suzaku is also the man. He's like Kallen, without the tits, and with a hundred times the loyalty and potential.

We haven't yet seen Kallen betray anybody. Suzaku, however, will betray anyone if he believes it's for some ambigious greater good that is defined best by his own august self. I don't know about the potential. Suzaku has usually had a bit better machine to fight with, with the exception of the last fight, so it's hard to say who's the better one, or who has more potential. But I suppose Suzaku might have more wits, which is also why he has a hundred times less loyalty.

[Idealistic]

Yes... Maybe Lelouch and Suzaku dies... Then Kallen takes care of CC and they fall in love.

[Buffalobiian]

Wonder what surprise we'll get this time.

[Nipponsei] Code Geass R2 Sound Episode 2.zip

[David75]

[Nightspeed] Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 - 20 [H 264 1280x720 AAC][7D56A41E] mkv 351Mb @ Mininova

This is not GG nor Eclipse, but that will do the trick for the time being.

Enjoy!

[masamuneehs]

well, i've been waiting for a release...

watched the broadcast. missed quite a bit (the first half), but thought that, goddamn, Schneizel is such a sexy brilliant bastard. He's gone from doing front line bitch work to throwing a coup d'etat. That's character progression!

Also, seeing the Emperor stew makes me wonder what the hell they're going to do for the next couple of episodes. Oh, and Suzaku was badass, again.

[David75]

I do not think Schneizel has got the edge yet. He even not feel himself up to the task of being the emperor. But by claiming -and for the moment that's only what he does- he's ploting a coup d'état, in a way he thinks he can prevent a real one. True there's Suzaku he left going, but I guess he knows Suzaku can't kill the emperor for many reasons including the presence of the current Knight of One.

So Lelouch plans on isolating himself from the world and taking Charles with him, for eternity? I hope he didn't forget the chess board, they could try to play every possible game for a start. That's a lot, but with eternity you have time.
Oh wait, but they'll die from dehydratation first... well Lelouch only if Charles can not die.

But didn't I think that the place they are is in their minds? Yes probably. So that means that the bombing of the doors is useless. Charles can be extracted anytime.
Even if it was an actual place, the empire still knows what to do to get there, so they only need the will to do what necessary for that.
Oh, and there's not just one way of getting there, Lelouch apparently only destroyed one.
So no matter how you look at it, no they are not trapped somewhere they can't escape or no one can extract them from...

then there's the marianne inside anya thing. I do not buy it, in a way I understand GG on that particular plot twist.

Regarding the head of the BK betting on Lelouch's actual death, it's quite dangerous, because should Lelouch come back as Zero...

Anyway, we'll see next time.

[shinta|hikari]

The bet they did was risky but not foolish. Diethard explained it all. The danger there lies more on the chance that other OBK members (Xing Ke, Kaguya) finding out about the lie, which I believe they already did.

Lelouch and the emperor are obviously not trapped forever, since the series won't progress if that were the case. There still needs to be a Lelouch and C.C. reunion, and knowing Sunrise, maybe even a Lelouch and Nunnally one. I personally think that they are trapped in an actual "place" inside the door, but possibilities of escape should not be that difficult to come up with.

The Marianne inside Anya thing is not that far-fetched. A number of people already commented so before, and I personally considered it too. They will probably provide a more detailed explanation later as to how it is possible. I am betting it has something to do with Marianne's geass, like a mind transfer or something.

I realize now that Lelouch is capable of killing the emperor if he gains mastery of his geass. I hope that is what happens, or maybe Marianne can handle that role.

I am so happy Suzaku got his ass handed to him twice in such a short time.

Kallen's actions were so half-assed that they were stupid. If she was going to pretend, she should do it properly (not defending Zero in such an unconvincing manner is one), unless she is sincerely interacting with a bunch of traitors in such a manner, which is even more stupid.

EDIT: And I can't believe I didn't mention this before the edit...

C.C. IS BACK!
C.C. IS BACK!
C.C. IS BACK!

I knew she would be, but C.C. IS BACK, in all her haughty, dry, and tsundere sexy glory!