Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2

[David75]

Caught up with the eps.
As usual, the developments were quite unexpected.

Fun question: would Nina's bomb be able to kill a Geass Witch? After all, everything just "dissapears" into void. Or so it seems. So I was just wondering.

Regarding future developments, seeing Lelouch at the lowest of his strenght, I guess we can think he will find a way of gaining momentum again. We'll see.

I noted that phrase by Schneizel too... So Schneizel always was stronger than Lelouch but still fears him. Interresting. I guess Lelouch is a very important key to Charles plot....

[KrayZ33]

Actually the Nordic goddess was called Freja, but who cares, right? Odin is Oden, Thor is Tor... Could everyone who thinks they know something about nordic mythology stop with their halfassed info?

ya and you should stop first because she wasn't called freja

she is/was also called Freya or Freyja...Freja is just 1 of like 20 forms....
go to wikipedia or other, similiar sides

Regarding future developments, seeing Lelouch at the lowest of his strenght, I guess we can think he will find a way of gaining momentum again. We'll see.

I doubt that he'll be able to do much... at least he won't be able to build something up again, I guess he will wait for the right moment to appear and avenge his beloved ones personally

[Ryllharu]

Fun question: would Nina's bomb be able to kill a Geass Witch? After all, everything just "disappears" into void. Or so it seems. So I was just wondering.

Same laws as Mnemosyne?

Highlight my lovely mild-spoiler poem:
[Neither bullets to the brain,
the slicing of a vein,
nor disintegration via jet plane,
will kill, despite the pain.]

We've seen some nasty flashbacks of C.C. getting abused. Unless it sends her to a different dimension, I believe our green haired witch will be alright (sooner or later).

[animus]

Actually the Nordic goddess was called Freja, but who cares, right? Odin is Oden, Thor is Tor... Could everyone who thinks they know something about nordic mythology stop with their halfassed info?

Nitpicking about a transliteration to English in a Japanese anime thread makes you seem really cool.

[lelouch]

I think deithard, ougi, todou and the rest need to remember who exactly it was that saved them from public execution in the beginning of the series. If they were merely "pawns", why risk his life to save merely 5 or 6 "pawns"? I find it a bit irritating how unstable the OBK is that they would make their decision so quickly after speaking with the enemy.

Deithard isn't exactly japanese either. Who cares if Lelouch has a geass? He didn't geass everyone into hating Britannia, everyone always has, and the BK's goal is to eliminate britannia, which lelouch has been doing excellently. If I was lelouch and I got ahold of the OBK again, I would have everyone in that conference room be put in the front lines without weapons. If there were any survivors, I would have them violently raped up the butt.

Anyways, I don't think the OBK was a HUGE factor in the BK empire. We know that C.C., Kallen (who has a gundam now), xing-ke (also very powerful), and Orange-kun (who now has that super-badass-sutherland-gundam) are still loyal to Lelouch, and the only real big losses are toudou + the other two swordsmen and diethard . If those people I just mentioned managed to regroup with Lelouch, I think they would be just fine as the rest of the BK empire is probably still loyal to lelouch and views the OBK to be the real traitors. I am hoping for this to happen, as another Death Note ending would be quite unsatisfying for me.

[vejita613]

I think deithard, ougi, todou and the rest need to remember who exactly it was that saved them from public execution in the beginning of the series. If they were merely "pawns", why risk his life to save merely 5 or 6 "pawns"? I find it a bit irritating how unstable the OBK is that they would make their decision so quickly after speaking with the enemy.

Actually I dont think deithard was part of the group that got rescued, but you make a valid point. Then again, even after he saved them, there were still alot of doubts on him (probably from the first black rebellion). I guess all the lies and secrets must have reached a boiling point.

[Buffalobiian]

Anyways, I don't think the OBK was a HUGE factor in the BK empire. We know that C.C., Kallen (who has a gundam now), xing-ke (also very powerful), and Orange-kun (who now has that super-badass-sutherland-gundam) are still loyal to Lelouch, and the only real big losses are toudou + the other two swordsmen and diethard . If those people I just mentioned managed to regroup with Lelouch, I think they would be just fine as the rest of the BK empire is probably still loyal to lelouch and views the OBK to be the real traitors. I am hoping for this to happen, as another Death Note ending would be quite unsatisfying for me.

You forgot that when they established the league of nations, a condition was that everybody was to relinquish their military power, with the OBK as the sole military power for hire between them. It's likely that Xing-Ke's army is officially under the banner of the OBK.

[lelouch]

The OBK is no longer a "military power". They agreed to stand down in return for nihon. Zero is the rightful leader of the BK empire. Just because one section seceded does not mean the rest will follow. It wasn't the OBK who came up with the genius tactics to battle britannia, it was zero, therefor the empire has no reason to follow the OBK. They don't present any real value other than a small faction of force and knowledge of media production.



edit: I feel weird every time I write "BK empire". Makes me think of burger king...

[Buffalobiian]

They don't present any real value other than a small faction of force and knowledge of media production.

The OBK isn't a small military faction. What we saw in Tokyo Settlement was simply their forces which they could spare to attack it. Don't forget that they had to create a diversion in Xing Ke's command. To fool the Knight of One, they must have had to summon a massive diversion, not just an arm or leg.

Further more, the OBK is now the only martial power comparable to that of Britannia. The United Federation of Nations (the official name, I'll call it UN for short), gave up all their powers, whether by destruction or donation to the OBK when they joined, and are now useless martially. Their only power was in their unity, and when one was attacked, they would request the action of the OBK. Hence, should the OBK decide to let Britannia have it's way as long as they get Japan back, the UN is up for grabs by Britannia, and should be pretty helpless, with or without Zero.

While the core members of the OBK have turned on Zero, it doesn't mean Zero has lost full control. Remember how all the nations have given up their military? That includes the Chinese Federation. That means that the force Xing Ke commands now is actually part of the OBK. In all likelihood, they have not heard the news, and should Zero say a few words, me may still have them under his control. Xing Ke, much like Diethard, shouldn't be affected by the status of Lelouch as one of royalty, nor his special powers, or his involvement in Euphemia's incident.

In fact, the only reason Diethard turned was that he wanted to finish his masterpiece, and should he resist in a room filled with a dozen OBK, he would have been lock up.

[Buffalobiian]

Second OP is out!

[Nipponsei] Code Geass R2 OP2 Single - WORLD END [FLOW].zip

N.B: [Flow] was the same group that performed Colours (R1, OP1)

[RyougaZell]

Based on the preview, and Kaguya's expression besides Tianzi, we will probably see a big breakup among the OBK next episode. And I do hope (but thats just me) that the scene where Kallen approaches Ougi is to slap him and leave.

[lelouch]

The OBK isn't a small military faction. What we saw in Tokyo Settlement was simply their forces which they could spare to attack it. Don't forget that they had to create a diversion in Xing Ke's command. To fool the Knight of One, they must have had to summon a massive diversion, not just an arm or leg.

Chunks of the infantry could have and probably did come from other countries of the UN.

Further more, the OBK is now the only martial power comparable to that of Britannia. The United Federation of Nations (the official name, I'll call it UN for short), gave up all their powers, whether by destruction or donation to the OBK when they joined, and are now useless martially. Their only power was in their unity, and when one was attacked, they would request the action of the OBK. Hence, should the OBK decide to let Britannia have it's way as long as they get Japan back, the UN is up for grabs by Britannia, and should be pretty helpless, with or without Zero.

I think we have a mix-up. Does "OBK" stand for "Original Black Knights" as the black knight army that existed before joining with India, China, etc... ? If so, then at this point the "OBK" are quite insignificant. The bulk of the "infantry knightmares" Can come from China, India, and the rest of the UN. Japan is a very very small part of the world, and can't provide a relatively large amount of force other than gundams and generals. The only gundams that were lost were the swordsmen, and the only general lost was toudou. The UN didn't join the Black Knight Empire (BKE) for kicks and mere unity. They did it because they want Britannia taken down. The leaders of the BKE are the OBK. However, the leader of the OBK is Zero. If the OBK ceasefire in return for japan, the UN isn't just going to stand around or agree, their goal remains the same, and the person who is solely responsible for an extraordinarily large amount of success is Zero. Xing-ke could care less about japan, he wants Britannia destroyed, along with the rest of the world. Rather than the BKE/UN seeing Zero as a traitor/fraud to the OBK, they will see the OBK to be a traitor to the BKE/Zero.

[Tyreal]

Xing-ke could care less about japan, he wants Britannia destroyed, along with the rest of the world. Rather than the BKE/UN seeing Zero as a traitor/fraud to the OBK, they will see the OBK to be a traitor to the BKE/Zero.

Will they still think the same after learning that Zero is actually a prince of Britannia though? I wouldn't be surprised if they remove Zero from his position of power or at the very least start keeping a VERY close eye on him in the future. That is even IF he returns to the BKE/UN.

[lelouch]

Will they still think the same after learning that Zero is actually a prince of Britannia though? I wouldn't be surprised if they remove Zero from his position of power or at the very least start keeping a VERY close eye on him in the future. That is even IF he returns to the BKE/UN.

Please read my previous 3 posts, they go over this matter.

[Buffalobiian]

Chunks of the infantry could have and probably did come from other countries of the UN.



I think we have a mix-up. Does "OBK" stand for "Original Black Knights" as the black knight army that existed before joining with India, China, etc... ?

To my knowledge, the abbreviation OBK has always stood for (the) Order of the Black Knights for as long as it's been used in this thread.

If so, then at this point the "OBK" are quite insignificant. The bulk of the "infantry knightmares" Can come from China, India, and the rest of the UN. Japan is a very very small part of the world, and can't provide a relatively large amount of force other than gundams and generals. The only gundams that were lost were the swordsmen, and the only general lost was toudou. The UN didn't join the Black Knight Empire (BKE) for kicks and mere unity. They did it because they want Britannia taken down. The leaders of the BKE are the OBK. However, the leader of the OBK is Zero. If the OBK ceasefire in return for japan, the UN isn't just going to stand around or agree, their goal remains the same, and the person who is solely responsible for an extraordinarily large amount of success is Zero. Xing-ke could care less about japan, he wants Britannia destroyed, along with the rest of the world. Rather than the BKE/UN seeing Zero as a traitor/fraud to the OBK, they will see the OBK to be a traitor to the BKE/Zero.

Rather, I'm confused at your use of terms. Firstly, "gundam" shouldn't be in there at all. Both Sunrise, both mecha, but please don't use it.

Secondly, BKE. Is that your abbreviation for the military power (originally, and still is) called the Order of the Black Knights in this thread, or the colaboration of nations, which is called (in the anime) the United Federation of Nations?

One thing that should be noted is that the nations did not join the Black Knights as such. It's a unity of nations with the common goal of a world without oppression. Japan is one of such states/nations, not a superpower leader. Taking down Britannia was part of the intention, only because it opposed their views.

I've said this above, but I'll try to make it more clear this time. the Black Knights are the military power shared by all of the UN. It requires a majority vote to utilize them, and each nation has no power in itself.

The core members of the Black Knights are loyal to Japan, above all else. Should they betray and settle down with only Japan, the UN is left powerless. Note that this means Japan leaves the UN, taking away with it all military power.

I agree with you in that, on a global scale, the Black Knights will be seen as having betrayed the UN. However, even in that situation, that leaves Zero commanding half the world's nations with no forces, save Xing Ke's.

Furthermore, remember what they said about this battle being a "decisive one". Should the UN free Japan, all members would request and support the liberation of each other from the Britannian Empire. Should they fail, however, the UN's morale would crumble, and the nations surrender, or form an agreement with Britannia to save itself from unnecessary casualties.

Now that their leading force, the Black Knights, "form an agreement with Britannia", and agree to keep their award (Japan) and retreat (ie, leave the UN to Britannia), what position are the United Nations left in?

[lelouch]

@buffalobiian:

I understand what you are trying to say, but you are not looking at things logically. Just because a small island from the BKE decides to secede, you honestly think all of the other countries will just say "oh well, maybe next time?". As long as the mastermind behind the entire plan is still alive and well, they will continue to fight oppression regardless of whether or not japan seceded or not. Sure the Original Black Knights are the "leaders" of the entire army, and by ordering a ceasefire the rest of the army must "legally" back down as well, but then again since when have the Black Knights done things according to the way they are "supposed to"?

I understand your point of view, but you are looking too closely at the details thereby confusing yourself. Basically you are saying "because japan no longer wishes to fight, every single other country will back down from the fight against oppression just because japan said so."

[Buffalobiian]

@buffalobiian:

I understand what you are trying to say, but you are not looking at things logically. Just because a small island from the BKE decides to secede, you honestly think all of the other countries will just say "oh well, maybe next time?". As long as the mastermind behind the entire plan is still alive and well, they will continue to fight oppression regardless of whether or not japan seceded or not. Sure the Original Black Knights are the "leaders" of the entire army, and by ordering a ceasefire the rest of the army must "legally" back down as well, but then again since when have the Black Knights done things according to the way they are "supposed to"?

I understand your point of view, but you are looking too closely at the details thereby confusing yourself. Basically you are saying "because japan no longer wishes to fight, every single other country will back down from the fight against oppression just because japan said so."

What I am saying is:

"Japan ceases to fight, and takes with it the means of other countries to fight."

Japan takes away both the morale and military might from the UN when the Black Knights decided on what they did.

The UN relinquished all military power when they joined. Should the want to break and reform their armies, it would take time. It's not Britannia's motto to "make the strong wait as the weak recover".

Secondly, I've mentioned that this battle was decisive. If Japan can be liberated, Britannia can be overthrown. If the operation fails, then the UN will crumble. Not "maybe next time", but "it just can't be done". Seeing the strong fall, or betray them is very demoralising.

And what did Japan do? It betrayed the UN to save it's ass. Again, where does that leave the UN?

(btw, I just finished editing my previous post just as you posted yours)

[lelouch]

You are making it sound like toudou and crew are the leaders of the Black Knights. Who gives them permission to "relinquish" the black knight army as you put it. The only people who are relinquishing anything is those from japan, a very very small island, and probably not even everyone from japan. The leader of the Black Knights is Zero. It is not toudou, not diethard, nor the original crew. It is Zero and Zero only. As long as he is alive, black knight members from across the world shall follow. You are somehow getting the impersonation that toudou and the japanese are the leaders of the black knights, when in fact they are far from it.

[darkmetal505]

Here's a question:

Why were they trying to kill Lelouch? If I remember correctly, Schnizel asked the Diethard and the crew to hand Lelouch over to him. Since Schnizel made no attempt to stop them from shooting Lelouch, I guess he denied Oghi's offer.

This makes me think that he'll probably pick up Lelouch in order to get reasons behind the intentions of creating the OBK.

Another thing, Lelouch's Geass might evolve. I forgot the conditions of that happening though. Does it just amplify the power, or does it actually change?

[shinta|hikari]

Amplification is the norm, but amplification is in itself change. It will still be an absolute obedience geass, but maybe the minor rules will be altered, such as range, effectiveness, and re-usability.

I was thinking the same thing. Schneizel clearly said that he wanted Zero to be "handed over to him", not filled with holes. I think Schneizel declined the offer to return Japan, and the Japanese idiots simply decided to kill Zero and continue their fight on their own.