This is very true. I couldn't agree more.Originally Posted by Ryllharu
It's unexpected to me that Zero held the Empress as hostage. I thought Zero would help Xing Ke with the rebellion >.<.
This is very true. I couldn't agree more.
It's unexpected to me that Zero held the Empress as hostage. I thought Zero would help Xing Ke with the rebellion >.<.
<3 Tessa-chan! <3 Lucifus! ....chotto mate.
Question is now, what Lelouch intends to do. I can't remember if he wants to destroy the Federation, or take control of it (brain's fried from exams, and I'm not even half way through). Either way, now that he's out of Area 11 and fighting on the world stage, he'll need to gather his resources. He's got backing from India right now, who themselves want to break away from the Chinese. Should the they fall apart right here now, India would have no more incentive to provide any more aid. Of course, should his plan be actually helping Xing Ke and his men, and the Empress recognises that after taking a position of power, then he'll be able to play with Britannia.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
He takes the empress with him, cast the geass upon her and make her his slave.
like he did to the chinese messanger maybe. Thats what I thought he will do when he said "I'll take the empress with me"... but I'm pretty sure Zero will shock me once again and do something I'd never think about.
With the Chinese Federation at his side, a lot of things can happen ^^.
Well.. I doubt however that Lelouch is *that* cruel towards a small child.. especially someone like her.
Someone like Nunally, especially.
As of recent, it seems Lelouch has become more of a nice guy, with his new values considered. His invitation to Kallen shows this.
Peace.
Yet his voice becomes more and more like that of a maniac.. which I totally like btw
his laughter at the end of this episode is what I seek in anime! I feel a chill everytime when I see someone acting all mighty and superior
poor Empress Tianzi though, don't hurt the lolis Lelouch! ya hear me!?
uhm btw.. I have a question: On which side is Russia in this war of the 3 big nations? They can't possibly be neutral... and it would be odd if they joined the EU forces because of political stuff etc.
Well, ok its a fictional "world" but I really wonder what they are doing, Russia is a big country it should be strong, they might lack economical strength but manpower alone can do a lot of things
Last edited by KrayZ33; Mon, 06-09-2008 at 10:25 AM.
Russia is part of the E.U.
Some things here. First off its very likely the lens was developed to help Mao in the past. Next C.C. specifically stated that once your Geass gets to strong it may no longer work. This tells me that Mao's geass likely became to strong for the lens to prevent it and likely when C.C. left Mao or while with him she squirreled it away somewhere.
Last edited by DDBen; Mon, 06-09-2008 at 02:06 PM.
I can't believe someone started this up again...
Mao's Geass never required any kind of visual effort like Lelouch's and the Emperor's requires. His is -scratch that-, was more like Rollo's. Look back at the Mao episodes and remember when he was in the Academy library. He could hear the thoughts of everyone in the place, and was as usual, disgusted by their mindless chatter and concentrated back on C.C.'s voice. And before you even say that it had gotten stronger...there were flashbacks from when C.C. was caring for him when he was young...and it was exactly the same then. Maybe the range was less, maybe he could shut them out, but it was still purely based on proximity.
You two are still looking way too much into it. It's just an opaque contact lens from the outside that Lelouch can see through (like a two-way mirror) and it does not allow the visual frequency range light that Lelouch's (and the Emperor's) Geass requires to activate.
Your assuming that the contact only blocks a visual aspect of the Geass and there is no reason to assume thats actually true. Its possible its more like Kryptonite is to Superman and being the Geass regardless of how it works is manifested in the eye that its simply that your applying it directly to it and suppressing the powers of it no matter what they are or how they work.
Also your assumptions on the past mean little. Those flashbacks could either be before the contact was made or after his Geass became to powerful to be suppressed by it so it means nothing.
edit:
Also note glasses are not enough to block Lelouch's Geass. So there is no reason to presume a normal contact lens would do anything to reduce its effect. Also Why would it stop working if his Geass got more powerful if it was blocking in the manor your claiming that simply doesn't work logically.
The simple fact that Mao's DID NOT WORK THAT WAY. I do not know how to make this any more clear or to convey it to you any other way. It's also clear as day from the flashbacks that it never did. There is absolutely zero proof that CC ever made a fucking worthless (given the way his worked) contact to Mao. I'm invalidating that claim with evidence from last season.
As to whether the contact works the way I believe (following the Keep It Simple Stupid principle) or if it is as you believe, and is some magical (in the context of the way the "thought elevators" work) mystery material, we can't say for sure. Three things will occur:
1. A later episode will prove me correct in that it's blocking some wavelengths of light (assuming Geasses work that way).
2. A later episode will prove you correct in that it is in fact some fantastical material that actually suppresses the capacity of a Geass-type ability from working.
3. The most likely scenario, is that the series will never touch on the contact lens again, because it was just a stupid contact lens that works the same damn way sunglasses or the helmet does (i.e. Geass can't be seen, Geass doesn't work), and the end result will be that the both of us are looking far more deeply into a complete non-issue.
So for the time being, drop it. There is no proof, so let it go until the series presents us with the slightest of information that would allow us to reassess where were are and take a renewed stance on the issue.
We've been through it once before (for longer than we had to), we do not need to revisit it now, and if it so happens to fall that I have been wrong and you are correct, so be it, I will eat my words.
EDIT: Lelouch's Geass goes through regular glasses because you can see through them. Enough to see the symbol in his eye, enough for it to do whatever mumbo-jumbo it does (be it some other wavelength of light, the effort of seeing it at all, whatever). Mao didn't need that. If they were in his range, he heard their thoughts.
Last edited by Ryllharu; Mon, 06-09-2008 at 04:02 PM.
@Ryllharu
There is proof its not a simple contact lens C.C. says it flat out when Lelouch says its probably not just a simple contact lens. That was this season and your right we went over that before the fact remains is its not exactly what your saying based on in show dialog.
Also I think its moronic to insist people stop discussing anything that doesn't have a clear answer this is a discussion topic if you don't care to participate in talking about or speculations about a certain theory don't but do not sit there and complain people dare discuss something.
You made your edit longer so let me further address it. First off we know knowthing about how Mao's Geass fully worked its all assumptions. The result was he heard or at least we are shown it as him "hearing" peoples thoughts. If we want to make this a visual Geass its pretty easy. He isn't HEARING anything instead his eye's cause him to see peoples thoughts by reading the electrical waves given off by the persons brain. The reason for the headphones/glasses which only somewhat dampened the effect is that the waves from his eye's that read the ambient brain waves floating around are somehow blocked by his skull so they come out of the holes in his head namely his ears and the eye's producing them but not anywhere else.
Initially the pulse that was put out by his eye's wasn't strong enough to also go out of his ears so placing a contact on them to dampen the waves from exiting his eye's was enough to block his Geass.
Also there is a strong possibility that the earphones did NOTHING to block his geass as they were mainly in place so he could listen to C.C's voice and as such its very possible the only important thing for muffling his Geass was the glasses. If this is true instead then it makes perfect sense that the contact could be used to block his ability despite how you think it works..
Last edited by DDBen; Mon, 06-09-2008 at 04:25 PM.
@DDBen - I think you misunderstood Ryll's point about seeing through the contact lens. Its about other people seeing through them, not Lelouch, obviously. I cannot begin to understand how you can assume the opposite from the way it was stated. He even mentioned the helmet, for crying out loud.
About the thing about stopping discussion... Discussion is all well and good, but all this has been said before. Repeating it here is a waste of space. Still, its not like its a crime so I do not necessarily oppose it.
As you say, it has been mentioned that there is something special about the lens (which may very well be the simple fact that Lelouch can see through them without letting the geass affect other people), and it may do something to inhibit Lelouch's geass, but I side with Ryll that it is highly unlikely that Mao's geass will be affected in the least by such a device.
Peace.
Don't be pedantic about "hears thoughts" versus "mind's eye" or however you want to describe telepathy. Frankly, I know that that kind of debate is beneath you (as evident by our previous debates).
I might as well cover these in reverse order:
I never said the headphones did anything to block his Geass and you are putting words in my mouth (so to speak...) saying I did. It was very obvious what the headphones did. They distracted Mao from all the other shit flowing into his head. He concentrated only on her voice, remembering that he couldn't hear her thoughts either, and focused on that feeling, effectively blocking all the other voices.
All of that above about how Mao's Geass works is pure speculation on your part, and quite the leap as well. The sunglasses Mao wore were far more likely (again...KISS, Occam's Razor, whatever) to only serve the purpose of hiding his eyes because you could see that he had a Geass and normal people would immediately think, "WTF is wrong with that guy's eyes!"
I am not basing my own speculations on how Mao's Geass worked on baseless facts as you are, but solely on what we've seen in flashbacks with C.C. He "hears" the thoughts when his eyes are shut tight, snuggling up to C.C. for warmth, obviously still suffering from the intrusion of the thoughts he "hears." These are facts, plain as day, visible in the episodes and from Mao's own mouth when he was discussing his powers with Lelouch. Which by the way, he usually wore glasses during, even when he was making quite the show of revealing every little tidbit out of the deepest of thoughts from Shirley, Lelouch, and Suzaku.
I'm not trying to quell discussion, but as shinta said, there's really nothing new here to discuss. We've done this all before, multiple times, and this particular episode failed to bring any new information that would give either of us a reason to bring it back up. I'm still utterly confused that Splash brought it up at all, and the only reason I am arguing with you again is because you and Splash brought up Mao. I ignored Splash's first post about it, but when you supported it...I took the bait.
Last edited by Ryllharu; Mon, 06-09-2008 at 05:14 PM.
When I used the term 'geass Inhibitor', I did not want to suggest that it may be used to protect oneself AGAINST the effects of different geasses.I just went back and reread the earlier discussion from episode 3 and realized that the term had already been used differently. I just mean that it suppresses the geass powers of the one wearing it.
I am sure we can all agree that for a geass to activate, it seems that something is triggered from within the eye. This has been consistent with all geass users. Eye CONTACT on the other hand is definitely NOT a requirement and I already understand that. I believe that the lense inhibits this triggering event of a geass or suppresses it, if it is activated.
That does not mean that one can simply protect themselves by wearing that same lense. We do not always know how the triggered geass affects another person. In Lelouch and the Emperor's case, it requires eyesight, but for Mao and Rollo, it seems to be some other effect.
Also, we do not know what kinds mental effects a triggered geass has on a user. I believe that the reason this lense is 'special' is because it possibly protects against any mental stress that a user might experience when a geass is activated (given the geass is not too powerful).
The visor of Zero's mask seems to be made of a material that allows Lelouch to see through it but at the same time, prevent the geass effects from being transferred to another person. Why couldn't the lense be just made of this material instead. What need is there of a 'special' lense?
Also, it is far too convenient to have a lense that works for just the eye contact based geasses, unless there is nothing 'special' about it and it is just like the mask visor.
What I was saying was, that if we assume Jeremiah has an artifical Geass, then it makes sense that the thing covering his eye is possibly keeping him sane.
Ok lets assume his current glasses are to prevent people from seeing the Geass in his eye's and have nothing to do with him attempting to dampen his ability.
Now first off I never said Mao's ability was based on line of sight I said it was based in his eye's which is a large difference. If the contact inhibits the actual geass instead of merely blocking his ability to see the other person then it could in fact be used to negate his Geass. So actually its very important in regards to this discussion. There were statements made about how they don't see the contact being able to prevent his Geass in turn I provided a method that would allow that to take place.
Also you ARE trying to quell discussion. Splash made a post that showed he wanted to discuss this. He was not involved in the previous discussion and as such by providing information from the previous discussion it allows him to respond and further the discussion with a new set of eye's. You on the other hand instead of presenting your opinion and views decided it was important to state your opinion as fact. This being exactly what you have declared I've done in the past. You managed to do this with no solid evidence and instead merely used your opinion of what a past scene means.
Now lets look at what was being discussed and the actual parts of it that matter in the discussion you ignored. Splash agree or not was calling the contact a inhibitor and not a filter. First off we both agree its some form of inhibitor based on previous discussion. Your view is it inhibits the Geass purely by preventing the line of sight between the Geass and the target to take place by filtering it out. My view is the inhibitor actually prevents the Geass from even activating or suppresses a constantly active Geass.
So if my view is correct and it prevents the activation of the Geass there is ZERO reason it wouldn't work on ANY Geass and as such it easily could have come from then trying to suppress Mao's Geass. If yours is correct on the other hand it couldn't be used to prevent Mao's Geass because as we agree his doesn't work based on line of sight. If you wanted to continue discussion you would have presented a theory of your own as to how C.C. got the contact instead of attacking mine without ANY actual proof its wrong. You simply feel your right and nobody else has the right to discuss something you disagree with. Thats flat out the wrong attitude for a discussion forum.
I was then asked to provide a reason why my theory could possibly be correct I've done so. You may disagree with it but there is no proof its wrong either so I'm free to state it. If I post anything thats blatantly wrong and you have evidence to prove it wrong then its indeed dropped but this is certainly not one of those cases.
@ Splash!
Seems we were on the same page about that from the start because I agree with everything you just said.
Edit 2: Another possible crazy Theory.
Its fully possible Lelouch's mother had a Geass similar to Lelouch and it was her contact that he was given. This is what I find to be the likeliest correct theory if the lens is simply a filter and not a universal inhibitor.
Fact 1: Someone wiped Cordelia's memories and had her step away from guard duty that night and for her to be unable to remember even under Geass this was most likely done by another Geass. Its possible this was just the emperor but the incident seems to specific for that to be likely.
Fact 2: Nannaly isn't physically blind she's mentally blind(possibly the same is true about her legs not sure on that). Its entirely possible that if her mother had a Geass she used it on Nannaly before being shot to death telling her something along the lines of "forget what you've seen tonight and never see the evils of the world again." causing her to be unable to see from that point forward.
Last edited by DDBen; Mon, 06-09-2008 at 05:55 PM.
Let's ignore the rest because it's only going to continue to boil down to a he said, she said kind of argument based entirely off semantics and changing the definition of using eyes versus sight (though I must say I am curious to what the difference really is, that part of the post didn't make a whole lot of sense).
Now for something different, interesting, and not played out that piqued my interest. This is certainly something that has not gotten enough discussion. There was also a scene in a very recent episode where C.C. was talking into thin air and verbally addressing Marianne again.
Fact 1: Wrong. Check Episode 24-25. When Lelouch uses his Geass on Cornelia, he asked her directly. She responded that Marianne herself (Lelouch's mother), directed Cornelia to leave and the guard to be lowered (25:43). This report is bolstered by Orange-kun's account of the incident that day to Viletta (see Picture Book 4.33). No Geass needed, Cornelia idolized Marianne so much she would never disobey her orders. They show still shots right after (25:49 and 25:53) of Marianne giving Cornelia the order, from the look on Cornelia's face.
Fact 2: This one I actually think is quite possible, though we disagree on the reasons. Nunnally is most certainly traumatized by the events, clearly blocked them out, or at the least, appears to have blocked them out. However, the one inconsistency is her eyes. Nunnally's eyes were very much open as she laid underneath Marianne's body. Lelouch's flashbacks of that day early on show this. Yet later, when she's being examined at some hospital, Nunnally's eyes are bandaged. There should not have been another attack in between the time the Lelouch found the two of them (you can see guards streaming into the palace in the scene), yet her eyes were damaged? Either it is part of the mental trauma, or Nunnally is very good at faking it. Maybe it is a combination of them both.
While I do not believe that Marianne had a Geass, I do believe she was a "witch" just like C.C. If some of the strange things Marianne is cited for, exceptional piloting skills, coming from the commoners to become one of the Empresses, etc, don't tip us off in one way or another, C.C. talking to her, though she is long since dead certainly should.
EDIT: As for the reason she didn't know anymore when Lelouch kept demanding of her, that's simply because she didn't know. Clovis was the exact same way, and a few other minor characters from time to time.
While it is possible that the Emperor could have rewritten all of this after brazenly killing his own wife, I'd rather believe it leads to some conclusion about how mysterious Marianne is rather than him going through that effort. It's more like she knew for certain it was her time to die.
Last edited by Ryllharu; Mon, 06-09-2008 at 06:52 PM.
We've seen C.C. revive from bullet wounds, but does anybody remember how long it took? For if Marianne was a witch, it is entirely possible that a terrorist attack of that caliber didn't kill her. The only complication here is that the Emperor (or was it Schneizel) ordered her body to be removed.
Also, to the comment somewhere before about V.V wanting C.C. dead in season one, that isn't necessarily the case. It is true that they've placed a lot of importance on capturing C.C. this season, while before they gave an order of dead-or-alive. However, from last season, we've seen on their computer files that the research team knows C.C was present during one of the Word Wars (I'm guessing WW1 due to the trenches). That hints that they already know of her immortality. With that in mind, a dead-or-alive order makes things easier for captors, while the scientists/nobles involved know their test subject will sit right up again.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
The difference is simple look at Rollo his Geass creates a store of energy at the tip of his eye and then releases a field of a certain size. Anyone in that field is on pause. His Geass is still in his eye and thats where its released from but it has nothing to do with him seeing anyone. Its very likely Mao had a very similar Geass in that his created a field that grew in size as his Geass became more powerful. So lets say the contact is a inhibitor. If his normal range is 10 feet and the inhibitor reduces that range by 20 feet his Geass would seem turned off. However if his range leveled up to 30 feet even with the inhibitor he would retain a 10 foot range.
Now for something different, interesting, and not played out that piqued my interest. This is certainly something that has not gotten enough discussion. There was also a scene in a very recent episode where C.C. was talking into thin air and verbally addressing Marianne again.
I agree that took place I also feel there is more to it. Even if ordered to leave her presence there is no chance she would have left the area entirely regardless of orders.
trauma certainly is a option but a boring one. The reason for the bandages could have been when they found her she had her eye's open but couldn't see so they simply bandaged them with medication to let them recover. Then after the treatment failed and the examination proved it wasn't a physical problem they gave up.
If she was a witch she couldn't have been shot to death in the first place C.C. has shown that much several times over. I think its much more likely she was contracted with C.C.. Its even possible the Emperor just wanted to get close enough to her to find out where the witches were hiding and when he did he massacred them and her to cover his tracks.
I also don't really believe C.C. would be talking to Marianne the way she does if she was still alive. It is somewhat possible she's imprisoned and witches communicate telepathically though as C.C. did know what V.V. was doing when he kidnapped Nannaly.
I retain that she couldn't know absolutely nothing else. She wouldn't have gone far enough away on her own that she wouldn't have heard the gunshots and carnage that took place that night. Clovis on the other hand really didn't know and he wasn't present when it took place so there is no reason he would know anything he wasn't told.
C.C. seems particularly special. I do not mean to insinuate that Marianne was like C.C.
The series has shown C.C.'s memories a few times, and aside from Jupiter (which is connected to the Emperor's plan), the other planet than looks like it's covered in gears, etc, they often show a lot of girls dresses as priestesses with the Geass symbol on their forehead, just like C.C. They also show a church with the same symbol getting rocks thrown at it and nuns with the symbol stand outside, and a few others.
C.C. is more than that, because aside from being immortal (she's been around since WWI era at the least) C.C. also has the Geass-shaped stigmata just below her left breast. Lelouch has seen it when they were in the cave, and a C.C. flashback has shown her in a shallow pond with it (can't remember the episode of that one, probably the same landslide/cave episode).
But that brings up another point, if C.C. is related to this "witches church," where did all the others go? They don't share the same immortality that C.C. obviously possesses.
So I am speculating that Marianne was one of these other "witches" of the long-gone church.
Code Geass + Contact Lenses = serious business.
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