He will probably break, unless C.C. can manage to piece him back together and be his raison de etre.
He will probably break, unless C.C. can manage to piece him back together and be his raison de etre.
Peace.
I wonder if C.C. can really be the "raison d'être" of someone. Zero isn't even interrested in women (or men), or he doesn't look like he his.
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
She is MY raison d'etre. Unfortunately her's is pizza.
Peace.
I think he actually cares about C.C. I have no way of knowing this, it's just that sometimes they talk very affectionately.
I think C.C. must be the loneliest character in Code Geass. And I reckon it's because of that she sneaks into the school grounds as well, against Lelouch's wishes. She doesn't really have anybody else than Lelouch, and their relationship had a pretty rocky beginning as well. And it's not made any easier by the fact C.C. basically needed to find a person who would be ready and willing to commit heinous acts if needed. Needless to say such a person isn't necessarily a prime candidate for a real friendship (or more). Also, C.C. was kept hidden from most people most of the time, and she didn't exactly have an official standing. She was just an important person to Lelouch but that's about it, and noone aside from Nunnally actually may be really sure a person like Lelouch cares for them till the end.
Although to me C.C seems affectionate and Lelouch always escapes with a few words of irony/joke. But I may be wrong.Originally Posted by Shinji Ikari
Seems like CC tries to be like a mother to the one she gave Geass, both Mao and Lelouch had no parents (well Lelouch has a father, but not that it's a dear one...) . But I may be overinfluenced by Mao's arc
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
You guys do realize that C.C. has been watching Lelouch for a very long time its not like she just randomly met him and gave him power when she came out of the "gas container".
Before that scene in the very beginning of episode one C,C, is shown watching a young Suzaku and Lelouch climbing a small hill with sunflowers at the very start of the war. Fact is she needs specifically Lelouch not someone who looks or acts like him but specifically Lelouch and she can't let him die.
It could be because she needs someone of his mothers bloodline or it could be something completely different. Its clear over that time she has developed some level of feelings for him though. Lelouch on the other hand seems leery of her and is just using her as another piece in his game his worry about her is based on his secret getting out and needing her power more then anything else.
Thing is...would Lelouch abandon his plans for C.C. like he did for Nunnaly?
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
DDBen, I don't think it is that specific, but she certainly has known Marianne at the absolute latest sometime after Marianne's death. I can't even begin to speculate what connection the two of them have (though I've guessed they were both "witches" of the same religion we've seen that shares C.C.'s scar).
It's very possible that C.C. has known Marianne for some time before that. I believe that is the connection that brought her to Japan overlooking the two boys climb the hill. Whether it is as specific as you say and has to do with bloodline or is far simpler and only has to do with her acquaintance to Marianne, whatever that may be, only cliffhangers can tell!
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On the issue of CC and Lelouch being lovers, it's about as close as you can get to being that way. There was that scene where Kaguya came bursting in to declare herself as Zero's eventual wife, and he politely rebuked her by saying he's made a deal with the devil, and there's no way he could marry a princess.
Before that, there are the countless awkward scenes where Kallen stumbles in to seeing CC and Zero close, or CC revealed as taking Zero's place, or Nunnally asking if they are going out and CC answering in a very purposefully misunderstood manner.
More recently, Kallen has seen exactly how far she was from Zero all this time. Lelouch was constantly deceiving her, still doesn't tell her everything. If the scenes between her and CC in the consulate show anything other than a little comedy relief and fanservice, it has revealed to Kallen that CC is the only person Lelouch trusts completely and tells everything to.
Trust is of course, a huge part of the most intimate of relationships. That's a pretty big threat to Kallen. She's come closer to him while keeping her distance (saying she's doing it for Zero, not Lelouch, but still warming to him), but she still is so far from where CC stands.
There's only two possibilities for their relationship. Either they are lovers, Lelouch has leaned that way by declaring himself the warlock to her witch, etc. The alternative is an older sister/mother relationship, as CC had with Mao and occasionally crops up with the way she comforts Lelouch or rebukes his foolishness.
Still, I'd lean towards the lovers angle. One scene in the last season where Lelouch had just killed Euphie and is a little distraught, CC lays him down on her lap. That could be conveyed as the mother/sister relationship, but the words during that scene lean far more heavily towards lovers.
There's a huge amount going on in the dynamic of Kallen <> Lelouch <> C.C., and that's part of what makes this series so interesting. The complexity has really gone up since the second season began with Kallen knowing so much more.
@Ryllharu
I think your ignoring Shirley to much in what your saying. Fact is Lelouch was devastated when he had to erase her memory and at that point he considered what could have been between him and Shirley. At that point nothing could be done about it and shortly after his memory was modified. Now once again its fairly clear Shirley has developed feelings for Lelouch again so there is some potential for that relationship to take place as well.
I wouldn't look to deeply into Lelouch refusing the advances of a 12 year old(or however old she is) before going into a battle though. Plus she went by Godess "megumi" not Princess (Hime) as in Godess of victory. His statement was he already has a contract with a Akuma(Devil) and as things stand now he can't get along with Gods(Kami). It was just a fancy play on words in order to tell her he's not interested in being her husband.
Episode 23 DVD time stamp 18:00-18:26
I do agree Kallen is definitely interested at this point at least in Zero if not Lelouch. C.C. definitely has a interest in him as she really doesn't have a wide range of choices for men and she asked him in season one to call her name like a lover would when they were in the cave after he treated her wound. I don't think Lelouch is romantically considering any of them though as he seems more concerned about his personal goals and I retain the only woman that has made him stop and think about her like that is Shirley.
Lelouch is a siscon.
I wouldn't estimate Shirley that high. She was basically Lelouch's girl in the eyes of the others before anything had happened, before Lelouch became Zero, before C.C. or anything. You could say she might have been his girl for real if nothing in the series had ever happened and he would have lived a normal life with the rebellion alive only in his dreams. However, that's quite an empty point and I reckon any interest and feelings he might have had toward Shirley were born of nostalgia.
Edit: 5000 posts! OMG. I am a spam spam spam poster!
Gratz Kraco! I'm barely over half way there, and I've been around for a year and a half longer!
No need to quote a timestamp, I was paraphrasing anyway. Like you said, it's not that important. While you are absolutely right on Kaguya, I don't think I was underestimating Shirley, I was completely disregarding her on purpose.
As Kraco also pointed out, she was "Lelouch's girl" to the views of the Council members. Milly was happily messing with their love lives playing matchmaker. Shirely was completely fabricating a love triangle with Lelouch and Kallen, since he was approaching her more often for simple reasons or to check that his identity wasn't revealed.
Even though she was mindraped relatively early, I don't think she really compared anywhere in terms of emotional/relationship proximity that Kallen and C.C. did at similar periods.
Shirley had a simple infatuation for Lelouch, and while some of the twists were interesting, like when she called herself disgusting (paraphrase) for using her father's death to earn sympathy and a kiss from Lelouch, she just doesn't compare. Lelouch was hurt that he had to do that to her, but I'm sure he would have brushed her aside sooner or later.
Kallen on the other hand, got a utterly blind devotion to Zero. She would have done anything for him, and was obsessively proud of being the captain of his personal guard. She took the role incredibly serious. Even in this episode, she asked Lelouch if he really wanted her to stay in that position. That part is still at the forefront.
Only since the second season started, she has had to come to terms with a person she thought was an asshole for some of his views in the colony when they were together (ref. Refrain episode with Kallen's mother) and her beloved idol who she dreamed to get closest to. She was just as jealous of C.C. then as she is now. So now Kallen has a twisted little issue in her head. Perhaps Lelouch is far more worthy than she ever used to think he was. In addition, that distance imposed by his "secret identity" is now gone. While nowhere near as close to him as C.C. is, Kallen is still close enough to her amazing idol Zero that he feels comfortable without his helmet around her. That makes her the Black Knight he trusts the most. In turn giving her a little boost on her imaginary love scale. The question still remains, does she distrust Lelouch for lying to her more than she loves Zero and the faith/trust the revealed Lelouch has now placed in her?
While Shirley is interesting, she's still just a swimsuit-wearing diversion. I thought she was a lot more interesting when mindraped, but feverishly wondering why she had written a letter saying not only that Zero was Lelouch, but that for some reason, she was deeply in love with him. That Shirely was pulled in two different directions the same way Kallen is now. In her mind, how could she possibly have no idea who this person is, but somehow have written a letter revealing how torn she was over him?
I was a little disappointed finding out that she was back to normal. It probably comes as a relief to Lelouch, but it still makes it just a mindless, infatuated school girl romance.
That's why I say she is irrelevant.
Uhh... only comment is about the age...
When Lelouch and Nunally arrived at Japan, back when they were kids, they saw both Suzaku and Kaguya... and Kaguya looked about Nunnally's age at least. She ain't a kid... she's just not tall LOL.
How many years has it been since that? 8 years?
Wait why on earth would you assume that Shirley doesn't know Lelouch is Zero? No matter what was removed about Nannaly the fact is at the end of the previous season she knew exactly who he was and nobody else knew that she knew that much specifically so there is no reason for that to have changed. Add in her "guess" that Zero might be a lost Prince in R2 and I would say Shirley is going to be a lot more relevant then your giving her credit for. Also remember the student council still knows of Kallen and that she was in the Black Knights. For that to be true the events of the Black Knights taking over the school couldn't have been removed from there minds as without a wanted poster they have no other way they could have discovered that information.
They did? I don't remember that at all have a time stamp by any chance?
The way she's acting now certainly seems to account for her not remembering that Lelouch was Zero.
She was suspicious as hell about Lelouch after she found that letter. In addition, she was always shocked that Milly and Rivalz kept implying that she was being cold to Lelouch for some reason, while she believed that she barely even knew who he was. When he held them all as hostages, Shirley went right after him. With him coming back, she should have been just as suspicious.
Despite the fact that Zero was declared "dead" she still should not have disregarded her own handwriting.
In R2 episode 3, starting at 17:37, Shirley goes into how she's like to ride a cable car, etc, all the things Lelouch blocked out of her memory. He recalls all the events and then brings up his renewed hatred for the Emperor for not only messing with his memories, but Shirley's, Milly's, and Rivalz's as well.
(Before you counter with "The line actually says 'my fault for Shirley....and the president and Rivalz, their memories being manipulated by others like that.' so you're totally wrong Ryllharu etc, etc" it is open to interpretation that he is including Shirley into that subset, and her lack of suspicion towards him supports that.)
--
Now, I'm not saying she won't remember all these things later on. In fact, with the "guess" to Zero's identity that you and I have both remarked on, coupled with what I believe Nina's box contains (photos of Nunnally with the Council members), it seems very likely.
In the same way that C.C. touched Lelouch (though...she is special) it's possible that seeing photos of Nunnally may break the Emperor's rewrite on the three Council members. If not that, it may make them suspicious enough to supplant the false memories with real ones. We don't know enough about the Emperor's Geass to be sure, since Lelouch gained back all his old ones in addition to the fakes...or again, that could be mostly due to C.C.
If that does happen, Shirley will go right back to being suspicious as hell, which will make her very interesting once again, but will completely destroy any chances she has of having a relationship with Lelouch, which is what we had been discussing.
---------------------------
As for the young Kaguya, the flashback is in season 1, eps 23, 6:37 when she remarks that they finally meet.
Last edited by Ryllharu; Tue, 05-06-2008 at 06:55 PM.
First off I'm not talking about Shirley remembering the things Lelouch erased from her mind at least not just yet. I'm talking about the conclusions she came to after that happened based on her own hand writing. That would get rid of the cable car from relevance as Lelouch should have erased that memory.
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As for the child "Kaguya" its very hard to give a exact date on her in that scene but considering Lelouch is what like 15-17 based on that I don't think 12 is a unreasonable age to say she was then as I would easily place her at 4 years younger then Lelouch.
The Kaguya offer is a political one. It is good for building trust and morale among the people. That is where the importance lies, since Zero actually declined the offer and chose the witch/devil, with no political (or any for that matter, since C.C. would stay even if he married the princess) advantage whatsoever.
Let us not forget that Lelouch is tsundere. Considering this, he definitely has feelings for C.C. This has been shown numerous times, and since it hasn't been mentioned yet, some examples are his reaction when C.C. pretended to go with Mao (which is odd because it is technically less trouble for him if he avoids a fight with a geass user) and the renewal of the contract from his end (which is not necessary if he only wanted C.C. as an ally).
Still, this is not up to the level of how he feels for Nunnally, but that is because of the time they have spent together. Lelouch also has an inherent bias towards relationships that has existed before he has decided on his revenge ie. Suzaku (effectively shutting everyone out except Nunnally).
Peace.
I removed the link, The torrent was fake, I'm sorry for those who downloded the torrent.
Last edited by oyabun; Sun, 05-11-2008 at 10:56 AM.
[Chihiro] Code Geass Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 06 [H264][3128AD71] mkv
Real ep this time. HD.
Nice development and fights
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
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