Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2

[DDBen]

I love how much he's betrayed Euphie.

I just can't see how our "new" Suzaku wouldn't report her this time around.

Because at that point his bloodlust had cleared. He was able to catch Zero because Kallen walked away and let him and by catching zero he had avenged Euphie in his mind.

Also the fate the Emperor gave to zero of taking away his mother, sister and well being zero was a much more satisfying revenge then killing Lelouche could ever be for him. He was also granted the title of one of the strongest Knights in the Empire as a result.

So seriously what more could he gain by turning in Kallen? I would think he believed that her walking away from Zero like that ment she had accepted his side or atleast broken Zero's control over her as he probably assumed Zero used his Geass to make her do bad things.

[David75]

I suggested a while ago that everything we see may be a lie, just because the Emperor has such a great power that he can totally rewrite someone. And we don't know wether he can use it only once or not. We do not know anything we can be sure of to date.
Except maybe the Geass in itself.

[RyougaZell]

I agree with Ryl... Suzaku currently completely despises the BK because Zero/Lelouch killed Euphemia, so it would be unlikely he witheld information on Kallen. Lelouch's info was not leaked because of order of the Emperor himself, but what use would he have of Kallen?

Also... Suzaku despises the geass... because of what Lelouch did yo Euphie... kinda ironic that the emperor bitch slapped him showing two geass.

On the side of the leaked episodes...
I do not think they will change it. But yeah... it was a grave incident, since a staff of sunrise itself leaked the episodes.Rumor says he leaked the complete episode, but the other 3 parts (the one leaked is part 4) were stopped in time.
The most pissed off are the sponsors it seems.

[ShinobiNeko]

here is the truth about the leaked ending of upcomming episode

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...ed-by-accident

alot of it was made up stuff on the 4ch site.. it was actual human error when testing out something on website

[Kraco]

Bandai Channel (the network service responsible for posting the entire program onto the Internet) was testing a system that prevents unauthorized video posts when it accidentally uploaded the episode's ending onto the Internet early.

[animus]

That kinda just sounds like a quick-fix cover up to be honest.

[RyougaZell]

Indeed it sounded like that.

But as I once worked on System Testing I can understand and believe it to be a test error...

At least the rumors of the episode not airing will die down. I downloaded the 'spoiler' but will not see it. There is no point now.

[Ryllharu]

Because at that point his bloodlust had cleared. He was able to catch Zero because Kallen walked away and let him and by catching zero he had avenged Euphie in his mind.

Also the fate the Emperor gave to zero of taking away his mother, sister and well being zero was a much more satisfying revenge then killing Lelouche could ever be for him. He was also granted the title of one of the strongest Knights in the Empire as a result.

So seriously what more could he gain by turning in Kallen? I would think he believed that her walking away from Zero like that ment she had accepted his side or atleast broken Zero's control over her as he probably assumed Zero used his Geass to make her do bad things.

You've got it backward. Kallen ran off because Suzaku caught Lelouch. Suzaku was sitting on top of a prone Lelouch with a gun pointed at Kallen. Kallen didn't walk away...she ran off. Just like Lelouch said in the second episode. Kallen knew she would not be able to defeat Suzaku. He's an excellent soldier, and Kallen is only capable of being his equal when she's in a Knightmare.

There was no "satisfying" Suzaku either. Just like Lelouch made similar decisions with incredible coldness, Suzaku merely traded Lelouch for power. He has looked and acted pretty much the same since Euphie died and he confirmed that Zero was Lelouch. I suspect that Suzaku will not feel satisfied until he achieves Euphie's goals. Of course the means by which he achieves those will counter everything she wanted. That is why I say how wonderful it is that Suzaku has betrayed her vision, and continues to betray her. What happened to Lelouch was simply what happened. Suzaku clearly didn't care. All he wanted in that moment was a position of power. He should have heard an earful about what happened to Nunnally, and still have had some concern for her. Nunnally is an innocent, even in Suzaku's eyes. It was simply a matter of him no longer caring.

As for what he could have gained? Security. One less member of the opposition. Especially one as talented as Kallen is in a Knightmare. If anything, he had more important things to do (like keeping Lelouch in custody). Kallen wasn't a threat at that point.

[DDBen]

I just rewatched the clip of and Ryllharu we completely disagree on what happen.

Note I'm watching the Eclipse sub.

Kallen initially freezes up when she finds out who Zero is and that allows Lelouche and Suzaku to shoot at each other where Suzaku wins. At that point she calls out for Zero and Suzaku counters he isn't Zero its Lelouche the man who used her and asks if she really wants to protect that type of man.

At that point she runs off because she's confused it has nothing to do with being afraid she can't beat Suzaku because he's a better fighter its because at that time she was afraid and confused and it was Suzaku who convinced her to run off because he felt she was just being used.

note 2:42-3:09

Why would he say the man who USED the Japanese and you if his intentions were blind bloodlust against the Black Knights? Why would he tell her to abandon him with a gun pointed in her direction but never so much as looking back at her?

Plus the fact he didn't kill Lelouche on the spot says a lot. He still wasn't willing to kill his Best friend with his own hands. Instead he turned him in and asked someone else to do it for him. All of this tells me Suzaku isn't really the coldhearted asshole you guys want him to be.

[Kraco]

Ho... I wouldn't necessarily think so. After Euphie was killed he became very, very enraged. I would have expected him at that point to kill Lelouch should he get a chance. However, he didn't but coldly and tactically turned him in. I think that shows more coldheartedness than killing Lelouch on the spot to avenge his lost love. It means he was willing to forget Euphie was murdered in order to advance on his own career. Now, that was of course the better choice for him, but it certainly doesn't make him a warmer person.

And just for the record let's not forget it was war back then, and not a time of peace. And it's a different world anyway than ours so killing someone for revenge probably would have meant nothing under those circumstances.

[shinta|hikari]

Suzaku didn't forget about Euphie. He simply used Lelouch as a bargaining tool to get what he wants - changing the system from within. This was also Euphie's goal, and I think part of the reason he is so power hungry is his desire to fulfill this common goal, rather than a simple thirst for power. However, like Ryll said, Suzaku's methods have become akin to those of Lelouch, the very means that he used to despise. Euphie's death served the same purpose to Suzaku as the death of Marianne and Nunally's injuries did to Lelouch, which is to instill an almost blind determination to achieve their goal (which is not simply vengeance, but also changing the world as they see fit).

@Ddben - I do agree with you that Kallen didn't run because of a logical understanding that she is no match for Suzaku in combat, but rather her confusion and belief that Lelouch fooled them all along. BUT, not killing Lelouch is definitely not a sign of being a good person. Not killing him on the spot and handing him over to the emperor (not anyone else due to his desire to gain power) is not being cold hearted? What if Lelouch was tortured? Publicly humiliated then executed? Such scenarios are hardly unlikely with how Britannians view the world, especially if the decision lies with the man who imposes such a view in the first place, the emperor himself (ie Suzaku's own execution, so any excuse that stems from him not knowing any better will not work).

It definitely wasn't blind bloodlust on Suzaku's part though. If you recall the dialogue between Suzaku and Lelouch in the last part of ep 25 in season 1, Suzaku tries to rationalize stopping Lelouch and his plans because "Lelouch has become twisted", and he needs to right that wrong. Rationalizing one's actions is definitely not a sign of pure blood thirst.

Despite his change in terms of the methods he uses, it seems that Suzaku still believes that changing the system from within is better than doing it through rebellion, even if the actions required to do so are the same or even morally worse. This part of his hypocrisy still has not changed, which is why my hatred will not dissipate, at least for now.

EDIT: about Suzaku turning in Kallen... I think he has not done so yet, but there is no guarantee that he will not inform the empire if they encounter each other again. Right now, I think he simply regards Kallen as more of a victim of Lelouch's deception rather than a willing rebel, and I think he still wants her to simply stay out of the way.

[animus]

Removing Lelouch's memories of Nunnally and his mother could probably be the worst torture he could ever receive.

[Yukimura]

I wouldn't really think of it as torture if he had never gotten his memories back. He certainly didn't seem that tortured running around school with Rollo.

Speaking of running, I really hope Lelouch will do some cardio this season. He's never going to match god of battle Suzaku but he should at least be able to run for 10 minutes without nearly passing out.

[Kraco]

Speaking of running, I really hope Lelouch will do some cardio this season. He's never going to match god of battle Suzaku but he should at least be able to run for 10 minutes without nearly passing out.

And C.C. looks like she could be a hard to please woman, so Lelouch better get some stamina for the all-night sessions with her.

[David75]

this memory rewrite Geass is very interresting because potentially only the Emperor knows who killed Lelouch's mother.
So lelouch's stunts to get close to his relatives and command them to tell him who did it and how it happened was a wrong move from the start

[animus]

The only person he used his Geass to ask of his mother's death that's still alive, is Cornelia. And god knows where she's at. I don't think Geass'd people remember what they're doing under the effects of it.

[David75]

The only person he used his Geass to ask of his mother's death that's still alive, is Cornelia. And god knows where she's at. I don't think Geass'd people remember what they're doing under the effects of it.

Well he had to take risks for the "brother" he killed and for Cornelia, and all for naught. It just isn't the right method now that he knows about the memory rewrite thing.

Oh, and why does he know about it only now? what is the reason he gets his memory back?

[Ryllharu]

Pertaining to the issue of Lelouch losing his memories of Marianne and Nunnally:

How exactly is this torture in any way? He doesn't remember them. There's nothing to be sad about since the mindraped Lelouch doesn't even know they exist. Sure, it really pissed him off after he got the memories back, but the only thing it accomplishes is removing Lelouch's motivation for revenge. It's like taking his chess piece out of the game completely. No King piece to lead the others, no reason to fight. A masterful defensive move by the Emperor.

Now, if he had done something like what happens at the beginning of Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles to Sakura (i.e. Losing specific memories of people, particularly the ones most important to you, but still remembering all the situations they would have appeared in), that would be "torture" to Lelouch. He'd know exactly why all these people are so important to him, but have no idea who they were.

That's why it was such a tragedy in that series. Here. he's only angry because the Emperor made him forget and he found out about it. For all the other Lelouch knew, everything was peachy.


As for why he got him memory back, he touched C.C. That's all it takes. Just remember all the damage she did to Suzaku the first time she merely touched the Lancelot.

[DDBen]

@Ddben - I do agree with you that Kallen didn't run because of a logical understanding that she is no match for Suzaku in combat, but rather her confusion and belief that Lelouch fooled them all along. BUT, not killing Lelouch is definitely not a sign of being a good person. Not killing him on the spot and handing him over to the emperor (not anyone else due to his desire to gain power) is not being cold hearted? What if Lelouch was tortured? Publicly humiliated then executed? Such scenarios are hardly unlikely with how Britannians view the world, especially if the decision lies with the man who imposes such a view in the first place, the emperor himself (ie Suzaku's own execution, so any excuse that stems from him not knowing any better will not work).

We largely agree here but I suspect that Suzaku did what V.V. told him to do with Lelouch and thats why he brought him to the Emperor. I doubt he know what would be done with him after he did so but I can't see many ways that a 11 even with his records would get a private meeting with the Emperor like that even with Zero in hand. I still don't think Suzaku would have been able to flat out kill him though after knowing who he was because he still holds a attachment to his friend.

EDIT: about Suzaku turning in Kallen... I think he has not done so yet, but there is no guarantee that he will not inform the empire if they encounter each other again. Right now, I think he simply regards Kallen as more of a victim of Lelouch's deception rather than a willing rebel, and I think he still wants her to simply stay out of the way.

We agree here. If Suzaku meets Kallen on the battlefield in the future he will certainly try his best to kill/defeat her. I was only saying there is no reason to believe he went out of his way to give out information to get her caught during this break in the fighting because he actively encouraged her to run away and he wanted her as a friend to be able to live a normal life rather then him blindly wanting her hunted down and killed or captured as a past member of the Black Knights like some were claiming.

[Ryllharu]

We largely agree here but I suspect that Suzaku did what V.V. told him to do with Lelouch and thats why he brought him to the Emperor. I doubt he know what would be done with him after he did so but I can't see many ways that a 11 even with his records would get a private meeting with the Emperor like that even with Zero in hand. I still don't think Suzaku would have been able to flat out kill him though after knowing who he was because he still holds a attachment to his friend.

The only thing V.V. told Suzaku was that Zero had a power called the Geass [Episode 24-25 starting at 14:22]. Not who Zero was, and gave him no instructions. Just like C.C. doesn't tell Lelouch what to do, though we really have no idea what she wants in exchange yet or when she will demand payment. But V.V. doesn't have a deal with Suzaku as Lelouch does with C.C. There is no obligation between them. He can't give Suzaku any orders. V.V. can manipulate him, and he surely did that. In no way, shape, or form did V.V. tell Suzaku to do anything. Suzaku went to take revenge for Euphie. No one else.

We agree here. If Suzaku meets Kallen on the battlefield in the future he will certainly try his best to kill/defeat her. I was only saying there is no reason to believe he went out of his way to give out information to get her caught during this break in the fighting because he actively encouraged her to run away and he wanted her as a friend to be able to live a normal life rather then him blindly wanting her hunted down and killed or captured as a past member of the Black Knights like some were claiming.

There's no reason to believe that he wouldn't now that he takes orders only from the royalty, maybe only the Emperor himself. The Emperor showed clear motive for wiping out the entirety of the Black Knights, and clearly wanted C.C. dead. Why give her any additional aid allowed to operate freely? As half-Britannian, particularly higher society, Kallen would still have free access if she wasn't outed as a member of the Black Knights.

After who she still stubbornly supports (Suzaku expressing that sentiment exactly in the flashback to the island) why would he give her any quarter after all the aid she has provided Zero and the role she might have played in Euphie's death. Sure, he let her escape the island, but with all the other members of the Black Knights in exile, in prison, or dead, why would he even bother sparing Kallen now?