The thing that rankled with me more was how Cecile was about to tell Nina why Raksharta calls Lloyd "Pudding Earl," and they never told us. At least the hint of Lelouch knowing C.C.'s real name was from last season, not ten minutes from the end of the series.
We can only hope it comes out as a Picture Drama.
Anyone know the song before the ending?
All speculation:
More abstract haziness into what CC said. CC probably meant that Kaguya, who loved Zero, knew nothing about him farther than beneath a mask, until recently (when Lelouch started strutting around with his dictatorial powers). Therefore, she could not comprehend what Lelouch's true nature and intentions (cliche tragic anti-hero).1) What did CC meant when she told Kaguya that she understands Lelouch? (Kaguya, not CC)
CC (11:25): You're a kind person.
can be interpreted as "gentle". I think this implies how fragile and ignorant Kaguya is.
Probably not yet. He's also shown alive as a hostage at 13:20.2) Did Xingke finally die? He isn't in any photo, but his Knightmare is when Ougi salutes Nunnally
Yes, he did.3) Did Toudou recognized the new Zero as Suzaku? As he questioned it and Kallen just shouted that it 'was' Zero, as she understood the real purpose of the Zero Requiem
Assuming that Lelouch inherited CC's Code, then yes, he became a "warlock/witch" like CC. There is no logical explanation, and an event to prove this was when Suzaku touched CC in season 1, which provoked the suppressed memories of Suzaku killing his father before Euphemia's massacre. This argument would be completely be voided if you don't believe Lelouch is the horse-carriage guy.4) How come Nunnally had a flashback? Does this point out that Lelouch really did have a code and was affecting her?
Jeremiah was probably brought to court for supporting Lelouch, ending up with a demotion, or simply fled to become an orange picker. Seeing as the countries had shifted their hate for each other, abandoned war and worked on diplomacy, which destroyed almost all incentive to have pilots.7) What did Anya remember so she went to live with Jeremiah?
Lelouch probably outlined a plan for the aftermath of the Zero Requiem for Jeremiah, but it's all speculation.11) What happens with all the geassed soldiers?
Plus, I think Rivalz got matched up with Meeya (Mai Hunni).
Not quite. Kallen is keeping to herself while Gino is trying to cling to her. I can picture Kallen slapping him afterwards.Originally Posted by Idealistic
watched the RAW, really enjoyed it.
Was really distressed at the beginning of the episode when Gino was fiddling with his disabled Knightmare, taking it as a set up for him heroically saving Kallen with his disabled mech at the cost of his life. Thankfully, he stayed away.
Really liked the scene with Toudoh and his gal, and the prison conversation, incomplete as it is.
I love it when the climactic mech battle sets aside all the cool fantastic gizmos and just becomes a fierce melee. That's the stuff. But Suzaku was so clearly alive since he didn't even have a shot of him in the cockpit seeing 'the light', let alone the standard 'important character dying monologue'
I started getting very giddy when Lelouch used Geass on Nunnally to get the Key. That right there comforted me into the idea that the show wasn't going to go down the 'happy trails and a lesson learned' path.
I was really pretty touched.
Lelouch alive? Dead? They left it too open ended to tell either which way. You can make arguments, but I say just believe what you want. Whatever will help you sleep at night. I noticed the cart driver thing focus too, especially the hidden face, and it could make sense that Lelouch got CC's code. It would certainly explain why she's so happy at the end. Also, a person with the Code dies when they get shot/stabbed, but they come back to life, or something like that...
Also, what's with Lelouch getting all sad and wistful with his little "dying moment" if he knew he'd pop back up after a little while?
IF Lelouch is alive, you have to wonder if he ever told Suzaku that he'd stay alive? or did he trick him into joining his side with a Zero Requiem including "you can kill me"? his sad little whispers to Suzaku, if the guy on the cart is Lulu, would make me think he did lie to Suzaku.
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
While I think the ending was very solid, I'm kind of disappointed. Because it was so solid it doesn't really stand out to me among other endings. I feel I'm much more likely to forget all about Code Geass now than if there was some completely absurd ending like Zombie Clovis pulling off the Zero mask and doing a head thrown back cackle and Lelouch dying with a "WTF?" look on his face while Nunners cried.
All in all I definately think the ending was a good one for a series that seemed to be meandering a lot near the end. But other than the interest I have in certain green-haired, or citrus-fruit-picking, or fabulous-megalomaniac characters I don't think I'm going to be carrying much from this franchise in my head or heart by the end of next season.
In other news I also believe that the cart driver was Lelouch (though it didn't cross my mind on the first watch). I don't think you purposefully make the last scene of a series throw such a strong hint without actually meaning it. An alternative explanation that someone came up with could be that Lelouch somehow picked up Charles' Code just before he went all sparkles. I'd be happier with Lulu and C.C. living together forever than with him immortal and her doomed to die at some point, leaving him all alone. Either way I'm hoping for an R3 with Lulu and C.C.'s fabulously brilliant love-child taking up the Zero mask and going up against some corrupt European who didn't get the Hate Lelouch Not Us memo.
Lol, you must not know Sunrise. Bringing characters back from blatant and even poignant deaths is one of the things they're most famous for. Our dear friend Mwu La Flagaa? He had an AWESOME death scene where you actually see him get disintegrated and then poof he's back in the sequel with nothing but a scar on his face. Hell, they killed off like 95% of the cast of Mai-HiME in moving scenes of love or affection over the course of the show only to bring them all back in the final episode.
Last edited by Yukimura; Sun, 09-28-2008 at 11:59 PM.
I would think that Lelouch lied to everyone except for C.C. Only Suzaku knew of the possibility of immortality excluding the two of them, and he knew none of the details. His tears as he killed his former best friend proved his ignorance of even the possibility of Lelouch coming back to life.
About Lelouch being wistful in his death scene, it is probably for believability (in-show characters) and audience (us) suspense.
I was also perplexed as to how Nunnally was able to mysteriously have a flashback of Lelouch's past and motive when she touched him. This would make absolutely no sense unless Lelouch did have the code in him. Take note that this happened before in the show, like when Lelouch touched C.C. for the first time and as mentioned before when Suzaku got mind raped. I really wanted Nunnally to live with her sins and the consequences of her naivety, and this just confirms that.
While she was a very stupid girl, Nunnally with the violet eyes was really cute, especially when she was geassed and politely gave the key to her Onii-sama.
EDIT:
@Yuki - You don't even have to look at other series. Code Geass itself is like a resurrection frenzy. A sequel would be nice if it is set like 10 years after, and does not feature the main characters of the first two shows. A few appearances would be great just to show how they are doing, but a whole new story would be better.
@RZ - If only I could afford it... But reality is harsh.
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Mon, 09-29-2008 at 02:12 AM.
Peace.
This was a good way to end the series, I believe Lelouch is alive in that last scene with C.C. Lelouch's death scene was great and I thought that it was done well.
It was good to see Orange-kun doing what he was meant to do, heh.
Well there are some factors here we can't be 100% sure of. Note C.C. appears in the church where she got the code in the first place from the nun while the Zero Requiem is being carried out. Also Lelouch even if he knew he wouldn't kill him was acting to convince others even if his life didn't end he would never be able to see his friends again either way. That was his goodbye to all those he cared about while leaving them the gift of a better world.
I am in the camp that believes that Lelouch was driving the cart with C.C. in the end as there are way to many hints pointing at it for them to all be meaningless.
The OVA should just be about their everyday lives after these events... No war no nothing.. Just a drama.
Oh wait... There's no more freaking Shirley though!! Can't have Ashford Academy without Shirley! Scratch that.
Last edited by Idealistic; Mon, 09-29-2008 at 03:32 AM.
All my thoughts are already said one way or the other.
I think Lelouch is alive, though I didn't think that initially, I think the arguments are quite strong.
Secondly, the part about Nunnaly seeing the truth....was that really the Immortal flashback? I initially thought it was just Nunnaly's Truth Sense, since she says she can tell the truth from touching someone's hands. In fact that's exactly what she had in mind. She saw Lelouch die, asked in a standard, but distant manner "Onii-sama?", like "Are you dead yet, brother?", saw the smile, thought something's not right, and used the Truth Sense.
For me, both that and the Immortal Flashback work enough as an explanation, though the latter would be point more strongly at Lelouch's survival.
Now but as a counter, if C.C, knew the truth, why was she crying when it was all happening? Her confident self wouldn't allow such a thing, and she should be smiling smugly at Lelouch's plan, like she did in the ending.
I really liked this ending, and I hope it really IS the ending, though I won't mind supplement material. The death scene was emotional, but not as emotional as I was hoping. Maybe I was tired after work, so I'll rewatch it when I get some rest again.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
The problem with the lie detecting ability that Nunnally has is that it can only tell her if what the person is saying is true or not, no details included. The flashback that she got included scenes that only Lelouch, Suzaku, and C.C. are aware of. It is possible that those are just used for symbolism, and that she simply figured everything out by herself much like the others did, but the signs lean more towards it being something supernatural.
There can be a number of reasons, with no way to confirm which is correct. My personal guess would be that she feels sad for Lelouch having to make himself immortal and suffer a fate similar to what she has suffered. She may also feel pity for Lelouch who sacrificed almost everything for what he believed to be a better world. Still, the most logical guess would probably be that the creators put that scene in to bait the viewers into thinking that Lelouch really died (if C.C. didn't cry, I'm sure everyone would expect Lelouch's comeback) only to put in the final scene and have the scales tip in the other direction.
Peace.
Okay, this I really don't understand, taken from randomc:
Where did that come from? It would be awesome if it was true, but I can't quite see where R.R. came from.If you’ve been paying attention in the series and didn’t get lost in all of the complexities and plot twists (which even I acknowledge was a little overboard in R2), then you can build a case about Lelouch still being alive based on the Code he might have received. C.C. thus might have been talking directly with Lelouch at the end there instead of her talking with the dead or whatever. Taking that one step further, you could say that Lelouch would now be R.R., aka. R2, the title of the series.
Edit: okay, some say R.R.=L.L. = Lelouch Lamperouge.
But still, doesn't tell me much. It's not like we knew why C.C. or V.V. were called so.
Edit2: Found this rather interesting, so I'm copying it in its entirety:
Original SourceThe most obvious reason would be CC calling to Lelouch in the closing scene of the episode. As we can assume CC to be still sane, she must be talking to someone, and that someone would most probably be the driver of the cart: Lelouch would have to be alive.
Second, however, and this is where the others have thought things through, Lelouch is alive because he got his dad’s code. He beckoned the World of C to lend him its powers, and he took Charles’s code before Charles passed on. The reason why Lelouch still has his Geass is because he didn’t take the Code from the same person who gave him his Geass: he took his Geass from CC, and he took his Code from Charles. Thus, he now possesses both immortality and a Geass. This is also a reason that the title is Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion.
To further corroborate this, however, remember that when Nunnally held Lelouch’s hand he transferred his memories to her. CC also did it when Lelouch touched her accidentally back then, so it could be assumed that people with Codes are indeliberate telepaths. This leaves us with both immortals traversing the world for the rest of eternity.
It’s a great end, friends.
P.S. Ending line of CC translated by bibi: “Geass is the power of kings, it will isolate you… well, I guess thats a little wrong… eh, Lelouch”
P.P.S. Additional evidence, courtesy of `Nergal and 4chan:
1. Charles grabbed Lelouch with his right hand, which had the Geass sigil.
2. Lelouch needed the fully evolved Geass to transfer a code.
3. The code doesn’t appear to activate until someone dies. Hence, why C.C. was wounded when she first inherited her code. Same happened with Charles in the World of C.
4. When Lelouch touched Nunnally, Nunnally got a flash of his memories. This ONLY happens when a high potential Geass user touches someone with the fully evolved Geass.
5. The title of the series is “R2″, which is similar to how “C.C” is pronounced. So Lelouch would be “R.R.” which is Engrish (I presume) for L.L., Lelouch Lamprouge.
6. When C.C. is talking on the wagon, she says “the power of Geass brings loneliness…that’s not quite right is it, Lelouch?” and nods her head in the direction of the wagon driver.
P.P.P.S More evidence, courtesy of an intelligent anon from 4chan:
Orange knew of Lelouche’s and Suzaku’s plan and helped them out by ordering his men not to fire on Zero, he even smiled when Zerozaku jumped on his shoulder.
Now would Orange, a man who devoted himself entirely to Lelouche and threw away everything without a second thought be OK with a plan where the sole person he wants to protect in life is actually killed? The answer to that is NO, not even if Lelouche ordered him to accept the plan: he would not go along with it and would protect him with his life. There is only one way that Orange would be OK with a plan like that and thats if he knew about Lelouche’s immortality, which I assume he did as he worked with V.V. in the Geass research base. Orange was OK with this plan as he knew Lelouche would come to no harm and would be able to start a new peaceful life with the woman he loves in a world which he himself had made peaceful.
Even at the end, we see Orange on his orange plantation, completely content with the way things have panned out, he definitely could not be that happy had Lelouche actually died.
There it is, firm evidence of Lelouche’s immortality if the scene with C.C. and the cart driver wasn’t painfully obvious enough.
C.C's crying is still throwing me off from being 100% certain, but like you guys have said, they made it that way. Simple faith and a positive outlook is good enough for me
I found the Code + Geass = Code Geass argument very convincing though, not to mention quite clever.
All Hail Lelouch!
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Mon, 09-29-2008 at 04:58 AM.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
A lot of people seem to think that Lelouch got the code from the emperor, which does not make sense. He was also never shown to have his geass after the two month time skip in the final episode. They also seem to mistake the current pact between Lelouch and C.C. to be "making her smile", which is incorrect. The promise is actually to make her "die smiling", which would be impossible if she still had her code. If C.C. simply gave Lelouch the code, then it would all make sense.
I really like the Orange idea. It does make sense now that I think about it.
Another thing I got from another forum is that R.R. or R2 (R) is the exact midpoint between C.C. (C) and V.V. (V), as if the sum of the two is Zero. As the person that came up with this said, it may be over analysis, but I personally like the idea.
Peace.
She didn't seem to be anymore in any hurry to die, lying on top of the hay load, fortunately.
Firstly, I don't think there was any point in exposing his Geass after the timeskip. Like he said, Geass is used to accomplish something you can't do with your own power. As the one and only Emperor of Britannia over a crushed world, it doesn't seem like he'd need it.
Secondly, about the pact. I always thought the pact was to simply "kill me". But really, C.C's wish is to be loved, as was evident in her own Geass. It's not a steadfast rule to say "If we don't abide by our contract, I'll go find someone else, or erase your power". She left Mao, but left his powers for him, because he simply couldn't fulfill her wish. Though the pact is unchanged, she simply doesn't want to die yet. Here are other ways to "make her smile". If both parties are happy with the breach in a contract, no one gives a damn.
Also, him having taken Charles' Code will explain why C.C. is crying during Zero Requiem. Lelouch simply didn't tell her he stole Charles' Code. Since C.C.'s crying was the main part of my doubt, this theory works fine for me.
Side note: the Code transfer process was never explained at all. I dare say that it involves direct contact with the owner's Code, though where it manifests on the new owner I can't explain. That would explain Lelouch taking it from Charles' hand, and also why Charles tried to kiss C.C -- He was going for the code on her forehead.
The R.R. being in the middle is an interesting idea. Question is now (and it probably won't be answered), why do they call themselves C.C. and V.V.? R1 hinted that they were probably aliens of some kind, so they chose something humans can pronounce, but now it's really left up to interpretation.
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Mon, 09-29-2008 at 09:03 AM.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
Ugh...
Anyone can have their own version of the ending. But all these theories of how Lelouch survived are bordering on ridiculous.
Shinta:
What? the all mighty CC fan will not get that figure? Tsk tsk. Guess you aren't that fan of her
I personally like the R2 theory. But, R2 = R.R. = Rerouch? Lol.
What's your version Ryou?
One thing I haven't come across arguments for yet is the paper crane. In fact, that was truly the final thing to be shown before the credits. Did anybody remember what it symbolised?
I vaguely remember Nunnaly making if for Lelouch and Suzaku (don't think C.C. got one) at Ashford R1. Something about making one thousand of these will make your wish come true?
If so, then who's crane is it? (If I take the "Lelouch died" path, it could just simply be C.C. keeping a memento of Lelouch...)
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
My version is simply that he died. CC crying would have no meaning if he survived. She just appeared happy at the end because she learnt many things from Lelouch, and because she was happy the time they spent together.
Nunnally didn't see those images, they were given to the benefit of us viewers and she just understood what happened.
Anyone could ask Suzaku afterwards, after all, Toudou and Kallen recognized him.
The crane... a memento I think. Or just probably Nunnally's words about wishes. Lelouch did say a geass is like a wish.
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