Graham, will be back. And thats what matters.
Graham, will be back. And thats what matters.
Whoops. Got confused with names.Originally Posted by NeoCybercoin
Awesome series. Never thought I'd be sad for it to end. Thought I would be ecstatic now that CG's returning to us, which I still am; but still, great effing series.
Wonder how season 2 will turn out.
It looked like a decent ending to me. People died. Although the preview was a somewhat sad by showing some of the dead are a bit too lively for their own good, after all. Still, I'm very happy Ali is not dead. He can't be too happy in a world with no wars but we all know the next war is just around the corner so nothing's lost yet.
I'm not that sure Setsuna's dead... if he is though, your theory makes sense. maybe it'll be a pilotless Gundam (like those... things in FMP)...
I also feel the news of his death has been greatly exaggerated. For one, Setsuna always struck me as the main character of this show. And stories where the main character dies in the middle are somewhat rare (though not nonexistent). The fact this one had a whole cadre of central characters does make it more plausible to kill even the one right in the middle, but when we are talking about anime and not French novels from the 19th century I can't avoid the feeling it's wise to reserve some leeway.
Besides, if Setsuna is not there, who is Ali going to have his final clash with? Those two are the ones with history and it still remains to be resolved which one of them was right (that is, the last man standing). And in a sense it would be a beautiful end for Ali - who no doubt wants to die fighting - if he was killed by a man he trained himself.
I really enjoyed it.
Neither Soma nor Sergei died. That alone made my day. I was expecting one of them to go, especially after Al/Hal started working together, and they came up with a reasonable explanation for what each part had been doing all this time. Looking back, it had stayed consistent. One was brutal but occasionally got in too deep, and one was thinking too much to be any good.
Sure, Setsuna's fight was a little lame, but Lasse (who's name I finally learned) got to be really cool before he died, and show off his own combat capabilities.
The best part was how much mystery was still left over, even before the epilogue. Why is Soma "Marie" and where exactly does Al/Hal know her from? All hostile forces were leaving (Soma and Sergei), neutralized, or destroyed. Yet even with Sumeragi and Felt nearby in one of the ships, Setsuna was sure he was going to die, and Tieria even ejected his core. wtf?
The Epilogue:
Tons of good stuff here to speculate about for months. Some has been said, some not.
- I thought it was pretty clear Nena was working for Liu-Mei now. They had a conversation, "Mistress" from Nena, during the scene where Shirin with much longer hair was leaving Marina. I doubt that CB would allow any kind of spying in their facilities, so it Nena was probably receiving a feed from Liu-Mei. She also had the same unique model of space suit that Liu-Mei was wearing (large princess shoulders, glowing shiny lines everywhere).
- No sign of Soma. That made me sad.
- Louise and Tieria together. Louise looked a bit like a nun...but moreover. Tieria was a girl now! If you listen just carefully enough, you hear the little smirk out of Tieria. Only this time it was clearly not the actor playing Tieria all season, but definitely a female voice actress.
- Libbons little crew will obviously be the evil Meistars for next season.
- Saji is going where exactly? It looked less like a colony, and more like a large spacecraft. Perhaps going to Jupiter? [Only speculation at this point, but the mystery behind the original solar furnaces is far from over.]
EDIT: heh. I can finally check randomc's anime blog (been avoiding the gundam post for days), and I see they came to many of the same conclusions I did.
Last edited by Ryllharu; Tue, 04-01-2008 at 05:24 PM.
Since they mentioned they also hinted they had Exia's GN drive I would wager that he came back alive. Allelujah I'm not so sure about, but we don't know who Marie was yet so he might have managed to survive somehow too.
I remember saying Patrick and I guess I was right. When his suit was hit only the upper half was destroyed. The cockpit of the GN-X sits fairly low on the chest and it was clearly intact when we see the remains float away.
Someone had to be piloting the new Original GN Drive bearing Gundam Saji saw and I suspect it would have been one of the original pilots (Setsuna or Allelujah), or possibly Felt.
The Tieria look alike is also a Shirin look alike and the laugh sounded like her so hopefully he'll stay dead and we won't have to choke down a Tieria clone factory plot line.
the biggest mystery though is will OO Gundam be better than the Wing 0 it is doomed to be a clone of? Or might it actually surpass the godhood that is Strike Freedom.
It wasn't Shirin. Her hair had grown to waist length, was still brown, and she was presumably leaving Marina the same time Tieria-chan was with Louise.
Tieria has had an identity crisis all season long. The way he addressed himself and the whole Nadleeh mythology tied it all together. Starting with "ore" (the manliest) and slipping into "boku" later in the season and when Nadleeh first came out, he used "watashi" once. It's possible that in four years time, Tieria has embraced that other part of himself/herself and gone into hiding. Somehow meeting with Louise, how, we'll have to wait and find out.
Tieria also has little curls now, which reminds me of Sumeragi. Maybe he'll be taking the tactician role next season? I really don't think this could have ended any other way. Personally, I loved Hallelujah's combo attack the best. It looks like he dies this season, but with all these dead people around the place, who knows. I know I'll be happy if he's back. I'm gonna bet that 0 Gundam was the one that saved Setsuna in ep1. The stage is set up nicely for season 2. First we had a divided world in conflict, then we have a united Earth under the Livonze Empire. Only a matter of time before what I think will be a Empire vs Republic/Separists war. Can't think of any more to say right now. Patiently counting down to October.
I don't know, I'm sure they have dye and scissors in the future.
The similarity between those two has always made me suspicious and something as simple as a haircut doesn't do much to ease my suspicions. Most of the characters in the show look different enough from one another that I don't feel comfortable blaming the similarities between Shirin and Tieria on lazy character designers. Plus, they had similar personalties in terms of their pragmatism and their condescending and arrogant demeanor towards their more idealism driven foils. The Setsuna/Tieria dynamic was somewhat similar to the Maria/Shirin dynamic, though Tieria was wrapped up so tightly with Lockon, being a Meister, and his own personal issues that it wasn't always obvious. I would find it fitting that there be some sort of Tieria/Shirin relationship that somehow reflects the Setsuna/Maria relationship.
And something that seems to have been swept totally under the rugare the Observers. Where the heck did they go? I would think they would have had something to say when the GN-X's came out, but we didn't hear a peep from them after the recap ep. Hopefully they'll make an appearance of some sort in Season 2 otherwise I'll have to light another candle on the alter to Sunrise's missed plot opportunities.
Last edited by Yukimura; Wed, 04-02-2008 at 11:56 PM.
I will concede that it might not be Tieria-turned-girl (the cyborg angle he always had can lead to clone situations), but I guarantee that it is NOT Shirin.
You're not writing the show so why are you so willing to guarantee something that's within the realm of possiblity won't happen? I mean, Mwu La Flagaa came back from the dead. How can you guarantee anything won't happen? And look at it this way, Shirin had next to no importance to the plot in the first half of the season and no importance in the second half, yet despite this she was shown in the final montage. I think it's quite possible she was a lot more than she seemed.
While there currently is no compelling evidence to believe Shirin cut her hair and started smiling creepily around one handed co-eds she does look a lot like the person seen with Louise and what evidence do we have that she isn't that person? All we've got to go on at this point is a montage.
Because we saw Shirin during the same time period in a completely different location and under completely different cirumstances. Moreover, it is implied that Tieria has turned into a girl, who's masculinity/femininity issues have been hinted at all season long.
It's a special case of Occam's Razor. Sure, it could be Shirin, who somehow dyes her hair and cuts it for no reason after it grew to such length over the four years, or it could be the far more logical and simple conclusion that Tieria (who has known gender issues for 25 episodes) is now in hiding as a girl. The fact that Tieria would become is a girl would be more complicated, but since they've been playing with the idea all season, it becomes the simplest one.
To what purpose would they show Shirin with incredibly long hair, only to have her cut it and dye it into Tieria-purple? That's overly complicated.
I think the issue is you are taking the fact that Tieria-chan (for lack of an actual name) wears glasses, Shirin wears glasses, they both have lazy Sunrise-animator narrow eyes, and just running with it to the most complicated solution.
I thought Tieria's haircut was more Lockon-esque than like Sumeragi. I thought it was some kinda homage to him or something.
I don't have any issue with your idea and I agree that it makes sense, however I certainly don't trust Sunrise to choose the path that makes the most sense (look at the outcomes of Nena+Gundam vs Ali+Pistol, 30 Gundams vs 4 Gundams, and 900 MS's vs 4 Gundams) so I disagree with your flat denial of the possibility that you're wrong based on reading between the lines and applying logic.
Anyway, my primary motivation is that I don't like the idea that Shirin was just a throw away tertiary character. If she just walks out of the story and that' the end of her then there was no real point in having her in the show at all. However if she somehow ties in with Tieria and his gender issues then her character has a place in the main story and thus more room to grow.
And I never said I thought the Tieria looking person with Louise had to be Shirin, only that said person and Shirin could have some sort of connection which gives Shirin a purpose.
Who said Shirin was a throwaway character? She had one purpose in Azadistan. Making Marina more than a simple figurehead leader. Muslim nations do not exactly have great reputation for their women's rights (except Pakistan, one example being the late Benazir Bhutto) especially in the areas where Azadistan is supposed to be. Marina started the series coming off as more of a concession given all the strife the region had.
However, Shirin proved time and again early in the series that she was a very shrewd and capable woman in politics, even if she lacked the position to truly use her intellect and insight.
I took her leaving Marina and changed appearance proves she has a significant chance of being a major player in the second half of the series. Why would the creators bother with the appearance. This isn't Kiddy Grade, where people change appearance (entire bodies) like they change clothes.
I viewed that scene as Shirin deciding her work in Azadistan was done, and now, particularly in a new worldwide government, a person of her caliber can now do quite a great deal. It's not just three large countries with everyone else trapped between anymore.
She's only a throw away character if season 2 rolls around and she's not there at all. I see little value in her presence and actions in the story looking back on just season 1. My concern is that if Marina is not meant to have a bigger part in the future and Shirin also doesn't get any bigger part then her legacy would have been to have given support a low tier secondary character which, in my opinion, is a waste of potential.
If she becomes a politician or something on the world stage I think it would be great, because it would at least put her at secondary character status. But if she turned out to be involved with CB or even Ribbons's faction it would serve make her even more important to the story, since those factions are likely going to have fewer characters attached to them. The more Shirin there is the better.
I'm not sure Ribbons really had a faction of his own until lately. Though he no doubt had the plans but did he have already people working under him? Especially in so far-fetched places as in the government of some third world country? In general I think Ribbons is the kind of dude who would have only a core team of trusted people. In my opinion he's not charismatic enough to lead masses as such, unlike even Corner would have been.
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