What do you think is best to protect Japan Culture, or any culture?

[David75]

A very interresting discussion started in another thread around that subject.
Many times in the past, cultures have disapeared from various reasons (Mayas for example)

Here we can discuss about Japan and the culture there, and how it's possible to protect it.

Some think that tourism may be a threat, as foreigners impose their cultural background when they stay too long in the country.
I do think that japanese people know very well for themselves how to protect their own culture. They probably do not need any advice at all and they should be the ones to decide for themselves.

Threats I see that are more threatning:
As you know, japan population is getting older and new generations aren't enough in number to ensure Japan's future.
It comes from one fact at least: The country is too cramped. So it imposes quite a high price for food, real estate and all of these kinds of basic need younger generations can attain easily.
So they have to work like crazy for their own living, and having a baby becomes a problem... 2 is almost unthinkable.

To me, the struggle of japan lies more in demography than anythin else.
What do you think?

[Board of Command]

Tourism isn't a threat. Tourists don't stay for a prolonged period of time in one place, so it's very hard for them to impose anything on Japanese culture. They're going over to experience Japan's culture, not to bring to them their own culture.

Plus, there are very few tourists in comparison to the whole population of Japan. It's not as if a third of the people in Japan right now are actually foreigners on vacation.

[Sapphire]

Agreed with above.

[Ryllharu]

All they have to do is preserve their cultural identity with landmarks and maintain traditions like the festivals.

Korea (South anyway) does much of the same, though some asshole who didn't think his welfare check was large enough burned down their oldest building (maintained with the original wood from the 1300s). Despite being saddened by the gate's loss, Korea planned to rebuild it just as it was. Korea has also kept up with there traditional clothing in formal settings, and their dining etiquette remains extreme.

Similarly, Japan just has to ensure it doesn't lose it's own cultural identity in their constant modernization. Yes, they are losing some shrines and temples, and maybe the younger generation doesn't care that much anymore about some of their landmarks, but as long as they try, they can maintain their own identity.

It's well documented that American firebomb squadrons were specifically told not to drop upon Kyoto to preserve the historical significance of the city. So we burned Tokyo to the ground instead.


It's not like it doesn't work both ways either. Despite the influx of Western ideals or ways of life, Japan has its own exports. Hawaii celebrates Obon.


As a natural born of one of the "younger" nations in the world, there are many times I envy countries with deep pasts in history, where your cultural history isn't turned into a tourist trap.

[rockmanj]

All they have to do is preserve their cultural identity with landmarks and maintain traditions like the festivals.

Korea (South anyway) does much of the same, though some asshole who didn't think his welfare check was large enough burned down their oldest building (maintained with the original wood from the 1300s). Despite being saddened by the gate's loss, Korea planned to rebuild it just as it was. Korea has also kept up with there traditional clothing in formal settings, and their dining etiquette remains extreme.

[/URL]

Yea, the whole Namdaemun incident was pretty sad, the guy that did it tried to burn some other buildings down before; but then again, the social welfare system here doesnt offer many benefits to the older generations here. Hmm...and as for the traditional dress, that's mainly for ceremonies and special holidays, which is still pretty impressive. (I mean, the culture I was born into...sadly most of us don't really have a true 'culture', but I digress). And I'm not sure if its a good thing or not, but there seems to be a lot of things changing here, especially in business practices in the large corporations. Before, there was no way that a junior (in age) could argue any point to a senior, but now that trend is changing, as long as the junior has the evidence to back it up(lots of other tidbits too).

But another thing that I'd like to bring up is...what about other countries besides Japan and Korea. For example, Brasil and the Philippines. There are a surprising number of Japanese there, and even though its a small enclave, we could talk about that. Or actually Ive noticed things in the Philippines in the form of Korean companies (American too) polluting extremely heavily and also treating the people there like shit. I almost got into a fight with some Koreans there over the way they were badmouthing people, and causing random trouble. So, I'm just saying, Wherever anyone goes, just treat the people with the respect you should give to any other person on the planet.

[Animeniax]

One big step to preserving culture is to remove American bases from foreign countries, specifically Japan and Korea, but also Italy, Germany, etc. There's no more need to maintain a military presence there, and the soldiers run amok on the local populace. I'm ashamed to say that the Japanese authorities look the other way to the crimes and bad influence that soldiers perpetrate on their people, in order to protect their political and economic interests. In today's international climate, countries have allies to augment their own national defense forces, so it's not like the US needs to be there to protect them.

I've met a Japanese born in Brazil. Supposedly there's a decent-sized population in Sao Paolo, and they emigrated there after WW2. Beyond being quiet and somewhat reserved, he was not outwardly Japanese at all. He had a Spanish first name, didn't speak Japanese, and as far as I knew he didn't observe any of their culture. He was basically a Brazilian guy of Japanese descent.

[rockmanj]

Well, as for here, the military bases are supposed to be evacuating soon, but I think that the reason the US has military bases in Japan was because after WW2, Japan made an agreement to only have a domestic military force (that's quite small). Im not sure that they need the US military to protect them, but that's what they are ostensibly for.

I'm against Imperialism as much as anyone though.

[Animeniax]

The US is leaving South Korea? That's good news. Next they need to leave Japan and the rest of Southeast Asia. I heard a lot of soldiers were mad that Korea banned skype and internet phones and forced them to purchase state-owned phone cards at a higher rate in order to make calls to the states. Take that, you yankees!

Japan has a self-defense force with 235,000 soldiers and advanced robot technology. They don't need the US to defend them. Any country that messes with them automatically gets denied exports of Playstations and HDtvs in order to foment civil strife in their own countries to destroy them from within. The Japanese don't f*ck around.

[Buffalobiian]

Tourists or not, I think the thing that impacts on culture the most is the media and upbringing of the new generation. Australia for example, is following the global "Americanism" trend not because we have lots of American tourists, or that they come spreading their culture whilst on trip. It's things like television, radio and the sense of nationalism that the government promotes. All of these are, (or were, we just got a new Prime Minister, he's much more heavily influenced by Chinese culture, so we'll see how things turn out) following the US trend. The only thing I can really call Australian here are probably our sport preference, but even that's changing. If the young aren't educated enough about their own culture, that too is lost in them. We learn jack here about Auzzie history for example, until we reach middle high school, and that's if we choose to study history. Sense of cultural identity is lost. Same with the Japanese. Education, not just sheer knowledge, but teaching them early what it IS to be Japanese. Perhaps Australia was a bad example since we don't have such a deep history like many other countries, but that's all I know really.

For an extreme example of cultural identity crises, see Stolen Generation.

[rockmanj]

I heard a lot of soldiers were mad that Korea banned skype and internet phones and forced them to purchase state-owned phone cards at a higher rate in order to make calls to the states. Take that, you yankees!

J.

Korea banned skype? that's news to me, as I'm using it right this moment...

[Animeniax]

Korea banned skype? that's news to me, as I'm using it right this moment...

Possibly only for their telecom provider to the US bases. I don't remember what all they banned exactly, just that the US soldiers were pretty upset, some saying sh*t like, "we're here to protect them and they try to screw us by charging us more for phone calls to our families in the states." Boo frickin' hoo.

Tourists or not, I think the thing that impacts on culture the most is the media and upbringing of the new generation.

For an extreme example of cultural identity crises, see Stolen Generation.

Good points about raising your children to continue their cultural traditions. The "Stolen Generation" example is pretty sad, but I think white Australia has always had a poor record for mistreating the aborigines and the kangaroos.

[Assertn]

Preserving culture? That's like combating evolution...

What about the Middle ages of Europe? Or the early era of Greek and Roman civilization?
Imagine preserving such cultures to the point where they still exist now. How could these cultures coexist with the rest of the modern world? Sure, you could completely wall them off from the rest of the world, but would they be content with that?

Japan's culture evolved into a form that best utilizes western tools, like a free market. By evolving their culture, they are able to keep up with the trends of other 1st world nations. When faced with a global confrontation of falling behind, a country has two choices...
Either join them or oppose them. I see a lot more advantages in joining than opposing.

[Animeniax]

This will touch a few nerves, but look at modern Great Britain. 5% of the population is Indian/Pakistani, that's 5 million out of 50 million to help you grasp the numbers. In another 50 years, it'll probably be at least 30% of the population. To me it's a giant land grab. It's not like the immigrants are adopting the local culture, they just move there and push out the other residents, meanwhile maintaining their own culture. They might pick up a few influences from the locals, but not enough to even joke about calling it assimilation.

Look at the Chinese, they do the same thing. I was in Amsterdam and there's a Chinatown there. You could hardly tell you were in the Netherlands except for the canal and architecture. Signs and shops looked as foreign to the surrounding community as any other Chinatown. Being yellow myself, I felt a sort of quiet dislike coming from the local Dutch, since they thought I was just another Chinaman in their city.

And the white folks aren't free from this cultural mess either. Look at Australia and their treatment of aborigines. And what's happening in Great Britain is sort of their own damn fault, since they originally colonized India. And don't forget what the British (now Americans) did to the Native Americans.

It's a great big mess.

[Kraco]

What about the Middle ages of Europe? Or the early era of Greek and Roman civilization? Imagine preserving such cultures to the point where they still exist now. How could these cultures coexist with the rest of the modern world? Sure, you could completely wall them off from the rest of the world, but would they be content with that?

Those two periods in the European history are still readily visible not only all over Europe but all over the world.

According to the modern thinking only something that develops is viable. Something that doesn't change is actually stagnating and degrading already. The same thing applies for culture in a very strong manner because culture as a concept is an active thing. An empty land doesn't have any culture, a land with totally passive people wouldn't have much of culture either. Culture is created by the people and in order to be created the people must do an active effort. Thus it's very natural for new generations to want to do things their way.

From what I see, there's little danger of culture in Japan disappearing. Some aspects of it will lose importance and may disappear over time but it's same everywhere. And certainly things like anime and manga and their language spreading all over the world won't affect their culture as we see it in a deteriorating manner. The American culture was heavily spread and strenghtened by movies and TV series and the concept of consumerism, and I could imagine the same happening for the Japanese culture when more and more (younger) people around the world consume their entertainment.

But the long story short it would be no good thing for the Japanese if their culture and society was frozen. I think they learned that well enough during the Edo period anyway...

[Animeniax]

But the long story short it would be no good thing for the Japanese if their culture and society was frozen. I think they learned that well enough during the Edo period anyway...

How so? Where they culturally stagnant and deprived during the Edo period, before Perry and the west entered their lives? I think they were doing just fine.

[Kraco]

Just fine? Well, to be honest I don't really know how well they were doing culturally during that time but considering how the structures of the society were starting to crumble I think the culture must have suffered as well. If you have an ultra conservative government, it basically means new ideas aren't welcome, which means a stagnant culture.

[Animeniax]

The Edo period marked a time in Japan when they were more concerned with internal restructuring and growth, and wanted to limit external influence on the nation while they dealt with these growing pains. I don't know the history that well, but I think the Edo period began with the ending of strife between clans and warring factions, with rule becoming centralized under the Tokugawa shogunate. A lot of advancements and culturally rich work that are seen today came about during the Edo period, even with the isolationist policy.

I think with a country that has a rich culture, you don't need more influencing in order to grow. That kind of growth will see the culture lose some of its identity. A culturally rich society can continue to grow within the confines of its own rules and influences.

[Kraco]

You lose something and you gain something. Even if we ignore the fact that gaining something is essential for basic prosperity in this global world, it's still a fact not everything coming from outside is bad and not everything inside is good. Some things may be even better lost (like treating women as second class citizens). And unlike the French would have you believe, important aspects of a country's old culture aren't automatically lost under foreign influence. People keep and retain what's important to them and they are proud of it.

I'm not saying there would be no value in artificially maintaining many aspects of the old. That is even very important because modern generations are oft lazy bastards, and culture is also a great part of the past and foundation of a nation.

[Assertn]

I pretty much agree with Kraco on this. The only reason old cultures are lost are because the new cultures are more favorable, whether economically or socially. If you try to prohibit it then you're depriving the people within that culture the opportunity to evolve as well.

Frankly, I think its a little arrogant of us to assume we know whats in the best interests for Japan by insinuating that the degradation of their old culture is a serious problem.

[saman]

i agree. diversity for the most part enriches a culture. if you try to make a particular culture stand still while everything around it changes, then it's just going to stagnate and become less appealing over time. not to mention it fosters intolerance and hostility of other cultures.

also there seems to be this idea that the older and more original a culture, the better, which i disagree with. you gotta move with the times, like they say. values and traditions are just that, and one set isn't any better than the other. identities may be lost in the shift, yes, but new ones are also made.