well that his comment became a spoiler is actually your fault by saying so....Originally Posted by Darknodin
i mean what do you think if i say
"i can't wait to see naruto beating the shit out of itachi"
@ abdula
in episode 133 naruto is clearly owning sasuke (for some time), or lets say they are on the same level
it goes like this
sasuke > naruto
naruto(enrage 1) > sasuke
sasuke(sharingan) > naruto
naruto(enrage 2) > sasuke
sasuke(seal-stage 2) > naruto
end of fight
and sasuke barely won...
Well atleast you're consistent, but barely won, come on. First off all in a fight it doesn't matter whether you barely win or you just demolished the person winning is winning. Everything Naruto did was matched or overpowered by Sasuke. If they had fought without using Sharingan, CS, or Kyuubi, Sasuke still would've won. Even if the two of them are on the exact same level Sasuke would still win.
The very fact that Naruto was being forced to use more and more of the Kyuubi's chakra like that was because he was weaker than Sasuke. Yeah Naruto had his moments where he was using the Kyuubi's chakra to over power Sasuke but those didn't last long and ultimately he still lost. Anyway wasn't this originally about Naruto doing well in combat and the fact is Naruto can't do well in combat unless he has something that gives him a distinct advantage over his opponent. If they are on the same level or even if the opponent's level is just below his he will struggle and he doesn't stand a chance against anyone above him.
Last edited by Abdula; Sat, 03-08-2008 at 05:26 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Well i have to agree with abdula there... naruto was 1 step behind sasuke the whole fight, and it it was a sure victory for sasuke, after all the only damage he really sustained was from the cursed seal, naruto didnt even touch him after he went demon mode.
Another sign of naruto's weakness is that he's letting kyuubi do all the fighting.
But hey dont get me wrong, that's what i love about the guy, he's the underdog and he somehow always manages to get by. After a couple of years watching a guy go super mode, than super mode 2 than super mode 3 where it got to the point that if he farted he would probably destroy half the galaxy i welcome this change...
Well I'm not too fond of victory via plot device but that is Naruto's charm.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
well who cares if it is the kyubis power or narutos...
sasuke without a sharingan is nothing special either..
but its fact that naruto wasn't clearly beaten by sasuke
at first he got his ass kicked, then after making his preach (like he always does) he overpowered sasuke multiple times, then sasuke got his "new" sharingan and was able to beat naruto, naruto however leeched even more of the kyuubis power and owned sasuke again, he then had to use his seal (which is also a powersource like the nine-tails) and when chidori and rasengan came together a big explosion made naruto unconscious, and sasuke hobbled (is this the right word to use when you move in an awkward way?) away with big wounds, he was so exhausted that he fell on his knees because of the pain.
and what makes you guys think he didn't even touch him? he flew like 300 meters when naruto kicked his ass and he smashed his fist into sasukes belly several times,he was smashed under the surface by the might of narutos furious fists... he even had to vomit once...
and victory is not always victory, take that fat-ass as an example (choji? or something like that)... without the help of tsunade he would have died, so it was more a draw than a victory.
and naruto isn't weak in combat, whenever he gets access to the nine-tails powers it seems like his brainvolume gets twice as big and he starts to use clever tactics and movements..which is actually funny because people tend to do stupid things if they are enraged, but naruto does the opposite
Last edited by KrayZ33; Sat, 03-08-2008 at 06:35 PM.
You really are a persistent bastard aren't you.. Naruto without Kyuubi is nothing, his whole fighting style is based on the Kyuubi replenishing his chakra supply without it he is nothing. Even the pathetic performance he had against Kiba was only because the Kyuubi was healing his wounds and Kiba's attacks couldn't cause enough damage to negate that.
Sasuke without the sharingan is another story. Without it he is still Sasuke it doesn't define him like the Kyuubi does with Naruto and he is not dependent on it. Besides the Sharingan is his bloodline you can't discount it, its like saying Neji would be nothing without Byakugan you just can't do that. That is their own power its not some freaking demon fox the hokage decided to put inside them.
-Victory is victory despite whatever happened afterwards Choji won that battle fair and square you can't take away his victory because he would have died afterwards because that doesn't change the fact that he won. Survival is a different matter, I mean Sarutobi did defeat Orochimaru right and Yondaime did defeat the Kyuubi. The fact that they both died while their opponents survived doesn't change that they won.
Yeah hobbled is the right word.
Last edited by Abdula; Sat, 03-08-2008 at 06:44 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Well i agree with all that but you have to admit that sarutobi's victory was a moral one lol.
weren't you the one who said that the chakra of naruto and that of the kyuubis doesn't mix?
naruto showed everyone that he has a great amount of chakra and stamina and that happened when he wasn't able to draw power from the kyuubi.
and also
narutos strength, namely the kyuubi, was his greatest weakness.. as a child nobody liked him nobody helped him.. so he had to do nearly everything on his own, there wasn't a father who showed him the fire-jutsu like sasuke's father did
and jiraiya also said that the seal blocked his chakra control, so it was much more difficult to learn anything... he is behind everyone because of his childhood and because of the sealed kyuubi.
edit: do u think"doping" is "fair and square"? u know why choji won, it wasn't because he is strong..
Last edited by KrayZ33; Sat, 03-08-2008 at 06:48 PM.
No not mix that would be different its complicated. I men to the extent that he can't used both at the same time. However I believe that the Kyuubi does constantly replenish his chakra supply. I don't believe there was ever a point where Naruto wasn't able to draw the Kyuubi's power he just wasn't aware that it was happening for example his ability to recover from any injury after one nights sleep was something he had since he was little and that is definitely the Kyuubi's power.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
The 4 hokage's seal doesn't make it harder for naruto to learn jutsu. Im prety sure that you're mixing that up with oros seal when he first went against naruto.
Kyuubi's powers are constantly leaking into Naruto's, but the extent varies a lot. Back in the Chuunin exam arc, Naruto was becoming more capabale with using (back then still considered his own" chakra, but he couldn't use it properly when Oro sealed it until Jiraiya undid it. That pretty much means the fox's powers are flowing constantly, and when that flow's interrupted and becomes irregular, Naruto's body can't cope very well.
edit:
2 different seals.
4th's Seal = 4 season astronomical seal -> seals Kyuubi while allowing access to chakra
Oro's Seal= 5 elemental seal-> stuffs up Kyuubi's flow of chakra
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Sat, 03-08-2008 at 08:09 PM.
I just noticed this little edit and the explanation is very simple because when Naruto is using the Kyuubi's chakra that is the only time he isn't getting his ass handed to him so he has the time to think. No but seriously that is because without the Kyuubi's chakra Naruto doesn't have the ability to perform those few clever little tactics he comes up with so its not that he doesn't or can't think of them its just that he can't use them which is why I say he needs to make himself stronger without relying on the Kyuubi. If Naruto becomes able to use those tactics he uses with the Kyuubi's chakra (just the red chakra not the tail transformations) by himself then just imagine how much better he would be if he then used the Kyuubi's power. Its about goddamn time Naruto becomes a real ninja and stops relying on people to protect him.
OMG you didn't just pull the sad little orphan card now did you because that is just pathetic and what about Neji, nobody taught him anything or Rock Lee or all the other orphans there were, hey wasn't Oro and orphan too.
Secondly Naruto just plain sucks at chakra control it had nothing to with either the 4th's or Oro's seal. As Buffalobiian said, the fourth's seal doesn't interfere with Naruto's chakra control and even before Oro sealed the Kyuubi's power Naruto sucked at chakra control. Remember that is why he wasn't able to perform the clone jutsu which is what prevented him from graduating. It is also why he had difficulty learning to walk up walls and walk on water because all of those require precise chakra control and Naruto just doesn't have that. The very reason he needs to use the shadow clone jutsu to perform the rasengan is because he doesn't have chakra control so he needs three hands to do what others can do with one. It has nothing to do with any seal its purely a talent thing and as Oro said Naruto like Lee doesn't have any.
-Choji is strong and it seems you have never been in an actual fight because duping is fair game.
Last edited by Abdula; Sat, 03-08-2008 at 08:58 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
?
whats duping?
and choji sucks without the pills... which is doping. and doping is not fair..
why do you think choji is strong?
so far he hasn't done anything good.. he sucked in the chuunin exam, he sucked against dosu and he even sucked against this sound 4 guy.. without the pills he would have been dead in like 2 seconds.
well thats not true because both got proper training even in their childhoodOMG you didn't just pull the sad little orphan card now did you because that is just pathetic and what about Neji, nobody taught him anything or Rock Lee or all the other orphans there were, hey wasn't Oro and orphan too.
well at least neji did, i don't know about lee but he got gai later
trueSecondly Naruto just plain sucks at chakra control it had nothing to with either the 4th's or Oro's seal. As Buffalobiian said, the fourth's seal doesn't interfere with Naruto's chakra control and even before Oro sealed the Kyuubi's power Naruto sucked at chakra control. Remember that is why he wasn't able to perform the clone jutsu which is what prevented him from graduating. It is also why he had difficulty learning to walk up walls and walk on water because all of those require precise chakra control and Naruto just doesn't have that. The very reason he needs to use the shadow clone jutsu to perform the rasengan is because he doesn't have chakra control so he needs three hands to do what others can do with one. It has nothing to do with any seal its purely a talent thing and as Oro said Naruto like Lee doesn't have any.
btw everyone is complaining against naruto using his rasengan, unlike jiraya, he can't summon it in an instant, so he needs time to create it...
so how could he possibly use it against kabuto if not this way?
its like the chidori, but as i said, unlike most ninjas naruto doesn't really have to pay attention to his chakra since it is nearly unlimited, so he can use it as often as he likes. it might be boring but it's not like no other characters in the naruto universe do the same... take kabuto for example when he was on the bridge and tried to attack naruto from behind
i was like "omg what the hell is he doing, how is that attack supposed to be usefull?"
and everyone here on the forum said "man he attacked from behind so it was the best way to sneak up to him"
and now naruto just did the same thing and everyone is like "HE'S SO STUPID BECAUSE HIS NAME IS NARUTO AND HE IS THE MAIN CHARACTER"
its just ridicilous..the same goes for all the "omg flashback omgomg wtfux naruto sucks *but i still download every episode and burn them on a cd*"
you know i hate naruto for beeing stupid too, but thats anime and everyone does that... just because naruto is featured in every single episode everyone thinks he's *super* stupid, yet he isn't that much different from other minor characters.
btw what did sakura just do in this episode? the exact same thing.. she even anounced her apeareance with a scream so everyone knows from where she is comming.
Last edited by KrayZ33; Sat, 03-08-2008 at 09:19 PM.
Misread, I thought you wrote duping which would be deceiving your opponent doping would be taking drugs either way it doesn't matter in a fight for your life or to protect someone else. Winning is the only thing. If you want to talk about sucking at everything in the beginning of the series then that description also pretty accurately describes Naruto as well, in fact even now it still holds true. Anyway like the leaf ninjas keep preaching none of that matters, true strength is being able to live by your own nindo and protect your friends and comrades or some bull like that and Choji had that strength when it mattered. Since you're such an adamant Naruto fan I'm sure you won't argue that because that is Naruto's entire existence and if you want to talk about Choji using drugs to give him a power up being unfair what the hell would you say about Naruto because what could be more unnatural and unfair than having a freaking super demon to rely on and what trumps Kyuubi?
What proper training, as far as I know Neji wasn't trained he is a member of the branch family and as such they don't get the training that the head family does. Even so any training he would have got then would have been miniscule. He completely developed all his techniques on his own that is what was said about him and why Hinata's father was so impressed with him it is also why his techniques are different from the other Hyuuga's. Secondly Lee didn't get any training when Gai met him I don't think he was even in the academy because he had no talent whatsoever. He was just a little street kid Gai saw that reminded him of himself. Finally Sasuke didn't get any freaking goddamn training from his father. His father taught him a few seals to do the fire technique and then he died. He didn't get anymore training than Naruto did when Jiraiya taught him the summoning in fact I would say it was far less.well thats not true because both got proper training even in their childhood
well at least neji did, i don't know about lee but he got gai later
Anyway once they all got into the academy they all got formal training and if you want to compare teachers Naruto had freaking Iruka, Kakashi and Jiraiya. What the hell tops that?
Naruto's chakra isn't unlimited or anywhere close to it. The amount of chakra Naruto himself has isn't all that spectacular what matters is that he has the Kyuubi endlessly replenishing that supply. From what I've seen I would say that Pts Naruto only had about as much chakra as Choji was able to generate back when he went butterfly mode and now he only has a bit more than Kakashi does and since he uses such powerful techniques he runs through that chakra really quickly. Which is why you always see him with red eyes or using red chakra because at that point he has already used up all of his own and is relying on the Kyuubi. Just look closely at his fights with Gaara or Sasuke and you should see what I mean.unlike most ninjas naruto doesn't really have to pay attention to his chakra since it is nearly unlimited, so he can use it as often as he likes.
Okay so Naruto gets unfairly judged or whatever so what he is the main character thats what happens. Anyway as for Naruto and Sakura they are both equally inexperienced in battle and both need to grow up. They aren't used to battle and fending for themselves even now they still have Yamato protecting them. That is why nearly every villain they have encountered from Ibiki to Zabuza to Gaara to Akatsuki to Oro and Kabuto have said that they are just playing ninja games as opposed to being real ninja and why despite being the strongest village the leaf's ninjas are viewed as softi was like "omg what the hell is he doing, how is that attack supposed to be usefull?"
and everyone here on the forum said "man he attacked from behind so it was the best way to sneak up to him"
Anyway speaking of protagonist Naruto is unlike any other I've seen. Luffy, Ichigo even Goku had their shortcomings but no one would argue that they are weak. Naruto's abilities on the other hand are completely disputable he is just so well protected by the rules of his world and Kishi's convenient plot devices that even though he has defeated some strong opponents I can't really say that he is strong at all or that X opponent wouldn't stand a chance against him. I don't know if its just me but everything seems to have just been handed to Naruto and even so he still can't use what he has properly. I can't seem to give Naruto any credit for any of his victories and despite seeing him fight countless times I still don't know what level he is on. Even at this point it still seems that Naruto is just relying on what was given to him instead of developing his own strength, Its just weird if you ask me.
Last edited by Abdula; Sun, 03-09-2008 at 12:35 AM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Just adding in some observations since I don't like when Abula makes assertions that aren't true when he's trying to make a point I agree with.
It's the Hyuuga branch families job to protect the head family members, they get trained in the Gentle Fist style right along side the Head family members (see the scene where Neji's dad is training with Hinata), however the Head family passes down the 'secret techniques' like the Kaiten only amongst themselves. Neji figured out on his own what the original creator of those techniques must have figured out, which is certainly commendable, but he wasn't completely self made.
Lee was in the Academy when he encountered Gai. that's where he was made fun of for not being able to use ninjutsu or genjutsu.
And while the question of Naruto's natural chakra capacity hasn't really been addressed in the anime, comparing it directly to any specific character besides Kisame's clone seems pretty baseless. But I think it's moot anyway, post time skip Naruto goes red-eyed when he gets angry and wants to kill someone, not just when he's exhausted and trying to hang on to life. Against the Itachi clone, chasing Diedara and on the bridge he went red eyes without having expended much chakra at all. If he can pull on the Kyubii whenever he's pissed then it's hard to say that he's not using 'his own' power since it was established he would need control to be able to pull on the the Kyubii chakra while his own was in the way.
But that said I do agree the problem with Naruto is just plain lack of skill. Regardless of the amount of chakra he has access to his movements are always bumbly and wasteful thus easily avoided by all the skilled fighters and that's why he's little threat to anyone on his own.
If he practiced hardcore on something like summoning or high level hand to hand combat, or just speed, he might actually be dangerous, but as it is I didn't see Kabuto having any more trouble embarrassing his clones now than before the skip. Without resorting to tricks (which is a legitimate strategy) or Kyubii-Berserker over kill (which is horribly inefficient) Naruto doesn't seem capable of taking down anyone.
Last edited by Yukimura; Mon, 03-10-2008 at 10:54 AM.
Did you guys notice how freakishly pale Sai looked like...
Hakke Rokujūyon Shō!
Yeah... since the first time i saw him XD
Anyway about naruto's chakra, we do know that he has a huge amount of chakra even without the nine tails, kakashi said it while trhy were training tree climbing and his stamina has been mentioned various times. Also, his chakra and the red chakra are separeted, that's why jiraya had him exaust himself before trying to use summon jutsu, so that he would be forced to use the red chakra.
Can anyone tell me where's the spoiler here? Some dumb fuck gave me bad rep because of the "spoiler" i gave... lol wtf asshole??
Another person gave me bad rep saying that i was dumb and that sasuke was stronger than naruto... WTF asshole did u even read the fucking post or are u just completely retarded??? Thats my point exactly morron.
Is there any way we can find out just who this idiots are?
Welcome to the Naruto Forum thats how it is. You'll get used to the idiots who neg rep you every post and the people who neg rep you because they happen to disagree with what you say and the people who neg rep you just because they can't read and comprehend. I'm sure this post will earn me a couple more too.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
its not like rep is important... you won't die because you get bet a bad rep on the internetz lulz
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