The premise for the sudden ease with which they pilot the mobile suits is simple. It pilots the same way, only better. Its like being given the same ps2 control pad, with the previous one being old and worn down, while the other is new. It just means that they were being limited by the machines before, and that not much (or nothing) has changed with how to control it.
Peace.
Note: I'm playing devil's advocate here, I have no problem with immaculate Gundam skills.
Gundams are much faster and more agile than the suits currently out there, thus the same control motions that worked on an old suit should produce much more of an effect in the new suits (barring any calibration limitations) and it's not like any of these new pilots have ever had a suit that can respond as well as a Gundam.
In the case of Soma, I can see it not being as hard since she's used to feeling held back by her hardware. However all the other pilots are used to what they had before and used to it being the best available. When they push the throttle forward X amount they are used to their suit responding by moving a distance of Y. On a Gundam the same X motion on the controls is not going to produce a mere Y position change unless all of the enhanced abiilites of the Gundam have been calibrated out before hand. Since the new Gundams were keeping pace with the Trinities I think it's safe to assume these suits have not been calibrated to respond like old Tierens but to respond like Gundams. For that reason there should need to be time for them to get acquainted with the enhanced abilities of the new suits so that when the wanted to move the suit only Y distance they would have a feel for how much to push the new controls. It's like getting accustomed to playing an FPS with a standard mouse, then switching to a high performance mouse with the sensitivity set to maximum. Until you get used to it you're naturally going to overcompensate all over the place.
You have valid points, Yuki, but you are forgetting one thing (although the series itself is forgetting it as well often enough). It's the future. Even today the most modern fighter jets would be useless in the air if their computer controls broke down. Now, something like a giant man shaped robot flying in the air wouldn't stay there for a second (or to be precise it would stay there for as long as it would take to drop down) without a highly sophisticated AI controlling system. We can thus assume the pilot has it actually pretty easy up there, probably much easier than the fighter or helicopter pilots of our days. And thus when they get a superior mobile suit, it will either fly steadily by an unexperienced pilot or perform crazy stunts by somebody like Graham, Ali or Soma. However, it won't crash down even if the pilot is somewhat unaccustomed to it because in the end it's the AI that's keeping it in the air at all in the first place.
What comes to the HRL decision, once again, the Throne was decimating one of their bases, killing people and destroying property and equipment. It might have been wise to be careful with their brand new equipment but you don't need to be a klingon to say avoiding the fight because of that would have been an epitome of cowardice and it would have sent many more people to their deaths if the Throne had been left unchecked in their murderous ways.
The control system and magically being able to pilot them I give a little more lenience for a few reasons.
The first reason they actually had to Pilot the new suits from a secondary base to the one under attack. They didn't just come out of a hanger so they had a little time to adjust. That is assuming the controls are the same and as they only had guns and beam sabers with no special weapons used thats exceptable. Also only 2 of the HRL pilots did anything and those were both established characters who I can believe were good enough in a mobile suit to adjust while the rest just flew in formation and shot at the Thrones who didn't really even try and kill anyone else they just ran off to get more information.
@Kraco regarding that scene that is one of the ones I rechecked and I want to see what conclave/Mendo do with it. The scene just seems incorrect based on all of the visuals. a claim is made in the subs that they brought them mobile suit where the GN drives were already installed and thats not possible because of the scenes I mentioned in both 19 and 20. Its possible suits were also given to them at another location but I don't find it plausible they received suits and gn drives from the location shown at the end of 19. If they did receive the suits from somewhere else it would have been nice to see.
Now also note with these new suits. They don't know whats inside the GN drives. The GN drives are the kind used in the throne gundams with red particles and not the kind used in the original Gundams. So your talking about trusting these from the new more aggressive Gundams and putting your aces into them without even researching any of the suits? Everyone got 10 and being the HRL still had 10 nothing was taken apart to look for say remote self destruct devices nor did they determine how to recharge the GN drives which being they have red particles have a limited amount of operation time. Plus even if all 7.
As for your overwhelming numbers argument. 9 suits is still a 3 to 1 advantage over the thrones who you know have been acting on their own at this point so there is almost no difference between sending 9 or 10 of the new suits to play the numbers game.
While I agree that sending 9 instead of 10 would probably have made no difference, the truth is that if they had sent 9 and studied the one remaining they likely wouldn't have learned anything at all in the insignificant time the operation took. So, it would have been practically speaking 9 suits in combat and one sitting at home.Originally Posted by DDBen
Who knows about the translation. But if they needed to travel all the way to Jupiter to manufacture the blue GN drives, the red ones could also have peculiar requirements. The suits, however, probably can be manufactured anywhere. That's why it would even make sense if they were made in different places. And although the super powers have no intelligence services it would still make sense for the tycoon to disperse the manufacturing of common components here and there and then have the parts later put together somewhere else to make tracking their origins harder.
I also agree the mission time alone would have made no difference in examining the suit/gn drive. However, we are not talking about a 30 minute window we are talking about 3 days at least of wasted time in not starting work to understanding the suit. My point here is do they have any spare weapons for these suits? If not they had better learn how to make them. They need to learn how long they can operate for without being recharged. They need to learn how to recharge them. They need to learn how to destroy the other Gundams and checking for a weakness in the GN drives might give them that edge. They need to learn if they are booby trapped for say remote detonation. There is tons of stuff that R&D should be looking into from the moment you find something like that even if you MUST use most of them in combat because you have zero other options to deal with the Gundams.
As far as GN drives go I believe ALL of them must be made on Jupiter the difference is the core power supply. Apparently the red ones have a limited amount of power output while the gold ones are able to operate independently forever. As all of the ones the Earth powers got are emitting red they are limited in there overall operational usage even if we have no idea what that time limit is.
Also I agree the suits can likely be made anywhere as far as we know the frame itself is nothing all that special all I said is it would be nice to have a better explanation of where they magically got 30 suits because it wasn't from the base at the end of 19. I mean its a given the had to also be handed the suits and weapons for those GN drives to have any use at all but I wish they took the extra time to explain where they came from. At this point we have never seen a GN drive destroyed for all we know you can't even blow them up so even just being able to make replacement frames for the GN drives you have could be extremely beneficial. Given if they were given plans to make the frames thats less relevant and you should only need to examine a GN Drive.
i seem to have forgotten... where did they state how long it had been since the last episode? They've made it quite a habit to skip a considerable amount of time during some episodes, so I'd simply assumed that happened this time too.
also, I refuse to participate in the "realism" debate for this episode beyond this one sentence: "Is it really worth our time arguing?"
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
From the looks of this episode the 3 powers immediately made the announcement after finding GN drives and presumably being given mobile suits. Then we saw everyones immediate reaction and them stating distro has gone well. That should have all taken place within at most a day. Then Trinity talks about how they have had no contact after the Gundam fight took place and say it will be 3 days until the next operation. As such its pretty safe to say this episode took place over 3 or 4 days time. There was also no mention of a time skip or interventions being done by anyone after the last episode.
They really could use time stamps under the location headings it would help this show out quite a bit. Note though if more time has passed it only makes more sense they would have dismantled and be examining one of the new suits/drives they were randomly handed. It does seem there was a one day delay on Trinity receiving orders so the new drives/suits could be distributed.
I have no doubt they have all studied the new suits and GN drives. For example the screenshots I posted indicate the Union at least has been scanning them. The HRL should have been doing the same, logic alone dictates. But apparently they haven't been ready to possibly break one of the units by disassembling it. Yet. That's why it was all the same to send all of them to the battlefield just to make sure they have the absolute superiority of power, I deem.
They have no way of even detecting Gundams due to the GN particles so what makes you think they can get anything from a scan of the outside of a GN Drive? If they could do that in any way they would have some way to locate Gundams aside from sending out thousands of probes and looking for what ones don't work. Those were essentially just pictures of it and provided no more information then they already knew from pictures of the Gundams. You can't understand technology thats decades ahead of anything you have with a quick scan you need to take it apart so you can figure out how it works while documenting everything.
Its possible you can't open a GN drive safely being they can only be made on Jupiter. Not only that but the unions head scientist is dead and the his apprentice is pretty heavily injured. Its somewhat possible though the union will be the ones to take apart a gundam in order to learn about the tech and due to the agreement they will share that information with the other powers but its fairly unlikely thats the reason.
Those screen shots could indicate almost anything and most likely all they really show is dimension for the external view entered into a cad like program.
The dormant drives don't seem to be emitting too much of those particles. The stealth abilities might very well be something the pilot needs to enable, or it might be due to the particles emitted when the drive is powered up and keeping a Gundam in the air; so, a side effect or purposeful alteretion of the particle properties. In any case I doubt anything else in a Gundam is so resistent to whatever scanning and probing methods they have. Just the drive (and the frame when it's surrounded by the particles emitted by the drive).
And I don't know why you say you can't detect a Gundam. They are bloody visible to the naked eye in full colour. That alone tells the particles readily let the whole visible spectrum of electromagnetism to pass. Who knows what other wave lengths not to mention totally different kind of scanning methods would be available.
But of course breaking one into pieces would be more useful. However, they are rare toys.
Exvept the HRL already captured Kyrios in the past so any quicky scans they could have managed on a dormant Gundam would already have taken place. They couldn't really figure out anything when they had him however so aside from pictures I think its safe to say you can't just run up and scan a Gundam without proper CB technology. As when Captured Kyrios wasn't emitting the particles yet still resistant to anything they attempted to from cutting it open to finding a way to open it.
These Gundams of course seem to be more of the knock off variety so certain parts of that may not matter and the suits were not originally attached to the suits so they might have been able to scan those. Regardless of that though the drive makes particles and whatever the particles are made of is what prevents scanning so internal pictures of one of the GN drives would have to be completely impossible without taking the thing apart. Everyone has been trying to get a hold of a Gundam for this entire series to attempt to reverse engineer one so them ignoring that option as soon as they get some is totally illogical
Also I'm sorry but I still kind of see the free Gundams as some form of trojin horse I just don't see what CB hopes to gain by handing out 30 suits like that in the first place.
The CB? I was under the impression they were given to the three powers by the railway tycoon. Lately I've been believing he doesn't much care for any ideology behind the CB. Well, of course we don't know everything yet, so who knows, but I think he had a reason to give those 30 units, and the reason isn't anything as stupid as to blow them up afterwards. The three powers have unlimited mansupply, unlike the Throne or the CB, and so losing 10 pilots wouldn't be that big of a deal, even if Graham has been established as an exceptional pilot. But the Union alone probably has thousands of pilots so given a chance, they likely would have 50 Grahams if they needed.
The 30 units could be a trap of a far more elaborate nature, though. Like to bound the three powers somehow if they feel those units are their only hope. We don't simply yet have enough information.
woohoo these new gundam look awesome don't they? i wonder if they all look like this, or if the union etc. have different ones.
in case you missed it the Railroad tycoon is part of CB. Its also clear the Gundams were handed out to the powers as "stage 3" of whatever is trying to be accomplished in order to change the world. Stage 3 obviously happens whenever the stage 1 Gundams fight the stage 2 Gundams.
What any of this means your guess is as good as mine but it was certainly part of the plan to hand out the Gundams and not a completely random action by a individual.
@KrayZ33
I can't believe there are not going to be 3 different models 1 for each major power there is no way they would pass up a chance to sell more model kits with a Gundam series.
I can't believe there are not going to be 3 different models 1 for each major power there is no way they would pass up a chance to sell more model kits with a Gundam series.[/QUOTE]
I thought that the more the merier when it comes to model kit selling.
Like buying the "Three New Superpower Suit Set".
Atleast they had that idea in Gundam SEED/Destiny, giving almost everyfreakingpilot a new suit every half'n'hour.
little soul your dreams are waitin'
crapping up...
hold them closely
never let go, never let go... <3
They're mass production models (well, "mass production" of 30 for Gundams is pretty impressive). Gundams in G were all individually hand-created and maintained, not too unlike CB's secretly created with the true Solar Furnaces. I don't think the ones Billy and Graham where looking at were any different.
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But, if anime has taught me anything, being mass production models, they'll either get possessed by the enemy, forcing Setsuna to kill his good friend Saji (who secretly became a pilot) or all go berserk and eat Tieria because he is a tsundere and too pretty for his own good.
I was under the impression that the "mass produced" gundams were also created by the Celestial Being Traitor (not just the GN drives). I'm sure the different nations will develop their own custom models in the months to come. We've got lots more episodes left.
Man, they just keep pilling unfortunate accidents on Sagi. Give the man a break!
I do hope we see a time jump through the season change. It doesn't really have to be more than two years or so.
Positive side is that Saji wont be the engineering brat that gets his own suit in space like many other series... Atleast he has put a few years on his mind.
Fanboy-ism: Graham, the man who's clinging onto his own pride, will have his (and others) upgraded, duh!. Maybe he finaly has to swallow a lil' of his own to have his suit somehow custom made with GN-whatevers.
Negative side are though extremly heavier......
They need to upgrade the current regular suit for each military power, upgrade the current Gundam and special suits.
An outwar is can also be an effect being now that each country trying to stand on it's own by having the newer military equipment, thus making CB's first plan a failure (wich they WILL try to repair by wierd means).
The problem is just open scale war, flashy-dashy scenes and lesser plots and many other things looses it's meaning..
Overall, a new party is introduced or they introcuse more homies into Alejandro's gang.
The Trinities, who are introduced as the evil onces..they still really has no position in the series ecxept being dumb, annoying and more a harder wall to break.
Firstly, will they join the evil ones and secondly join the good ones, now knowing their mistake?
Eh =) ?
...or maybe my thoughts, guesses and speculation forever stained by Gundam SEED Destinys flaw..
Damn, I need to sleep.
Last edited by Chiodos; Sun, 03-02-2008 at 05:04 PM.
little soul your dreams are waitin'
crapping up...
hold them closely
never let go, never let go... <3
You need to watch something that doesn't take itself seriously, and is full of pointless destruction and violence. You need G Gundam.
I can't see Saji becoming a pilot, but rather a sidekick/equivalent to Billy (maybe, maybe not in one of the other nations). He's an engineering brat, but he has no skill for piloting, and Anno Domini has been going for the more sensible route of pilots needing at least a few years of training to be anything decent. Granted, the Gundams do seem to aid their pilots a lot, but look at Patrick. The AEUs "ace" (though I wonder if Kathy Mannequin is better than he is) but he gets owned by everyone.
Graham might get the Overflag retrofit with one of the fake furnaces, but if you think about it, all he needs is something to be an inertial compensator like the all GN furnace units have. If he could take any less of a beating, there would probably be no one that can take him on.
I want to see Soma return to her Taozi. Now that she has the new suit, it doesn't seem too likely, but she didn't get enough action in it. I still think it has the potential to take the severe beatings of the Gundams and maybe show them up, but the old suit needs better armaments.
I don't know what Alejandro is up to, but I'm sure that Libbons (Livonvze, however you want to spell it), is using him. Perhaps once he is done with him, Libbons will move on to Wang Luimei, who seemed to approve of their methods anyway. She's turned rather abruptly.
I kinda want Tieria to go full blown feminine. He's been "softening" up recently, and if Nadleeh's going to get more action, it just seems likely.
But then we've got Setsuna. He's gonna turn pacifist. I just know it...
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