Do you agree? Women and children first?

[SamuraiOdin]

I would save the women and children first, because I have faith and confidence in my ability to save myself once everyone else is ok. I'd even stick around to save other guys who needed help. In giving of myself to save these others, karma and the cosmos would do their parts to make sure I got out ok too.

Though I always say, us nice guys finish last.

What about a situation like the Titanic? It was women and children first, and they didn't have enough lifeboats... So, if you give up all the available spots... are you still confident enough to survive a sinking ship?

[Animeniax]

What about a situation like the Titanic? It was women and children first, and they didn't have enough lifeboats... So, if you give up all the available spots... are you still confident enough to survive a sinking ship?

Sure why not. I'd jump on a piece of wood or deck chair or into a bathtub and float to safety, probably more comfortably than those in the lifeboats. Karma would guide me to shore. I might have a case of the chills and maybe some frostbite, but I'd also have the peace of mind that I did the right thing. If nothing else, I'd do a backstroke to return to civilization.

[Idealistic]

Sure why not. I'd jump on a piece of wood or deck chair or into a bathtub and float to safety, probably more comfortably than those in the lifeboats. Karma would guide me to shore. I might have a case of the chills and maybe some frostbite, but I'd also have the peace of mind that I did the right thing. If nothing else, I'd do a backstroke to return to civilization.

How about a lava pit, and the platform can only hold so many while waiting for a rescue chopper to arrive.

Dun dun dun!

[David75]

Maybe we also have to highlight some facts:
We are speaking theoretically. I guess no one had to face such events.

There are two main streams of ideas:
Chivalry
Survival of mankind.

Honestly, in our lives the probability of being in a situation where you have to choose beetween saving your life or other ones is extremely low.

Probability for one where you have to worry about the survival of mankind is even lower.

So mentionning the fact that you have to save children and women because and be careful to have enough males for reproduction is a tad extreme, isn't it?

So I guess we can focus on the dire situation where you have to choose beetween yourself and others.

Keeping in mind you probably don't know about your own instincts regarding such situations.

[Kraco]

Yeah. The whole discussion is purely speculative for most of us. I reckon nobody of us has been aboard of a sinking ship. And even if someone had been, these days they have plenty of lifeboats and rafts. And in theory they should also have plenty of staff trained to use them and thus customers of either sex aren't necessary to stand there organising stuff until the ship sinks. So, it would be even meaningful for every man to try to save his own skin. However, I also deem it somewhat likely most of us would risk it to help some lost child separated from her parents when running to the deck and the lifeboats, simply because if you had been in a similar situation, you'd have wanted to be saved.

One interesting thing about the men's instinct is that it has been used as an explanation (or excuse?) of why women in the past were prevented from serving in the military in combat roles. It was said it would endanger operations because the men would go out of their way to save or protect female comrades, taking unnecessary risks.

[Death BOO Z]

I view the sentence in a diffrent way.

in a sinking boat, men have an adventage becuase of thier physice', and it can cause a situation of 'everyone to himself", which would lead to men pushing over the women and children.
point is, that men, as the stronger group in that situation, should take special means to ensure the safety of the weaker groups, since if things turn to worse (water level rises, a fire breakes out), men still have the better chance at survival than the women.

Chevilary towards women is bullshit, it happens only becuase men believe that all women share information about potentiel spouses. so that whenever a guy helps an ugly woman, he's actually trying to score with her hot friend.

[David75]

I view the sentence in a diffrent way.

in a sinking boat, men have an adventage becuase of thier physice', and it can cause a situation of 'everyone to himself", which would lead to men pushing over the women and children.
point is, that men, as the stronger group in that situation, should take special means to ensure the safety of the weaker groups, since if things turn to worse (water level rises, a fire breakes out), men still have the better chance at survival than the women.

Chevilary towards women is bullshit, it happens only becuase men believe that all women share information about potentiel spouses. so that whenever a guy helps an ugly woman, he's actually trying to score with her hot friend.

unfortunately, women have a better chance of surviving in cold water than men.
You can google a bit for more details

[Animeniax]

When I see men being non chivalrous towards women, I go out of my way to make them pay for it. If we were on the theoretical sinking ship and I saw a man pushing women and children out of his way to save himself, he'd be dead meat. I'd chuck a harpoon at his head. If for nothing else, who would want to be the lone coward of a man on a lifeboat full of women and children?

@David75: I imagine its because of women's higher body fat percentage that makes them able to survive longer in cold temps. I saw some science show where a fat guy and a skinny guy sat in a freezer locker and they measured their body temps. The skinny guy shivered more and had a lower body temp and had to leave sooner.

[David75]

@David75: I imagine its because of women's higher body fat percentage that makes them able to survive longer in cold temps. I saw some science show where a fat guy and a skinny guy sat in a freezer locker and they measured their body temps. The skinny guy shivered more and had a lower body temp and had to leave sooner.

Correct. Fat percentage, and also how the fat is placed in the body are two of the main points explaining why women tend to have better resistance.
It seems they are also better equiped towards pain, be it strong and short, or moderate but for a longer time.

For example it seems that some women are top rank in endurance swiming in cold water (typically swiming for very long distance/time in the ocean or similar type of events.)

So I guess there's only chivalry left

[Junior]

ya, its women and children first cuz of chivalry and such, which comes from the natural instinct of men to be the protectors and such...perhaps not as applicable now, but its hardwired into out genes, so its tough to ignore.

However, my one quibble with the women and children first issue, is the feminist movement. logically speaking, the benefit of a child surviving outweigh the benefits of and average man surviving. However, with the sexual equality movement and the hordes of pmsing 40 something women whining about how they deserve to be treated as equals, and how they dont need a man take care of them, im all for removing the 'women' part from 'women and children first'.

....atleast where the feminists are concerned.

I actually thought about the feminist thing. XD

Can someone explain...chivalry to me? I googled it but wikipedia was a bit confusing.

[Abdula]

1. qualities of ideal knight: the combination of qualities expected of the ideal medieval knight, especially courage, honor, loyalty, and consideration for others, especially women

2. chivalrous behavior: considerate and courteous behavior, especially shown by a man toward women

3. medieval knighthood: the medieval concept of knighthood, and the customs, practices, social system, and religious and personal ideals associated with knights and their way of life

I agree with David and Ani especially this:

When I see men being non chivalrous towards women, I go out of my way to make them pay for it. If we were on the theoretical sinking ship and I saw a man pushing women and children out of his way to save himself, he'd be dead meat. I'd chuck a harpoon at his head. If for nothing else, who would want to be the lone coward of a man on a lifeboat full of women and children?

Apparently unlike most of you I have been in situations like these on multiple occasions but maybe I've just had an exciting life and I grew up around people who are willing to and often sacrifice themselves for others but that is just me.

To you guys who are so worried about dying, death isn't that scary and you will die someday and sometimes losing your life is worth the sacrifice. If you die trying to save someone its just the price you pay. I could never disrespect someone who gives their life for someone else.

Really all you guys going on and on about self preservation are just a bunch of cowards.

[XanBcoo]

That's pretty presumptuous of you, Abdula.

I think I agree with Kraco's answer:

Yeah. The whole discussion is purely speculative for most of us. I reckon nobody of us has been aboard of a sinking ship. And even if someone had been, these days they have plenty of lifeboats and rafts. And in theory they should also have plenty of staff trained to use them and thus customers of either sex aren't necessary to stand there organising stuff until the ship sinks. So, it would be even meaningful for every man to try to save his own skin. However, I also deem it somewhat likely most of us would risk it to help some lost child separated from her parents when running to the deck and the lifeboats, simply because if you had been in a similar situation, you'd have wanted to be saved.

Most of this is speculation. In the sinking ship scenario, if you don't have a reason to sacrifice yourself, then you shouldn't. There's always the fact that you will be able to help more people if you are alive, rather than being irrational and throwing your life away for an ideal. I'm not saying people wouldn't help and not be selfless (because I know I would, or at least would like to be), but you'd really have to take every factor into account here.

Edit: Animeniax also has a pretty reasonable answer. If you feel confident in your ability to save yourself, then go ahead and help everyone else. lol bathtub.

[Animeniax]

Wow, Xan accusing me of being reasonable. That's a first.

Unfortunately it's probably overconfidence in my ability to save myself that would spell my doom. For instance, I doubt I could seriously backstroke to safety. I'm not that strong a swimmer.

@Idealistic: is this volcano in Japan? Cause I'd sacrifice myself to save some Japanese chicks.

[XanBcoo]

Wow, Xan accusing me of being reasonable. That's a first.

I decided to ignore your suggestion that you could backstroke your way home because hey why not?

Also the idea of you floating around the mid-Atlantic in a bathtub for several days made me laugh.

[darkshadow]

That's pretty presumptuous of you, Abdula.

I think I agree with Kraco's answer:

There's always the fact that you will be able to help more people if you are alive, rather than being irrational and throwing your life away for an ideal.

Thats what I said, thats def. the smartest thing to do.
Its also the reason why in those disaster instruction vids on planes they tell you to put your own mask on first, same with boats and life jackets.

[Assassin]

Apparently unlike most of you I have been in situations like these on multiple occasions but maybe I've just had an exciting life and I grew up around people who are willing to and often sacrifice themselves for others but that is just me.

To you guys who are so worried about dying, death isn't that scary and you will die someday and sometimes losing your life is worth the sacrifice. If you die trying to save someone its just the price you pay. I could never disrespect someone who gives their life for someone else.

Really all you guys going on and on about self preservation are just a bunch of cowards.

you've been in multiple life threatening situations like fires, sinking ships, bank robberies etc? care to give us some details?

And you hardly have the right to call anyone a coward for following the most basic of human instincts. If you really feel that wanting to save your life instead of sacrificing it for someone else is cowardly, feel free to fly to darfur or some other war torn country and gie your life for a family. I'll even pay for your ticket.

As for chivalry, even though its described as the being very 'knight like', the vast majority of medieval knights were fairly brutal and unchivalrous. They had power and status, and with no one to tell them otherwise, they could pretty much do anything they liked to anyone of a lower status.

[Abdula]

Yeah I have, actually I thought most people have been but I guess not. No I don't care to give any details. As for calling people cowards its well within my rights but I just felt like some of the comments were just cowardly.

rather than being irrational and throwing your life away for an ideal.

I said nothing of the sort.

[Board of Command]

I can't swim. If the boat is sinking and nobody saves me because I'm a guy, I'd be pretty pissed and for good reason.

[Abdula]

Lol, that would be pretty funny.

You can just hop in Animeniax's bathtub.

He can be the captain and you will be his first mate. I guess you can fashion some sort of flag out of the clothes of dead children or something.

Wow just imagine that. I don't think the tub would be able to contain that much nerd.

[XanBcoo]

I said nothing of the sort.

I was getting that vibe. Unless you're at the point of knocking over women and children to get yourself to safety, I'm going defend self-preservation. There's nothing cowardly about it and it doesn't imply selfishness.

I can't swim. If the boat is sinking and nobody saves me because I'm a guy, I'd be pretty pissed and for good reason.

You can just hop in Animeniax's bathtub.

He can be the captain and you will be his first mate. I guess you can fashion some sort of flag out of the clothes of dead children or something. I really don't know how that fits in with the whole Chivalry thing.