Do you agree? Women and children first?

[Board of Command]

I'm not sexist, nor am I a pedophile.

Therefore I save myself first.

[Kraco]

Yeah. The whole discussion is purely speculative for most of us. I reckon nobody of us has been aboard of a sinking ship. And even if someone had been, these days they have plenty of lifeboats and rafts. And in theory they should also have plenty of staff trained to use them and thus customers of either sex aren't necessary to stand there organising stuff until the ship sinks. So, it would be even meaningful for every man to try to save his own skin. However, I also deem it somewhat likely most of us would risk it to help some lost child separated from her parents when running to the deck and the lifeboats, simply because if you had been in a similar situation, you'd have wanted to be saved.

One interesting thing about the men's instinct is that it has been used as an explanation (or excuse?) of why women in the past were prevented from serving in the military in combat roles. It was said it would endanger operations because the men would go out of their way to save or protect female comrades, taking unnecessary risks.

[Death BOO Z]

I view the sentence in a diffrent way.

in a sinking boat, men have an adventage becuase of thier physice', and it can cause a situation of 'everyone to himself", which would lead to men pushing over the women and children.
point is, that men, as the stronger group in that situation, should take special means to ensure the safety of the weaker groups, since if things turn to worse (water level rises, a fire breakes out), men still have the better chance at survival than the women.

Chevilary towards women is bullshit, it happens only becuase men believe that all women share information about potentiel spouses. so that whenever a guy helps an ugly woman, he's actually trying to score with her hot friend.

[David75]

I view the sentence in a diffrent way.

in a sinking boat, men have an adventage becuase of thier physice', and it can cause a situation of 'everyone to himself", which would lead to men pushing over the women and children.
point is, that men, as the stronger group in that situation, should take special means to ensure the safety of the weaker groups, since if things turn to worse (water level rises, a fire breakes out), men still have the better chance at survival than the women.

Chevilary towards women is bullshit, it happens only becuase men believe that all women share information about potentiel spouses. so that whenever a guy helps an ugly woman, he's actually trying to score with her hot friend.

unfortunately, women have a better chance of surviving in cold water than men.
You can google a bit for more details

[Animeniax]

When I see men being non chivalrous towards women, I go out of my way to make them pay for it. If we were on the theoretical sinking ship and I saw a man pushing women and children out of his way to save himself, he'd be dead meat. I'd chuck a harpoon at his head. If for nothing else, who would want to be the lone coward of a man on a lifeboat full of women and children?

@David75: I imagine its because of women's higher body fat percentage that makes them able to survive longer in cold temps. I saw some science show where a fat guy and a skinny guy sat in a freezer locker and they measured their body temps. The skinny guy shivered more and had a lower body temp and had to leave sooner.

[David75]

@David75: I imagine its because of women's higher body fat percentage that makes them able to survive longer in cold temps. I saw some science show where a fat guy and a skinny guy sat in a freezer locker and they measured their body temps. The skinny guy shivered more and had a lower body temp and had to leave sooner.

Correct. Fat percentage, and also how the fat is placed in the body are two of the main points explaining why women tend to have better resistance.
It seems they are also better equiped towards pain, be it strong and short, or moderate but for a longer time.

For example it seems that some women are top rank in endurance swiming in cold water (typically swiming for very long distance/time in the ocean or similar type of events.)

So I guess there's only chivalry left

[XanBcoo]

That's pretty presumptuous of you, Abdula.

I think I agree with Kraco's answer:

Yeah. The whole discussion is purely speculative for most of us. I reckon nobody of us has been aboard of a sinking ship. And even if someone had been, these days they have plenty of lifeboats and rafts. And in theory they should also have plenty of staff trained to use them and thus customers of either sex aren't necessary to stand there organising stuff until the ship sinks. So, it would be even meaningful for every man to try to save his own skin. However, I also deem it somewhat likely most of us would risk it to help some lost child separated from her parents when running to the deck and the lifeboats, simply because if you had been in a similar situation, you'd have wanted to be saved.

Most of this is speculation. In the sinking ship scenario, if you don't have a reason to sacrifice yourself, then you shouldn't. There's always the fact that you will be able to help more people if you are alive, rather than being irrational and throwing your life away for an ideal. I'm not saying people wouldn't help and not be selfless (because I know I would, or at least would like to be), but you'd really have to take every factor into account here.

Edit: Animeniax also has a pretty reasonable answer. If you feel confident in your ability to save yourself, then go ahead and help everyone else. lol bathtub.

[Animeniax]

Wow, Xan accusing me of being reasonable. That's a first.

Unfortunately it's probably overconfidence in my ability to save myself that would spell my doom. For instance, I doubt I could seriously backstroke to safety. I'm not that strong a swimmer.

@Idealistic: is this volcano in Japan? Cause I'd sacrifice myself to save some Japanese chicks.

[XanBcoo]

Wow, Xan accusing me of being reasonable. That's a first.

I decided to ignore your suggestion that you could backstroke your way home because hey why not?

Also the idea of you floating around the mid-Atlantic in a bathtub for several days made me laugh.

[darkshadow]

That's pretty presumptuous of you, Abdula.

I think I agree with Kraco's answer:

There's always the fact that you will be able to help more people if you are alive, rather than being irrational and throwing your life away for an ideal.

Thats what I said, thats def. the smartest thing to do.
Its also the reason why in those disaster instruction vids on planes they tell you to put your own mask on first, same with boats and life jackets.

[Abdula]

1. qualities of ideal knight: the combination of qualities expected of the ideal medieval knight, especially courage, honor, loyalty, and consideration for others, especially women

2. chivalrous behavior: considerate and courteous behavior, especially shown by a man toward women

3. medieval knighthood: the medieval concept of knighthood, and the customs, practices, social system, and religious and personal ideals associated with knights and their way of life

I agree with David and Ani especially this:

When I see men being non chivalrous towards women, I go out of my way to make them pay for it. If we were on the theoretical sinking ship and I saw a man pushing women and children out of his way to save himself, he'd be dead meat. I'd chuck a harpoon at his head. If for nothing else, who would want to be the lone coward of a man on a lifeboat full of women and children?

Apparently unlike most of you I have been in situations like these on multiple occasions but maybe I've just had an exciting life and I grew up around people who are willing to and often sacrifice themselves for others but that is just me.

To you guys who are so worried about dying, death isn't that scary and you will die someday and sometimes losing your life is worth the sacrifice. If you die trying to save someone its just the price you pay. I could never disrespect someone who gives their life for someone else.

Really all you guys going on and on about self preservation are just a bunch of cowards.

[Assassin]

Apparently unlike most of you I have been in situations like these on multiple occasions but maybe I've just had an exciting life and I grew up around people who are willing to and often sacrifice themselves for others but that is just me.

To you guys who are so worried about dying, death isn't that scary and you will die someday and sometimes losing your life is worth the sacrifice. If you die trying to save someone its just the price you pay. I could never disrespect someone who gives their life for someone else.

Really all you guys going on and on about self preservation are just a bunch of cowards.

you've been in multiple life threatening situations like fires, sinking ships, bank robberies etc? care to give us some details?

And you hardly have the right to call anyone a coward for following the most basic of human instincts. If you really feel that wanting to save your life instead of sacrificing it for someone else is cowardly, feel free to fly to darfur or some other war torn country and gie your life for a family. I'll even pay for your ticket.

As for chivalry, even though its described as the being very 'knight like', the vast majority of medieval knights were fairly brutal and unchivalrous. They had power and status, and with no one to tell them otherwise, they could pretty much do anything they liked to anyone of a lower status.

[Abdula]

Yeah I have, actually I thought most people have been but I guess not. No I don't care to give any details. As for calling people cowards its well within my rights but I just felt like some of the comments were just cowardly.

rather than being irrational and throwing your life away for an ideal.

I said nothing of the sort.

[XanBcoo]

I said nothing of the sort.

I was getting that vibe. Unless you're at the point of knocking over women and children to get yourself to safety, I'm going defend self-preservation. There's nothing cowardly about it and it doesn't imply selfishness.

I can't swim. If the boat is sinking and nobody saves me because I'm a guy, I'd be pretty pissed and for good reason.

You can just hop in Animeniax's bathtub.

He can be the captain and you will be his first mate. I guess you can fashion some sort of flag out of the clothes of dead children or something. I really don't know how that fits in with the whole Chivalry thing.

[Board of Command]

I need to take one baby with me to plug up the bathtub drain with.

[Board of Command]

I can't swim. If the boat is sinking and nobody saves me because I'm a guy, I'd be pretty pissed and for good reason.

[Abdula]

Lol, that would be pretty funny.

You can just hop in Animeniax's bathtub.

He can be the captain and you will be his first mate. I guess you can fashion some sort of flag out of the clothes of dead children or something.

Wow just imagine that. I don't think the tub would be able to contain that much nerd.

[masamuneehs]

If it's a situation where you are trying to save as many people out of a group, you need to make the escape groups as likely to survive as possible.

if you make all the children get into the lifeboat, you really think they'll be able to guide it to shore? or use the flares/tools onboard? You send enough capable men first with the children to protect them.

You don't send all the doctors out on the first train, because do you think the scientists in escape train #2 can patch wounds up if they're hit by enemy fire? You distribute the doctors equally to each.

You don't send only women in an escape pod, because what if it's the only one to survive while the rest of humanity is wiped out?

If it's a situation where you're defending from an opposing threat:
Consolidate all those who can defend themselves to defeat the threat. In a cornered situation, this means getting the babies, invalids, and old geezers out of the way so they won't be distractions. You give no preference based on gender unless it is also a 'humanity wipeout' situation. Focus on defeating the threat.

It's all chaos anyway.
So look out for number one. then find number two, etc.