Well, If killing your best friend gives you mangekyu, maybe killing your (almost) entire clan gives you the power that Madara has.
Still no idea what Itachis plan/role in this is...
Well, If killing your best friend gives you mangekyu, maybe killing your (almost) entire clan gives you the power that Madara has.
Still no idea what Itachis plan/role in this is...
That would make sense....except that Madara would have to have been at least 200 years old at the time that he obtained immortality. So....it's unlikely.Originally Posted by Uberbaka
Even if Itachi wiped out the entire clan just to test Sasuke's "container," why should Madara have gone along with it? He must have some personal reason for destroying the clan that he originally founded.
And....MS causes blindness. Is it time to bring back the "MS: Multiple Sclerosis vs Mangekyou Sharingan?" debate from a few months ago?
I noticed something. If Sasuke knew that the sharingan's "true purpose" is to control the kyuubi, could that be the reason he was able to supress the kyuubi's chakra in Naruto when they meet at Orochimaru's lair.
Like Jiraiya said, someone must have summoned the kyuubi when it appeared at the village, and we can safely assume that that was Madara. My other thought is how vital was the kyuubi to the formation of the village, considering that both of the founders had some level of control over the kyuubi (like Naruto and Sasuke o_O).
The Uchiha clan's existence is the most pressing conflict to Madara's goal; which, apparently, is to make Konoha crumble.
With the Uchiha clan serving as Konoha's police squad, their inherit goal to protect Konoha conflicts with Madara's goal to see Konoha fall. The fact that they are Uchiha makes the issue personal and adds fuel to their fire to make sure Madara would not succeed. Also, it appears the biggest anti-Sharingan is another Sharingan so killing off the clan takes care of Madara's biggest threat.
The fact that the secrets of the Uchiha clan, namely the extent of the Sharingan's powers, were hidden goes to show that those Uchiha in the know did not want Mangekyou Sharingan to be attained by any more Uchiha; while of course Madara wants to exploit MS to its fullest. It's suggested that he pointed Itachi in the direction to attaining MS and he, even moreso, would like Sasuke to attain it as well. Madara probably would not have been able to do this if the Uchiha clan stayed in existence.
I personally believe that Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu is the max potential Itachi can tap out of MS. The nine-tails telling Sasuke that his chakra is more sinister than his own and that it reminds the nine-tails of Madara leads me to believe that only Sasuke (between him and Itachi) has the potential to use MS to control the nine-tails (as Madara did).
The whole history repeating itself is starting to get old...
[21:48] * DO furiously masturbates to #gotwoot
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Madara is just jealous he wasn't made Hokage thus resulting in him wanting to destroy Konoha.
I think that theory actually pans out well. I agree. Although I also think that the Uchiha's have also had an ulterior motive. Madara especially has something else going on which Kishi should let us know soon here.
What I want to know is, when and why the fight between the fist and the Madara happened. And why was it worth erecting giant statues on the outskirts of the village for?
side note:am I the only one who finds it odd and pathetic that Madara was defeated by the first. I mean he knew how to use his MS in ways no other Uchiha did. And the first only knew wood jutsus. I find it very very hard to believe that any could beat Madara let alone the first.
I seriously doubt the 1st only knew wood justus...they claim that he was the "one to bring calm to the ninja world", and wood jutsu is pretty powerful, and maybe you forget, but he can also somehow control Jinchuuriki (like Yamato). I'm not sure if he can also control the Bijuu, but it appears that way. More mystery abounds!
I'm really hoping Kishi will have Madara reflect back on his battle with the first. And it would be nice to know when the battle happened, like just after founding the village or years later.
About finding it odd and pathetic that Madara was defeated, we just don't know enough about the first really. The first obviously must have had something going for him. But if you do put a few things about the 2 together Madara does come out better so far. The first had a bit of control over the tailed beasts, Madara however made the Kyuubi into his pet (though Madara could have found that out later). Madara should know more jutsu's if he's put his sharingan to good use, though you still have to use them at the right time. Genjutsu should also be on Madara's side (sharingan again). That leaves taijutsu open atm, and then there's strategy still. There's still his mangekyou though, yet on this we don't know when he managed to achieve it.
I really can't remember where it was said that the first won, but here's my theory a bit more worked out. Maybe Madara considered the first to be his best friend but was broken when he wasn't made Hokage. Fight breaks loose years later over some trivial thing, Madara kills the first (gains Mangekyou) and makes it look like he was killed as well. Seeing this the village declared the first to have won. Still need to fit in the scroll about acheiving the mangekyou in somehow. Though he could have added that later in secret and Itachi somehow found it.
I know it's full of holes but to me it has a nice touch
Okay nice theory I doubt Madara would care about something like being hokage though his goals and motivations are much deeper than something like that.
Anyway nice chapter alot is explained here and this is exactly how I expected a battle between two Uchiha's to go, a pure mental battle using genjutsu. So Madaara was Itachi's mentor, teacher and accomplice that explains why and how Itachi killed the clan and why he was so strong and knew so much about the Uchiha. I really didn't think Itachi was strong enough to kill the entire clan by himself and Madara would explain why he was able to do it and how he knew how to attain MS.
I think more than likely Madara killed the first Hokage, what the villages know or believe and what was said before doesn't really matter, the higher ups are usually the only ones who really know anything anyway. Jiraiya hinted that he believed something like that had happened and Madara having MS suggests that he infact killed the first. Fact is he has MS which as far as we know is obtained by killing your best friend. Secondly he was Itachi's mentor and instructed him to kill his best friend so that he could gain MS and Itachi then told the same thing to Sasuke.
I really think Madara killed the First in that battle everything seems to suggests that, he does not only appear to be flat out stronger but he is supposedly indestructible and it was stated that the second became hokage after the first was killed so. That explains why Itachi suddenly changed after he joined the anbu, he must have encountered Madara sometime during that point. So Madara was still active in the village then in some capacity even if it was just watching.
So really a very nice chapter and although atleast one person felt underwhelmed I wasn't it was and still is a great fight and as I said its exactly how I thought a battle with two Sharingan users would be. In any case the plot thickens.
One thing that came to my mind while reading this that no one has mentioned is Kakashi. Not only does this make exactly how Kakashi acquired MS more interesting but the thing that everyone has missed here is that this could suggest that using MS Kakashi could control the Kyuubi.
Anyway awesome chapter and we apparently have yet another immortal on our hands.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Madara was the first sharingan user, right?
so : where did Uchiha clan came from?
Madara's offspring = women
women = trouble
trouble = Naruto's storyline
conclusion = Madara's dick was cut off by one of Konoha's chicks that was jealous about the other Madara lovers, that's why he wanted to take revenge on Konoha (Kyuubi) and became an easygoing Tobi after that = mental disorders caused by trauma.
so predictable...
Doesn't anybody think it is strange that whilst Madara, founder of the Uchiha clan and a founder of Konoha, is killed by the First yet the Uchiha clan still survives?
I think there is something like the Hyuuga clan family system running in the Uchiha also, except that with the Uchiha the difference between the two branches is political rather than a master to slave realtionship that exists in the Hyuuga. I think that when the First defeated Madara, one family of the Uchiha clan didn't support Madara and stood by as he was defeated. Either that, or the entire Uchiha family just stood by and watched him lose. I think that is probably what drove him to wipe out his entire clan, whilst keeping the best sons in the form of Itachi and Sasuke for himself.
I think it is pretty clear that it was Madara who summoned Kyuubi to attack Konoha as well. What is interesting though is that if this is the case, both Kyuubi and Madara were unable to defeat Yondaime. What I want to know is though what has Madara been doing all this time? Has he been regenerating? Is that why he wears a mask, because has not fully regenerated yet? Also, is the final secret of the Sharingan something that surpasses the Rinengan that Jiraiya didn't know about? Does Itachi know Madara = Tobi?
Yes, but you're thinking about it too much. The Uchiha clan descended from the Hyuuga clan. The Sharingan is a (stronger) variant of the Byakugan, as explained before the time jump. Indeed, this means that Madara was a Hyuuga before founding the Uchiha clan. Was he a Head family member or a Branch family member? If he was a head family member, we can assume that he continued the tradition, and that the survivors/slaves suppressed it after his death. If he was a Branch family member, things become unclear and possibly very exciting.
Probably. Itachi is his accomplice and student.... Does Itachi know Madara = Tobi?
I think its pretty safe to say that Itachi knows Tobi = Madara. He hinted that he knew this back when Akatsuki was first told that Sasuke was killed by Deidara and long before then when he killed the clan he told Sasuke a third member exists. So Madara being in involved with Pein who is the leader of Akatsuki and Tobi and Itachi both being in Akatsuki and Itachi referring to Madara as his mentor is no coincidence.
So I would say that they are well aware of each other. In fact they may all have planned this out together Pein, Konan, Zetsu, Itachi and Madara. Maybe Kakuzu as well since he was one of the original members who was very old and he did also claim that he had previously fought with the first hokage. See the connection there another old guy from the time of the founding of konoha who has some form of immortality who also fought the first. That just can't be coincidence.
They really are the brains of Akatsuki because if you think about it, Deidara and Hidan were new members and Oro, Kisame and Sasori were more or less dumb muscle because they really weren't involved in Akatsuki for any apparent reason other than for their own individual benefits. I mean excluding Oro, who joined only to get close to Itachi the other two were just dumb muscle really and are in Akatsuki simply because they are strong.
Taking the possible connection between Madara and Kakuzu and what the two posts above me said I won't be surprised if at the time at the battle at the valley of end it was and all out war between Madara and his followers and The First and his followers for control of the Kyuubi and the fate of the leaf village. It makes alot of sense and if the first was killed defending the village but his side eventually won it would explain not only why they erected the statues but why Madara would want to destroy the leaf village.
Plus I don't see a hokage becoming involved in any battle unless the outcome would directly affect the fate of the village and where the battle took place was very far away from the village itself which would make sense if they were indeed having a battle for the village. The hokage won't be all the way out there for any other reason but besides that Madara leading a rebel faction in a battle against the leaf makes sense and since he was one of the three founders of the village he would have a substantial following.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Wasn't that Orochimaru's motivation? It would be pretty lame if all of the villains in Naruto were just disgruntled middle-management angry over not getting that big promotion.
No. He was the first Mangekyou Sharingan user.Madara was the first sharingan user, right?
I don't recall it ever saying he founded the Uchiha clan, not in this chapter at least, he was just a founding father of Konoha.Doesn't anybody think it is strange that whilst Madara, founder of the Uchiha clan and a founder of Konoha, is killed by the First yet the Uchiha clan still survives?
Just to clear it up it was stated that Madara, The First and The second founded the village, though the First gets most of the credit and it was stated that Madara founded clan.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Do you remember which chapter it was stated in?
Chapter 370 pg 16
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Wow dumb.
Wow useless.
-Assassin
Edit: Sorry, it just doesn't deserve more than that. There's something wrong in just about every sentence.
Last edited by poopdeville; Mon, 01-21-2008 at 08:56 PM.
Thanks.Chapter 370 pg 16
I noticed something else while looking at that. In that chapter and this current one, both pictures of Madara have that dual sharingan thing behind him. Its difficult to tell if its in the background or perhaps strapped to his back.
I wonder if that has any significance to anything.
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