It is interesting how Madara could control Kyubi, and the 1st could tame Kyubi. I wonder if that played a role in the battle between the two.
It is interesting how Madara could control Kyubi, and the 1st could tame Kyubi. I wonder if that played a role in the battle between the two.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
Originally Posted by AssertnFailure
I can see it now, Madara calls on the Kyuubi and is all..."What now bitch?" And the first is all..."Oh no you didnt!?!' and then takes control of the kyuubi with his powers!
assertnfailure (7:40:03 PM): dude....your posts are a bunch of nonsense
Sasuke is going to help Naruto control the Kyuubi!! And then they will fight side by side again!
assertnfailure (7:40:03 PM): dude....your posts are a bunch of nonsense
Heres how i see it. The first and Madara had differing opinions and fought for whatever reason. Everyone seems to assume that Madara shoud've won since he has the MS, but we dont know anything about the batte, other then the location and the people involved.
Its far more likely that at the time Madara was a regular sharingan user, lost to the first, became a rogue and left the village, discovered the secrets of the sharingan/immortality, and set the kyuubi on konoha as revenge years later.
But that would have been over a hundred years later and that is a rather long time for someone to wait to get revenge and if he was a regular sharingan user and he lost to the first that doesn't explain how he got MS. Plus it was apparently well known by the higher ups that he had MS.
Maybe he pulled a Kakashi. Most people believe that the first defeated Madara in that battle and although the Uchiha seem invincible its more likely that that is what happened. A strong enough ninja who knows the Uchihas well enough should have been able to deal with them and even if Madara was stronger I suppose there were extenuating circumstances as there always are in Naruto.
My biggest qualm with The first defeating Madara is that as Itachi said he appears to be invincible but we have no idea when he acquired that ability. Anyway I guess we should get to see what happened in that battle soon and find out what the other secret of the Sharingan is.
Last edited by Abdula; Mon, 01-21-2008 at 11:48 AM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
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I think it'd be best to get an as accurate as possible timeline of the history of Konoha since it's founding. I'm having a hard time believing Konoha is anything older than 100 years old. Not in the in 150 yr range and certainly not in the 200 yr range.
Why not a hundred years really isn't that long a time, my grandfather will be a hundred in only two years. If you think about it Tsunade's grandfather was the first hokage and she is already in her mid 50's so the village could easily be over a hundred years old.
I would consider a generation to be about 25-50 years and if the first and the second were from the same generation then there is still the third's, the sannin's, the fourth's, the ninja's kakashi's age and up and finally Naruto's generation. At a minimum that is atleast 150 years.
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Yeah but i don't know many people who're about 20 and have grandparents even close to being 100 years old. The way I see it, Tsunade is in her fifties, so adding 35 years for a generation that's 85 years. The first probably didn't found the village before he was 20 so 35-20 is an extra 15 years which would make it 100 years old. So i'd say it's closer to being 100 then 150 years old.
Actually the first was Tsunade's grandfather so you would have to add 35 twice for two generations if that was your logic. Secondly you're assuming that the first founded the village when he was young which may or may not be true also you're assuming that Tsunade's parents had her when they were young which also may or may not be true.
Also I believe the first lived and was hokage for quite sometime before he died and the second took over, I remember seeing that in the databook I think but I can't remember exactly. Anyway after that there is still the third and the fourth and Kakashi and Naruto's generation so there is more than enough time.
So if you take 35yrs for a generation then 5 generations is 175 years so there is definitely more than enough time there. It was implied that Konoha is that old so I would just take it at face value because time is really something you can't calculate in Naruto and if you do you often find major inconsistencies.
Look at Oro and Itachi for example, they were supposed to have been in Akatsuki at the same time but Oro supposedly left the organization more than 10 years ago. Itachi is only supposed to be about 21 or 22 now and he killed the clan and left the village only a few years ago so time wise they couldn't have possibly been in Akatsuki at the same time but as we've seen it did happen.
So when it comes to time you should just take it at face value.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
I reckon if the "kill your friend" thing is true to get mangekyou, perhaps the first and Madara were best of friends. Just a thought. Still doesn't explain the relationship between Tobi and Madara looking the same. The only thing I can think of is that Tobi must be a fan boy of Madara and imitated him.
Um, Tobi is Madara. What are you talking about?
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
If madara is tobi, why did tobi join akatsuki recently and why does he sound like a kid. In another chapter page, we see Tobi again ordering everyone about. Surely a newbie shouldn't gain leadership that quick. I think there is 2 bodies that look the same.
Did you not read the last 20 chapters or so? It's been confirmed that Tobi is Madara.
Can someone tell me where it has been stated that MS makes your Sharingan MUCH better? (For instance, MS is like a 4th comma or whatever.)
As far as my knowledge goes, MS only gives you access to doujutsus and all that other neat stuff. I've never heard of MS acting like a 4th comma.
I must have missed where this was stated....
I don't think the Kyuubi wants revenge per say he doesn't seem the vengeful type. He would probably destroy the village just for the heck of it though. Itachi isn't interested in killing Sasuke atleast not at this point and I doubt more than a few minutes have passed.
Its never been stated that MS makes the sharingan better and I've never seen anyone post anything suggesting that and its tomoe.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Abdula i'm sure we can both agree Tsunade is still alive, so it really doesn't matter who's born after her but before her. And i did count 2 extra generations, 1 was her father obviously, making it 85 total then as i said, the first was atleast in his 20's when he founded the village, so instead of that making the village older, it makes it younger. So instead of adding another 35, 15 should be enough.
And another way of getting the rough age:
Appearantly the 3rd was 69 when he died, and when we see a young sarutobi standing with the 1st and 2nd those 2 don't look insanely old. Even if you say the 1st is 56 that makes a total time of 125 years, and that was when the first was born, not when the village was founded. That not even being close to your 175, i can imagine a lil bit of difference but 50 years + founding age is not a lil gap.
As I said before even if you know their ages there is no assurance that merely adding them up or performing some rough calculations would be correct. With the example of Itachi and Oro its rather obvious that the ages were an after thought and it really isn't that important to the story so it doesn't matter.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Itachi became a chuunin at a very young age, who says madara hasn't been controlling/put him in akatsuki since then?
Even if he was apart of Akatsuki since then he would have been ten and that would have been about eleven years ago. While that is a possibility I highly doubt he was in Akatsuki since then but even if he was that would mean that he defeated Oro when he was that young. Not only that but during the flashback Itachi appeared as he is now he didn't seem to be much younger, he most certainly wasn't ten.
I believe he knew or found out about Akatsuki after he joined the anbu and then following Madara's instructions, they killed the clan and he joined Akatsuki soon after. I have no idea how long Akatsuki has been around though but it would appear that they have existed for quite some time especially if Madara is the one behind them.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
We can put all of the rough estimations for the age of Konoha aside. You can do all the math you want, and it might not ever add up.
What we do know is that everyone says there's no way for Madara to still be alive, that he would be long dead, since he lived at the founding of Konoha. If Konoha were only about 100 years old or less, then it would be possible for Madara to still be alive. Konoha would have to be more around 150-200 years for people to react with such surprise to hear his name.
Plus, if you put it in terms of generations, you get the following:
First/Second/Madara
Third
Tsunade/Jiraiyaa/Orochimaru
Fourth
Kakashi/Obito/Whats her name
Naruto/Sasuke/Sakura
So that's six generations, with Naruto's generation nearing their 20's now.
The math doesn't necessarily add up, but if we assume Kishi was working under the terms of generations, then it is surprising to think that Madara could still be alive 6 generation later.
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