*sigh*, Yuki this is exactly why i hate elaborating and making long posts, in the end its just a huge waste of time.
*sigh*, Yuki this is exactly why i hate elaborating and making long posts, in the end its just a huge waste of time.
Hey I don't think its a waste of time. Even if I disagree with you I still enjoy reading your posts. Long posts where you clearly state your opinion result in great discussion and atleast then I know where you stand. Its way better that the one or two sentence meaningless posts we get from some people.
Post On.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
i wanna put my 2 cents into the last few post since i haven't posted since xmas.
(warning long post skip if ure not into readin alot lol)
The ages of kakashi becoming a jounin and itachi becoming a jounin shouldn't go into consideration when talking about skill nor the activation of sharingan between itachi/sasuke/obito. The main reason is all of these people were brought up in diffrent times. Kakashi was brought up in a time of war of course there ninja would have more experience in battle because they maybe have been forced into nijna fights instead of finding a pet for someone (IE:team 7's first few missions finding pets/cleaning garbage) I doubt the village took such jobs during war time.
If im not mistaken the viallge was in a peaceful time (none war) when itachi was around so he may have been a genius but maybe the village wasn't pushing it's ninjas as hard to move forward as chunin/jounin, if he killed the whole clan he would have to be powerful at a young age i doubt he just gained a huge ass power boost when he became 12 out of no where.. He still faced danger at an early age to gain the sharingan though so he was most likely in some high lvl missions at an early age. which comes to the sharigan being obtained and what ages has to do with it which is.....nothing. It is activated when a uchiha is in danger or pushed to the limit, look how obito and sasuke gained it they where both in mortal danger. Sasuke can't control when he would be placed in a real mission to even experience battle and gain the sharigan.
Ok with the strongest 5 ninjas in the village i would have to go with...
1.4th hokage: he created some of the strongest justsu's we have seen, he defeated the kyubbi in a sense, and as we saw in kakashi gaiden he was feared and could take out large groups of ninja easily by himself.
2. 1st hokage/madara: im placing them together because they were the founders of the village, both having very powerful bloodlines and madara had mangekyou. even with that the first beat him. but i keep them together cause madara is still alive some how.
3. 3rd hokage: yes he died without killing oro i understand that, but oro even said it if he was 10 years younger before that fight he would have won old age played a big part in that battle. He knew all jutsu in the viallage need i say more.
4. Itachi: He smacked around kakashi an oro i can't place either of them ahead of him and oro ranks up with the rest of the sanin so i can't put jiraya here either. yes i know he ran from jiraya but he was already weakened from using MS multiple times in a short period. Also he took out the whole uchiha clan and second person to activate MS ever.
5. oro/jiraya: im placing them together cause i believe they are both stronger then tsunade (all we've seen from her is strenth/healing capabilities) but we never seen them against each other at full stregth against each other to choose who is stronger. Both have many jutsu's, the both where under consideration to become hokage at one point.
Well thats my opinion we are all intitled to one, I can't place kakashi up here nor the 2nd hokage (we never really seen him in action nor recieved much info on him). Kakashi could not beat itachi, he stated himself during the chunin exam that he couldn't beat oro (not sure now but we will never find out sadly) and his stamina is horrible when using sharingan since it is not his own (reason why is stamina is low sharingan eats more of his chakra then an uchiha using sharingan).
Nice post. I agree with everything you said and although I do believe the fourth was the strongest I put him behind Madara and The First strictly because of the Kyuubi and since Madara is still alive its safe to assume that he has gotten stronger since then. I put Sarutobi behind Oro and the other because as Oro said he most definitely was much weaker because of his age but I have no idea exactly how the battle would have changed if he was younger.
At most what could have happened is that he would have had enough strength left to pull out all of Oro's soul which I don't think could have happened since that would've drastically changed the rest of the plot if Oro had died then. Honestly I just haven't seen enough of Sarutobi for me to rank him higher than I did.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Just a question. I can't remember but was Oro ever completely better after Sarutobi's technique?
[21:48] * DO furiously masturbates to #gotwoot
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I don't think so. I can't recall him ever performing hand seals again.
Yeah he was after switching to a new body and absorbing that person's soul he was completely healed. Oh and he did perform hand seals in his battle with 4 tailed Naruto when he summoned his shield.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Don't know if i agree with those rankings, but no use beating a dead horse. There is one thing I kind of do not get. They say the 3rd knew all the jutsu of the leaf, but at the same time, Kakashi (while the 3rd was still alive) was called the leaf's number one technician. Maybe that was just hyperbole to hype Kakashi up, but that doesn't really make much sense to me...oh well.
And something tells me that if the 3rd were younger, he wouldn't have had to resort to that soul stealing to beat Oro...he probably could have used some ridiculously monstrous jutsu or something; but he's dead now, so thats pure speculation (as are these rankings).
oh yea, it was said that the 3rd woulda mopped the floor with Oro if we wasnt so sentimental...
Last edited by rockmanj; Mon, 01-07-2008 at 07:55 PM.
Yup, that something was anime (3rd v Oro fight :P ) when 3rd had a flashback of Oro being catch redhanded while performing forbidden experiments with leaf citizens.Originally Posted by rockmanj
Even Oro stated that if Sarutobi was 10 years younger it wouldn't go the way it did...
That is the ridiculously monstrous jutsu. If he was younger and even if he did know all the jutsus in the village that one jutsu was by far the strongest. It was what the fourth used to seal the Kyuubi and the strongest jutsu in the village so there wouldn't have been a more powerful jutsu he could have used. Like I said I think the only thing that would have changed if the third was younger would be that they would have both died in that battle instead of just the third.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Shiki Fuuin is probably the most powerful sealing jutsu in the villiage, but who's to say Oro would have even had a chance to summon his zombies and create the need for a sealing jutsu if The Third had been younger. We'll never know if there was some technique he'd become rusty at that he might have used had he been younger to take Oro out before he managed to perform the summon (like a Genjutsu).
The stated reason the Third gave for using the Shiki Fuujin was that he couldn't destroy the zombies without dealing with the attached souls. Either Shiki Fuujin was the only way he knew to get rid of the souls, or it was just the most prudent way to do it given the situation but in either case his need to use stemmed directly from the casting of Edo Tensei, which might have been preventable by a younger Sarutobi.
My point exactly...couldn't have said it better myself.
Edo Tensei might have been preventable by a younger Sarutobi hah. It was already preventable he prevented Oro from bringing back the fourth easily enough and that was because he thought he would have been able to handle Oro and the other two hokages. He himself said that he stopped him from bringing back the fourth because he knew he wouldn't have been able to handle him.
So it had nothing to do with it not being preventable because it was. The problem was that he didn't realize just how strong Oro's jutsu was, he thought that simple techniques that would kill or destroy a normal human being would have been able to work on them, like using the explosive tags for example. He later realized that the only way to stop them was to effectively remove the souls from the bodies and then seal them so they couldn't reform. At that point there was nothing else he could do besides Shiki Fujin.
The point of that battle was that he had to fight his teachers so that wouldn't have changed and as I said even if he was younger the only way the outcome would have changed would be that they both would have died.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
He prolly did realize it, cause he was never in shock, he just said, "hmm so i cant deal with them like this". It never hurts to try, instead of damning your former teachers to eternal battle in the shinigami stomach.
Also he never said he couldn't handle the fourth, he said: "I absolutely have to stop the 3rd one." which is obvious cause 3 on 1 was already really hard for him, 4 on 1 wouldve been devastating.
The coffin should prolly be soulless anyway, since his soul is supposed to be sealed in the shinigami stomach.
I really don't have an answer as to why he was able to stop one out of three coffins, except to say that maybe he wasn't able to react quickly enough. That part kind of didnt make sense to me...but i could see if his reflexes weren't high enough to stop the other two. Oh yea...i just remembered that too... There shouldn't be anyway that Oro should be able to summon the 4th, since he was the one who created and used Shiki Fujin...weird.
Edo tensei was cast very fast by Oro and 3rd simply wasn't fast enough to prevent all of them.
The way I see it:
3rd sees Oro counting, One, two... 2 coffins appear, 3rd manages to stop the third one.
imho it was pretty fast for 3rd to be able to stop the 3rd coffin after 2 seconds of seeing an unknown jutsu and recognizing what it actually does...
It wasn't an unknown jutsu. The Third immediately recognized the jutsu as soon as Oro used it and he knew what was in the coffins before they even opened. So it wasn't an unknown jutsu, it was a forbidden jutsu but the third already knew about it which is why he was able to stop Oro from summoning the fourth. Hell he even knew a third coffin was coming before Oro began summoning it and the technique is obviously pretty old since the hokages themselves knew about it.
I still believe the reason he stopped the third coffin was because he knew that the fourth was in there not because of numbers. He knew we wouldn't be able to stop the fourth but he thought he would have been able to handle the first and the second.
Maybe the coffin that was supposed to contain the fourth would have opened the gateway to hell.
Last edited by Abdula; Wed, 01-09-2008 at 03:55 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
I can't go with u on this one, if he knew the technique he would have know from the begining that the only way to stop them was by taking there souls. The coffins weren't the 1st,2nd, and 4th hokages coffins either so he wouldn't know what he was summoning. the coffins held the 3 sound ninja's bodies for the summoning. remember when the hokages died u saw 2 of the sound ninja's bodies. If it was there coffins wouldn't it hold the remains of the 1st/2nd also? technically what we saw was the forms of the 1st and 2nd while it was really the bodies of those sound ninja.
Like I said he did know the technique while he may not of known all the specific details he did recognize the technique as did the first and second hokages. The fact that they knew the techniques suggests that its a very old technique and if it was then ofcourse the third knew about it because his knowledge is what he was known for.
IF he didn't know the technique already there is no way he would have been able to stop Oro from summoning the fourth if the technique was unfamiliar to him. The reason he won't have known how the destroy the first and the second would be because the technique is forbidden. Similar to when he used Shiki Fujin it was also a forbidden technique and he knew how to use it but he didn't actually know what would happen after he did it because he had never done it before. So I would say he knew Edo Tensei which is why he knew how to stop the coffin but he won't have known how to the destroy the people that were summoned because it was a forbidden technique that required sacrifices so he would never have used it.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
*cough*minato used shiki fujin*cough*
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