Naruto Shippuuden Episode 40-41

[Shinji Ikari]

In the end all you are giving are lame excuses for what the creator doesn't explain properly. Nothing conclusive. And there is always conclusiveness, because if there is not, then there is something missing, and that is what I'm getting at. Naruto the series never give anything conclusive in the abilities of a ninja or how strong people actually are (no matter what type of battle strategy they use or what kind of fighting style they have).

And the battles themselves are excessive, what is the point in having Gaara waste his chakra chasing Deidara in the air when he knows he won't be able to catch him unless something significant happens to Deidaras form of transportation. Basically, he needs to move slower for Gaara to hit.

And since Gaara is the target, all he needs to do in strategy is to concerve his energy and wait for an opening.

There are countless battles that would have gone nowhere if the one being targeted didn't make an obviously stupid move. Well, there is also the possibility of the creator actually thinking the battles through. The beginning of the series, with Haku and Zabuza shows much more tactics and smarts in battle than the fights later on in the series. Not to mention people making moves when they have to, and not in vain. Not that these fights are perfect.

Not to mention the whole Ninjas are to be concealed, Yet for some reason there are always one on one fights out in the open.

Oh oh, and the Rock Lee "all we have to do is become stronger than we were" which is physically impossible after being drained for who knows how long.

Don't try to protect obvious flaws in a series, it makes you look like a morron.

But to state one more obvious flaw, lets jump over to Kage bunshin no jutsu. It divides the users chakra equally through all the bunshins he creates (and of course equal to his own amount). It must cost nothing in chakra to actually do the jutsu, which is also very odd since all jutsus take chakra to create. But for the sake of argument. Naruto divides into 3 people, thus, his chakra is a third of what it first was, then suddenly he uses it again and this time he uses 4 clones, making his chakra 1/5 of that third that he had. No matter how huge his chakra is in normal state (which it isn't), he would be running so low on chakra he would soon be running out of breath. This is just following basic logics. And when he divides himself into 1000 or so many clones (judging from his fight with Gaara with the 2000 fists and whatnot). That would make him have 1/1000 of his original chakra.

Now I don't know if you play Final Fantasy 7, but having a gravity that works THAT well, anyone would die for. Meaning making that many clones is a suicide no matter how you look at it since there are only two outcomes in Naruto when it comes to kage bunshin no jutsu.

1. Either he kicks the persons lilly ass totally without even losing a bunshin or
2. All of his bunshins are "poofed" to smitherines.

And for the sake of argument, let us demonstrate this in mathematics. 100 000 in chakra (HP if you want). Divide this in 1000 and you get 100. Meaning that after he loses his clones, he is a finger-flick from being dead in RPG-terms. And that is not taking into the account that it actually takes chakra to make a kage bunshin, or at least it takes for each time you decide to make one or more (every time you use the hand seal to make). And since we both know that it takes a high level ninja to be able to perform, we should be able to assume that it would take at least some level of chakra more than the amount for say... bunshin no jutsu or henge. So to be nice, say that it only takes 100 to make kage bunshin no jutsu no matter what the amount is. then we have 100 000 - 100 which is 99 900. that divided with 1000 is 99.9.

Do I have to keep going? Okey, I actually like making you look like a fool.

In Claymore they talk a lot about useless motion, but those awesomely wicked chicks haven't seen anyone in Naruto move.

You can't disagree with basic logics that this anime isn't very well thought through when it comes to battle (other than making it feel great and look awesome). If you do I sense a black bird will soon fly past you screaming "ahou, ahou, ahou desu ka".

[Abdula]

Wow talk about a waste of a post. No one ever said there weren't flaws or plot holes in Naruto and no one was making excuses for Kishi certainly not me. If anything I would be the one complaining about them more than anyone else but that is not the point. The point was that I was merely saying that there are no "power levels" in Naruto and I made a point to do it in a nice way too but that was all for naught as you clearly aren't interested in that.

I don't know why you chose to call me a moron and a fool but I'll let you get away with it since I'm in a rare good mood. As for your point about Gaara he nor anyone else in the village knew at that point knew that Deidara was after him. He merely thought that someone was attacking the village and he attempted to protect it as is his obligation.

I also don't know why you talk about the sand since Gaara had an obvious advantage in that battle and not only was he able to catch and severely injure Deidara but if not for him having to save the village he would have won that battle since Deidara couldn't use any attacks strong enough to kill Gaara and was also out of clay. I also don't know why you brought up the inconsistencies about Naruto's shadow clones since that has already been discussed many times in many different threads.

I really don't know why you seem so proud that you manage to put a Final Fantasy reference in your post which was a meaningless post that was completely unrelated to what I was telling you about which was about power levels but whatever. I also don't know why you think Naruto isn't thought out because its is one of the most well researched and thought out shows I've ever seen. The battles thus far have been great but nothing is perfect.

In any case I think you should consider yourself lucky that I'll let you get away with this one.

Do I have to keep going? Okey, I actually like making you look like a fool.

I don't know why you would feel so good about yourself because you tried to make someone look like a fool on an internet forum especially considering that you failed at that and they were only trying to educate you about something but if that is what it takes to get you through your life and make you feel some sense of accomplishment when you go to bed at nights then by all means go right ahead.

[Shinji Ikari]

Hahaha, How mature of you. Power levels are just another word of saying, handling battles. Because that is what it's all about. And I dragged out flaws in the battles because they show distinct flaws in how people of certain levels should act (not because of their title) but depending on their flaws and their strong parts.

The Gaara VS Deidara battle is a perfect example of that. And only a fool would not realize the target was Gaara. There are several reasons for that as well, but I won't ramble about that. Anyways, Gaaras tactics were more than ecessive, they were futile and stupid.

And I have no reason to be nice to you since you weren't especially nice to me, not that you acted up or anything, but hey, that's how I roll. But if you were in a foul mood, what would you do? Slap me on the wrist? Please, It's not like you can do anything. Besides to talk me down, which I already know is impossible, you can't amount to that level. Or are you a mod who could throw me out? That would be abuse of power, which I know is very much used here, but please, for this amount, it would be a bit too harsh.

Wow, you must be super at analysing texts, finding out things about me that even I don't know, me being proud of using FF and all. Man you are good. Maybe not. See what I did there? That's called sarcasm.

And no, the Kage Bunshin no Jutsu example is far from unrelated to power levels. There aren't any clear power levels as in Bleach, I'll grant you that (well almost). But everything in battle is measured in power, no matter what kind of power it might be. ANBU for example take on missions on their own and in teams, but say that they act alone for the sake of argument. They are expected to complete their missions no matter what kind of mission it is or turns out to be. Which means they have to be versatile. And that is what shows true strength. An ANBU can't just decide to not do something because he doesn't feel like it. For example, as you say, different styles of fighting are good and bad depending on the situation, but for Rock Lee who only knows Taijutsu, he has to compensate his lack of other skills by becoming strong enough to tackle other things with his speed. And what's important here is the compensation part. If you lack one thing you have to make up for it somewhere, being able to do that is what decides level of strength.

I mean, there is a reason why there is Genin, Chuunin, Jounin, ANBU and Hokage. They are extremely loose, but depending on title, you can only do a certain level of missions. Because the general strength has gone past a certain level.

And be that as it may, that there aren't any "power levels". The strengths and flaws in shinobis in Naruto aren't really adding up when you measure it. It all comes down to fluke, but if every battle was rolling a dice, that would make this series stupid, so that isn't what the writer is thinking.

Oh, and why wouldn't I want to diss you? Or anyone else for that matter, if I have to say something on the Internet, why not make it colorful so that people react very strongly against or very strongly in agreement. I'm not counting people like me who just doesn't care.

[Yukimura]

Lol Abdula you call his post a waste then spend 4 paragraphs talking about what you don't know about Shinji. How does that add to the discussion at all?

Anyway, the topic of discussion at the moment is the plot holes and lack of a clear power structure in Naruto so i'll try to stick to that instead of joining the flame battle.

I think having each fight depend strongly on the participants involved and their individual qualities is ultimately a good thing. It enables both broken uber-characters to dominate universally (like Itachi) yet still be vulnerable and at the same time it allows supposedly worthless losers to pull off upsets (Shikamaru). The system is of course confusing, since you can basically never predict the outcome of a fight unless there's plot armor involved, but I think that makes it much more exciting since you never know when something like Neji vs Kidoumaru will pop up.

[Abdula]

What Gaara didn't wasn't any more futile and or stupid that what the third did in his battle with Oro or Naruto chasing Gaara's dead body or any of the other battles we have seen. Again about the shadow clones you have yet to say anything that hasn't already been discussed. In the end its just an anime. Its amazing that you have been on the forums this long yet you still can't make a clear point in your posts.

@ Yuki <3. You should know me well enough by now besides someone had to do it. Yes it does make it more exciting because you really can't tell who will win any particular battle and it reduces the need for blatant plot devices.

I have no reason to be nice to you since you weren't especially nice to me, not that you acted up or anything, but hey, that's how I roll. But if you were in a foul mood, what would you do? Slap me on the wrist? Please, It's not like you can do anything. Besides to talk me down, which I already know is impossible, you can't amount to that level. Or are you a mod who could throw me out? That would be abuse of power, which I know is very much used here, but please, for this amount, it would be a bit too harsh.

Wow, you must be super at analysing texts, finding out things about me that even I don't know, me being proud of using FF and all. Man you are good. Maybe not. See what I did there? That's called sarcasm.

These two paragraphs say alot about you. You act like an idiot simply because you think there is no consequence to your actions. As for me being able to talk you down I'm certainly very capable of that and whether there are consequences or not you shouldn't be a jerk but that is your choice. You even drag the mods into his and say they abuse their power.

In any case you shouldn't be an idiot and blatantly flaunt your arrogance, ignorance and immaturity. Honestly you sound like a spoilt child. Anyway you shouldn't act that way simply because if it were in person some one like me has broken arms for less and I have no idea what allows you to think that because this is an internet forum you are "safe."

In anycase you've shown your true colors and since you have no interests in discussing anything and it doesn't seem like discussing anything with you would benefit me in anyway I really don't have anything to say to you other than try and make better posts.

Oh, and why wouldn't I want to diss you? Or anyone else for that matter, if I have to say something on the Internet, why not make it colorful so that people react very strongly against or very strongly in agreement.

Please if that is the reasoning behind your posts then spare us okay.

[Yukimura]

God, can you please just stop all this mini-flaming. Abdula since you seem to have assumed the role of judge to Shinji you are just making yourself look worse by continuing to make passive-aggressive attacks against him. If he doesn't care how his actions are perceived that's his business, why can't you just let it go? Talking trash is never going to make a person change, but it can certainly move them to start flaming back in response, which we don't need.

You are currently coming off as a sanctimonious tight-ass as well as a flame-escalator. I know you don't care much for your image, however you're not making it any better by trying to be Shinji's dad, let it go or take it to the flame pit so we can get on with our Naruto please.

EDIT: @Abdula, even if 'someone had to do it' that is the moderators job nobody likes the volunteer politeness police.

[Abdula]

Granted it may appear that way but that is not my intention I just find that his reaction to my initial post was completely unwarranted. I also don't consider myself nor do I care to be the better person. Anyway since the "Great Yukimura" says so then this is done although I really didn't intend it to become anything.

Speaking of the topic do you know when the next episode airs?
Never mind.

[DarthEnderX]

There not being power structures in Naruto...well, that's life. You can never be certain that someone will win over someone else.

I mean, you could go by rank, but that's hardly foolproof. I mean, Naruto is still a Gennin and he's could probably beat alot of Jounin. It's just not reliable. Because there's alot of reasons why someone might not be the rank they should be.

It's like's been said. There's a kind of "rock paper scissors" thing in the show too, where maybe someone can easily defeat taijutsu, but is terrible at beating genjutsu. That person could get beat by a seemingly weaker genjutsu user while defeating a much stronger taijutsu user. It's all about what techniques they have.

[Uberbaka]

I always think it's funny people base these non existing "power levels" on what people have -said- even in post timeskip and other times.. Yeah, because nobody ever trains to specifically beat someone, gets stronger, adapts, or even just plain lies or are wrong?

They're ninjas, they're devious.

[KrayZ33]

Jiraya would slay Kisame and Itachi (itachi said so)
Orochimaru would be killed like a baby in the water by Itachi (Orochi said so)
And Naruto almost killed Jiraya with 4 tails (He barely escaped with his life riding the big wave obviously).

rock, scissor, paper

the best ninja @ nin-jutsu or taijutsu can still loose to a ninja who is good in genjutsu

remember tayuya? she lost to temari because she was her "natural" enemy... her jutsus were simply the perfect counter...

[Shinji Ikari]

The next episode is aired 10th of januari abdula.

If Abdula is my father, is yuki my mother? (That was a joke guys) :P

And as you say abdula, there are a lot of useless movements and actions taken in the battles, but the ones you mention are bad examples. Deidara escaped in an attempt to lose Kakashii, and to get some distance between Naruto and the rest of the teams, which is actually a good strategical move since Naruto will act accordingly. In the anime that traveled time seems a lot longer since some of it is probably filler.

I dislike the rock, scissor, paper system just because powers aren't really scrutinized, it leaves a gap... I'll leave it at that.

Anyways, sorry for acting up. If you had your good day, I had my bad day. I had just finished my Naruto marathon watching every Naruto non-filler episode from the beginning of the series to episode 40-41 (and I stopped watching at the end of the Gaara arc so I could see 8 episodes in a batch to finalize this marathon) in 3.5 days.

[Janusz]

It's like's been said. There's a kind of "rock paper scissors" thing in the show too, where maybe someone can easily defeat taijutsu, but is terrible at beating genjutsu. That person could get beat by a seemingly weaker genjutsu user while defeating a much stronger taijutsu user. It's all about what techniques they have.

Well, they had the rock-paper-scissors thingy in DBZ as well...

Stop being a complete idiot or you'll be gone from here.

-The Mod

[Abdula]

Please don't talk about DBZ and they didn't have a rock paper system what they had was SS and Spirit Bomb own all.

[SilentSnake]

I'm just hoping they will actually use next ep to make something nice instead of just another teaser.

about paper-rock-scissorc = It's all up to Kishi anyway, we all know there are situations when we think "why didn't he/they just use this to counter...".

Removed the flamming

Wow, how rude and pointless. I could flame you but I have manners and I presume Shinji will stand up for himself.

[Shinji Ikari]

No, actually I felt that there was no real point in defending myself from such a post. But oh well. A maraton is a maraton after all, it's supposed to be crazy. And I do have a lot of time because I'm at uni and my classes start the 20th. Why study when there is no need to, and what else is there? hanging out with people doing nothing? Reading a book, doing sports? What is this life you are talking about.

there is a swedish saying (not too commonly known in sweden either since it's more or less a joke) before 50 there is only 1 thing in life, X, but when you turn 50 you realize there are two things, there is also food.

Now I'm not saying that my life-style is optimal in any way, but if you think that your way of life is a better way than mine, then you are the fool, 'cause there is only one way there would be better or worse ways of life, and that would be if there was a meaning to living.

During these 3.5 days I hade non-stop fun.

[Deansdale]

Speaking about flaws, I got a bit nervous when Sakura was hit by the flying Kabuto.
Tsunade taught Sakura that the most important skill for a medical ninja is to dodge, for Christ's sake... She must be a freaking genius in avoiding attacks, and then she is knocked out cold by the first sign of combat activity, which was not even aimed at her!

[BioAlien]

Speaking about flaws, I got a bit nervous when Sakura was hit by the flying Kabuto.
Tsunade taught Sakura that the most important skill for a medical ninja is to dodge, for Christ's sake... She must be a freaking genius in avoiding attacks, and then she is knocked out cold by the first sign of combat activity, which was not even aimed at her!

i believe she was simply caught off-guard.

[Abdula]

I believe she is simply an idiot. She may have improved medical skills but she is still just Sakura.