Well, lets not forget that Sasori's inside puppet is even stronger than his outside puppet, so its not like Kabuto's attack would have finished him off right away.
I still don't think he would have been able to beat them both though.
Well, lets not forget that Sasori's inside puppet is even stronger than his outside puppet, so its not like Kabuto's attack would have finished him off right away.
I still don't think he would have been able to beat them both though.
I don't think Kabuto could have done anything about the poison. He hasn't seen him for five years, so he'd be completely unaware of Sasori's new poisons. Also, it destroys heart muscles, and you're pretty much paralyzed/passed out when it hits, so if Oro gets hit, me might be able to save him or something. Still, I don't think it will be too one sided. Sasori's got the tough job though. Don't forget, Chiyo was a puppet master who taught Sasori. I'd say Oro and Kabuto wouldn't have it any easier.
Nobody ever mentions Kabuto as being one of the great medical ninjas around. Honestly, we don't really know how good he is. He could regenerate the damage caused by a rasengan to a degree quite fast but that's pretty much everything we have seen. He couldn't do anything about Oro's rotting hands, he couldn't do anything to Kimimaro. So, I wouldn't count on his ability to counter Sasori's super poison with no preparations well beforehand.
Yup, i agree, unlike sakura, Kabuto would have had no previous exposure to the poison or any time to concoct an antidote, at least, its impossible considering he'd have to foresee what the poison might be and bring the necessary ingredients to mix ON the battlefield.
Also, Sasori may give the two more trouble than some might give him credit for. Although kabuto is a medical nin, his techniques would be useless against sasori's wooden body (i'm assuming he hasn't seen sasori's true form, and won't pick up on the weak spot immediately.) Plus, Sasori's got his iron sand attack by the 3rd kazekage.
Anybody else think we may see a medical ninja fight between Sakura and Kabuto?
I don't know what you guys are talking about Kabuto is supposed to be one of the best medical ninjas around. Tsunade said he was better that she was when she was in her prime and that is why Orochimaru had him unless you choose to ignore that. No one could help Orochimaru I doubt Tsunade could, I mean Sarutobi sealed part of his soul so I don't see how any medical jutsu could repair that. Their logic was simply if it could be done Tsunade would know how to do it because she has the most knowledge and experience in the area of medical jutsu.
Secondly no one could help Kimimaro because no one knew about his family history. No one knew the secrets of his kekkei genkai and how their bodies worked. They couldn't save him simply because there was no information on his clan because they had all died not because of any lack of skill on Kabuto's part. Even Tsunade said that she wouldn't have been able to save Choji if it wasn't for the extensive research that Shikamaru's clan had done on Choji's clan which provided her with enough information to save him. Sasori's poison obviously was no big deal. Sakura had what a few years of medical training and she was instantly able to recognize the ingredients in Sasori's poison and be able to neutralize them and you are trying to tell me that Kabuto who was adopted and trained by the chief medical officer of Konoha's medical squad and has been Orochimaru's personal medical ninja for who knows how many years wouldn't have been able to neutralize Sasori's poison.
Sasori isn't even a medical ninja and Sakura was able to neutralize his poison after 2.5 years of training and you're saying that Kabuto, who has been a medical ninja all his life, whose skill and talent Kakashi, Jiraiya and Orochimaru all praise and whose medical skill Tsunade herself admits is better that hers, won't be able to deal with a simple poison that someone like Sakura who was completely useless before her two years of training was able to neutralize. Come on you gotta do better than that. I can’t believe you guys would even insinuate that Sakura is better than Kabuto and having come into contact with the poison before doesn’t mean anything because Sakura had never seen it before either yet she still managed to save Kankuro and make additional antidotes.
We don't even have any evidence to suggest that poison would work on someone like Kabuto or something like Orochimaru so even if Sasori was going to fight them he certainly won't have been relying on his poison to work. If his poison does destroy your muscles then Kabuto and Oro shouldn’t have any trouble since they both have regeneration abilities. His iron sand wasn't much of weapon if you think about it Chiyo was able to protect herself and still be able to control Sakura and I'm sure Kabuto and Oro would have been able to avoid such attacks.
The big thing here that you are forgetting is that unlike Sakura, Kabuto is a much more skilled medical ninja and he has a lot of battle experience which is what Sakura lacks so I think he would have instantly recognized the plug in Sasoris chest. How would you not recognize that a puppet body had a big plug of flesh in its chest especially if you're a medical ninja.
The other big thing here is that Orochimaru knows Sasori's secrets because from what Sasori said the only other time he had used his true body was when he joined Akatsuki. Since Oro was his partner and a former member of Akatsuki, who acknowledges that he has seen Sasori's real body, its safe to assume that Oro was there when Sasori had his "initiation."
I think you guys are forgetting that this is Orochimaru here one of, if not, the best of the Sannin. Who unlike his counterparts has not aged and has only become stronger over time and has acquired countless techniques and what the hell would be the point of being immortal if poison would work on you. Anyway I'm wasting my time here, I'm sure we'll see what Orochimaru has to offer sooner or later.
@DB_hunter: No we won't see a fight between Sakura and Kabuto because if you remember Tsunade's words medical ninjas are not supposed to engage an enemy, their purpose is to avoid combat and heal/rescue their comrades if they get injured. Yamato said that he put Sakura on the same team as him because their priority is protecting her because she is their only medical ninja. So we won't or atleast we shouldn't see her fighting.
-Response to below post. I trust that you hadn't read my post at the time of posting but Kabuto's intention when fighting Tsunade was to disable her not to kill her because they intented to at least force her to try and heal Oro. From what we've seen so far Kabuto is able externally attack an oppenent as we saw him do to Yamato. The difference there was his intention he himself said that it would've been easier to just kill Tsunade rather than trying to disable and capture her.
Why the hell would you think that Sasori would be able to defeat Oro. Puppeteers are not strong ninjas. In fact in my opinion they are the weakest "type" of ninjas we have seen thus far even someone like Sakura who had little previous battle experience was able to deal with Sasori's attacks with Chiyo assisting her in dodgin. Orochimaru certainly won't need any assistance dodging Sasoris attacks and there is no reason to belief that Sasoris attacks would have been able to defeat Oro. We,ve seen all Sasori has to offer and puppeteers rely on trickery to win battle. You know what instead of explaining anything I'll just say this. Sannin+Immortality=Orochimaru we've seen from his previous appearances that physical attacks like swords, punches etc don't work on him and there is no reason to believe the poison would work on something like him. I don't know why after seen how pathetic Sasori looked against Chiyo and Sakura that you would think Orochimaru would lose to a puppeteer especially one who techniques he already knows.
Orochimaru didn't even fight Sarutobi, much less "Used everything he had" he wanted Sarutobi to fight the other Hokages, Oro was a spectator. Sasori defeating the third doesn't mean anything he most likely used poison because the third's technique is far superior to Sasori's which is why he wanted it in the first place. Being able to defeat someone doesn't mean that you would be able to defeat someone else in the Narutoverse, its not Bleach or DBZ.
Last edited by Abdula; Tue, 12-18-2007 at 03:52 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
if you remember the fight vs kabuto and naruto/tsunade you'll see that he uses attacks which do hurt inner organs or muscles
what effect would that have on sasori?
it would be a 1on1 between Sasori and Oro and i really doubt Oro could beat Sasori.
and btw sasori DID kill the third kazegage(the strongest in naruto history)... oro killed the Hokage but he was
1. old
2. one of the weaker hokages
and oro had really problems killing that old man.. even though he used everything he had.
and i m not even sure that sasori has been deafeated... i like to believe what the elder woman said when sasori died.
Last edited by KrayZ33; Tue, 12-18-2007 at 03:28 PM.
What a massive post full of nothing.
Why in the world would Kabuto be able to cure Sasori's poison on the battlefield? The cure was a rare herb, think he just brought some of that specific plant for fun? And remember this is a new poison so Oro and Kabuto would not have seen it. One hit on each and Sasori wins. It isn't like Kanakaru, no one is going to go save Oro and Kabuto, bring them home, and cure them.
Plus Oro's immortality jutsu is a body transfer, it doesn't make him invincible, that's stupid to even think.
The poison is not a one hit kill, it takes three days to kill. I know they need a herb to cure it but it is poison I'll accept that it is a very dangerous weapon against a normal opponent but being that Oro and Kabuto aren't normal opponents by any means and that they have regenerative abilities its hard to believe that poison would be the end of them.
His poison isn't by any means "new" Chiyo did not know about it because she hadn't seen him in over twenty years but Oro knows all about him because he was his partner in Akatsuki and anyone who has seen Sasori fight in the past no matter what form he was in has undoubtedly encountered his poison. I'm sure Orochimaru and Kabuto know all about Sasori's poison because all his weapons and all his forms use the same poison.
There is no way Orochimaru would plan an ambush if he wasn't aware of his opponents skills and abilities and Sasori having been his partner for years I'm sure he would be able to defeat him. We saw how easy it was to defeat Sasori once you know his weak spot and Oro knowing it gives him an enormous if not unsurmountable advantage. We saw how Sakura an inexperienced ninja and Chiyo a decrepit old woman who was far past her prime was able to defeat him. Then Oro and kabuto together would undoubtly be able to defeat him, he is a Sannin. No one can tell me that Chiyo and Sakura or by any means in the same league as Oro and Kabuto.
The reason they won was because Chiyo was a very experienced ninja who had extensive knowledge of Sasori which was negated by the new techniques he had learned when he joined Akatsuki. Oro is as experienced as she was and being that he was Sasori's partner and had already seen his new techniques would give him a far better chance against Sasori than Chiyo had. Kabuto is a far more competent and experienced ninja than Sakura is so he two would stand a far better chance against Sasori. So if Chiyo and Sakura did it, Oro and Kabuto would have no trouble doing it.
Yes his jutsu is a body transfer jutsu but as I'm sure you seen, his host bodies aren't by any means normal bodies. Take his fight with Tsunade for example she hit him with multiple blows that would undoubtedly kill any other opponent.
Last edited by Abdula; Tue, 12-18-2007 at 07:01 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Regeneration has little to do with countering the kind of poison Sasori likely used. Regeneration just makes the body replace lost tissue. Poisons either affect the tissue locally (like damaged mucle or whatever part was struck) or flow through your vascular system affecting some specific target, hampering the normal functions of the body. The first case you could in theory regenerate but I don't think Sasori's poison was of that sort.
And you are only looking at one side of the coin, anyway. Sasori is, or was, quite a villain himself. I don't think he would have come unprepared. Even if he assumed Kabuto would still be loyal, in general you could say he wouldn't have probably gained a position in Akatsuki by being a fool who can't see other possibilities and be ready for any surprises. So, just in case, if he had thought Oro would have known all about his poison, he would have switched to another one for the duration of this meeting.
Fantastic ep. just had some chef boyardee and almost crapped tomato sauce when oros face appeared in the trees (it was this point i finally assumed kabuto was a double).
On the Sasori (and maybe sakura) vs Oro and Kabuto fight. I think it would ultimately come down to sasori vs oro. Even though he was in disguise yamato didn't seem as paranoid as sasori would have been. Also if you remember back to sakura and chiyo vs sasori, sasori wielded his tail with godly speed, and honestly would have blocked kabutos half-ass melee attacks with ease. As far as medical goes Kabuto >>>> Sakura, but if they are hit (hitting oro would be unlikely) by the poison its like what Jessper said, no ones bringing them home after their paralyzed, even if kabuto can cure it easily he can't do it with his brain shutting down. In the end its Oro kills sasori who at some point has killed or wounded Kabuto.
BTW anyone who can't immediately recognize sasoris weak point in his final form is almost as dumb as Lee and his "FIGHT HARDER" strategy.
Yay, another long post full of speculation masquarading as facts. I do love reading these (seriously). Anyway, as speculative as Adbula's post is, a lot of it makes sense. Kabuto bringing along some form of antidote(s) while on a mission to kill a known poison user seems pretty likely, considering he's not an idiot. There's no way to know for sure, but assuming he and Oro were prepared to kill Sasori the question really boils down to, would Sasori's poison be too fast acting Kabuto to counteract on the fly in the heat of battle, it would be illogical to assume he didn't bring some form of anti-poison equipment along. (Also if you remember Chiyo took the poison and was able to function far longer than Kankuro, medical training perhaps..who knows?)
Random correction: Tsunade said Kabuto was more skilled than she was when she was the same age as him (Kabuto was 20 at the time and Tsunade was 51). It's never explicitly stated whether she learned anything new after turning 20 or not, but I would think it likely she picked up a thing or two in that time.
As to saying Sasori's attacks are 'easy' to dodge it's somewhat unfair to base that conclusion off of the ability of the woman who trained him to predict and react to his attacks. Based on his loner attitude it's likely that the only people who have seen him do anything are Chiyo, Oro, Diedara and all the people he's killed. Of the three, Chiyo would probably understand the underlying patterns of his fighting style the best since she was the one who taught him the basics of puppet fighting. While he obviously improved a lot while away from her I doubt anyone would have a smaller handicap against him. Oro is Oro so I put him into the omnipotent category, I doubt he'd have trouble dodging anything and even if hit and poisoned he would be fine due to plot armor. Kabuto on the other hand, is not a fighting specialist and not nearly as important as Oro in terms of plot armor. He shouldn't be able to do as well dodging against Sasori as a Chiyo guided Sakura did but it's not a stretch that he'd have cooked up some crazy super-antidote concoction before the fight.
In conclusion in a fight between Sasori and Oro. I say Sasori loses due to the plot armor (AKA sheer badassness) of Oro, plus Kabuto having already prepared every known antidote ever and brought it with him to the fight just in case. The bringing all the antidotes thing is a stretch, but Kabuto is Oro's henchmen, while Sasori is just a mid boss, mid-bosses don't kill party members, even evil party members.
When did they ever say the 3rd was one of the weakest everlol? they called him one of the strongest ever what held him back was age really. Even Oro said if it was 10years earlier or so the 3rd would have defeated him. They have stated before that the third was one of the strongest because of his vast knowledge of jutsu's hence the nickname the professor.Originally Posted by KrayZ33
Just because sasori beat the kazekaga doesn't mean he did it in a huge fight like oro/3rd battle. If anything he could have tricked the kazekaga or catch him off guard because he probably wouldn't have expected sasori to attack him in some way. if im not mistaken they never stated wether the kazekaga dissapeared before or after sasori left the village, so the kazekaga could have been killed by him while sasori was still apart of the village.
The circumstances of how exactly Sasori supposedly defeated the Third are completely unknown. I think Kishi just threw that one in for no reason other than to draw the obvious comparison between Sasori and Orochimaru. Honestly I can't think of how Sasori would have been able to beat the third without some form of trickery or assistance. He could have poisoned him and some people he had in one of his jutsu could've defeat him.
The third must have had some great skill because not only was he the Kazekage but he was supposedly the strongest, note this is a comparison between him and Sarutobi, but the reason I think he would have been able to defeat Sasori is because of his jutsu. The kage must ofcourse have some extensive knowledge of jutsu and I don't know what other jutsu he knew but his iron sand should have been able to defeat Sasori. Its his own orginal technique so I would imagine that he would have been able to utilize it far better than Sasori was able to and I don't know how Sasori would have been able to deal with such a technique.
The Iron should have easily been able to destroy his puppets or at least he would have been able to disable the puppets with it like Sasori did. I think the third would have known a lot about Sasori because he would have been one of their strongest and most reliable ninjas at the time so you would think that he would know to keep Sasori at a distance during a battle because he should have the advantage in a long range battle or in any battle period. That all leads me to believe that the Third was either completely unsuspecting of Sasori and was attacked completely by surprise or Sasori planned attacking him well in advance which I'm inclined to believe due to his personality and he and a few of his subordiantes poisoned and attacked the third.
@fifafreak18: Your first sentence gave an absolutely disgusting visual.
@ Yukimura if you actually do like reading them then I'll keep them coming honestly I was getting tired of them but whatever. I don't know why you always insist on mentioning that I'm speculating because we all are and that is a fact. About your correction, I know that Tsunade was referring to Kabuto being better than she was when she was at that age but hers word were that Kabuto was better than she was when she was in her prime.
From that statement it safe to assume that her prime= her peak and although she undoubtedly has picked up a lot of new jutsu and experience since then the argument could be made that strictly from a medical skill point of view Kabuto could be better than she is. She has said that he is better than she was during her prime, she has also admited during the Sannin fight that she was much better back then than she is now.
Now I'm not saying that Kabuto would be able to defeat her, because she has way more knowledge and experence than he does, but strictly from a medical point of view I think Kabuto may be better than Tsunade currently is.
Combine that with his fighting ability and skill as a ninja being constantly compared to Kakashi, his analytical ability and the other skills he has shown thus far like his regeneration and I think Kabuto has the potential to become a major villain in the future. That is ofcourse if he decides to step out from Orochimaru's shadow and attempt to improve himself.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Kabuto was able to do zilch about Oro's rotting hands. That's why they sought out the legendary medical ninja that was Tsunade. I think that more or less reveals both Kabuto himself and Oro thought Tsunade is superior.
Honestly, I'm seriously beginning to doubt Kakashi's fighting prowess. He didn't even get wounded while fighting Deidara (who lost both arms and still was able to fight a couple of jonin and chunin succesfully), but still he was sentenced to spend a week in a hospital. That kind of man is a bit too far from being really powerful. It indicates if he actually gets a real scratch in a fight, he'll be finished right away. So, saying Kabuto is as good as Kakashi still keeps him a great distance below Oro or Akatsuki.Combine that with his fighting ability and skill as a ninja being constantly compared to Kakashi, his analytical ability and the other skills he has shown thus far like his regeneration and I think Kabuto has the potential to become a major villain in the future. That is ofcourse if he decides to step out from Orochimaru's shadow and attempt to improve himself.
I don't think for a second that Sasori could have defeated Oro. Has everybody forgotten how not even Tsunade and Jiraya [i]together[/] were able to do anything to hurt him? He escaped without any serious injuries.
By the way, is it just me or does Oro's body look exactly like his old one? In any case it looks nothing like the one he transfered into that we saw in Kabuto's flashback.
Agreed.
Kakashi used a technique that eats his own health. He used the Sharingan too often when he was not yet ready for it. The same goes for using Chidori, if you use that too much you will collapse completely as well.Honestly, I'm seriously beginning to doubt Kakashi's fighting prowess. He didn't even get wounded while fighting Deidara (who lost both arms and still was able to fight a couple of jonin and chunin succesfully), but still he was sentenced to spend a week in a hospital. That kind of man is a bit too far from being really powerful. It indicates if he actually gets a real scratch in a fight, he'll be finished right away. So, saying Kabuto is as good as Kakashi still keeps him a great distance below Oro or Akatsuki.
I think Oro prefers his original form so he just transforms his host bodies to look like he did in his first body by default. The only time he didn't was in the scenes right after he transfered into his current body, which one could assume has something to do with the fact that he just transferred into the body (that guy looked emo anyway).
As to Kakashi's I have to agree he's somewhat questionable. Even without Sharingan he's plenty badass, but he seems to need to use it to rise above the standard badass level of a jounin to get to the S-Rank, Akatsuki facing, super badass level he's so famous for. The problem is he rarely manages to use Sharingan to win a fight and then walks away afterwards under his own power. Kakashi is great but he just doesn't have the stamina to maintain the level of technique he seems to favor when going for the win, his overall battle prowess gets diminished. God forbid he ever has to fight two tough opponents in a row.
You are right. Kakashi is a great ninja but he just doesn't have the sheer stamina and techniques required to bring him to that other level. Every S-rank ninja we've seen has had something special that separates them from rest whether it be a Kekkai genkai, some forbidden techniques, or just raw power and an exorbitant amount of chakra. Kakashi has none of these, in essence he is just a normal ninja, nothing special, nothing that stands out which is exactly why I like him.
He is as venerable as anyone else and is usually at a disadvantage against any of his opponents but he always finds a way. The sharingan is usually what he uses to get him to that next level when he needs to but because it isn't "his" doujutsu it comes at a high price. He simply doesn't have the chakra he needs to be able to sustain it, in that respect however he is greatly improved.
When he first used it against Zabuza that battle was only for a few minutes and he passed out afterwards, when he was chasing Deidara and fighting Itachi he had it on for a much longer time and was unaffected. In the beginning of the Shippuden during his training with Naruto and Sakura he used it throughout and even used a few techniques high level techniques. During that fight he mentioned that he was now able to use the Sharingan overnight which I'm assuming since he was using it during the day means he could use normal sharingan for about a 24H period.
MS on the other hand is completely different. Itachi used the technique a total of three times after which he could no longer use it and needed some down time to rebuild his chakra. During the Gaara arc Kakashi also used the technique a total of three times and given that the sharingan is not his technique and his lack of chakra I give him alot of credit for being able to use it as many times as Itachi was able to. Now when you take all that into account him being incapacitated for a week because of using it that many times is astounding and shows you how much he has improved.
Going from simply using the Sharingan for a few minutes putting him out to being able to use it overnight and use MS 3 times is impressive. Itachi didn't even think Kakashi was capable of it. Kakashi also seems to be quite satisfied with himself he is not striving to be the strongest or the best ninja or anything like that he is simply doing his part. He is leaving all that up to Naruto.
@Kraco: Like I said before I think Kabuto’s medical skill may actually be better than Tsunade’s. The reason they went to her is because of her knowledge and experience. If you were dying would you go to a doctor who was young and talented or someone who was renowned for having the most knowledge and experience in the field? Tsunade may be better than Kabuto but that is because of her knowledge and experience something that is invaluable not because of any lack of skill on Kabuto’s part. Also like I said before I doubt Tsunade would have been able to do anything to help Oro simply because I don’t see how medical jutsu could have repaired damage that was caused by part of his soul being sealed.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Well, Oro seems to be able to use his hands again so it's not like the damage to his soul was permanent in any case.
And I would think twice before going to a doctor like Kabuto. He wouldn't give a shit of whether you make it or not. Probably he would just try to learn anything he could from your suffering but if he actually can cure you or not is of secondary importance. I'd say that alone makes Tsunade a lot better medical ninja. But if the question was whether Kabuto is a better mad medical scientist, then the answer might very well be different.
Oro's hands are healed because he switched to a different body. That part of his soul is still sealed but the soul of his host is still in the body.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
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