Well, you gotta remember, they werent out to destroy CB. They went out to steal a Gundam. Any heavy weapons might destroy the Gundam, and the HRL couldnt risk that, since they put so many resources into the operation. The thought was, if they could at least capture just one without damaging it, they could reverse engineer it, so they'ed make back all their money there.Originally Posted by Kraco
For all you awesome people, it's just Phoenix. The numbers are just the amount of times people misspell it.
Hence why I wrote in my first post they were far too greedy and thus got nothing but heavy losses.
You could learn a lot even from pieces. You don't need a scratchless and fully functional mobile suit for that. But now they wanted it all or nothing. They didn't even take Tieria's weapons and armor pieces when they withdrew...
I'm not just bashing this episode for nothing.
There's a damn good reason they didn't take any of Virtue's weapons, Nadleeh was still floating in the middle of all of it, at full power.
I don't think they wanted any of that crap anyway. They want the GN drive. The HRL can replicate any of the other parts, other than the GN drive and the beam weapons. Soma's Taozi is already more durable than any Gundam, and with her at the helm, she's more maneuverable than most of their beam weaponry.
Umm... Taking Tieria's weapons means Nadleeh would have been floating in the middle of scrap metal with no weapons. He might have found it harder to fight back with his fists alone. Although piloting Gundam, I'm sure he could have destroyed the HRL capital and surrounding areas with fists alone, but that's not the point.
Who are you arguing here with? If they can't replicate the beam weapons, like they obviously can't since they came equipped with 20th century weapons, then those weapons Tieria dropped would have been worth their weight in gold.The HRL can replicate any of the other parts, other than the GN drive and the beam weapons.
Wouldn't you be shocked by the Gundam you had "secured" exploding to expose a smaller mobile suit underneath? Tieria took that opportunity, grabbed the shoulder guns from them again (recall that the parts exploding outward hit Soma and the other HRL suits) and blasted the hell out of them.
They had other things to worry about, and the scene doesn't show well how quickly that all happened. The animators were too busy doing multiple angles of the girly gundam.
Aye, aye. At least I can be happy the pilots who were stupefied and failed to act were removed from the gene pool. One victory for the mankind, and we don't need to see those fools again in this series.
I haven't been doing anything but complaining in this thread, I realise, yet this episode did have some good scenes as well. The best were, of course, two meisters cracking (though I suppose the other one had been cracked more or less from the beginning). Tieria cracking however was very welcome because it should nicely reflect in his future actions, considering how he has been viewing all the other meisters as lower lifeforms. Though in another sense it's kind of pity because it would have been equally nice to see him continue to create extra tension by threatening the others. I suppose he can't do that very well anymore, as he thinks he failed, himself.
Damn Australian ISP offpeak quota forces me to wait ~24hrs to get my weekly Gundam....
Anyway, I thought this episode was done pretty well. As for capturing Kyrios with the carbon webbing, I think Sergei had every reason to believe it was sufficient. Firstly, the carbon webbing was quite effective in restricting movement. He then heard the pilot scream, and pass out. Having seen what happened to Soma during the flight test, he would expect Allelujah to be out for quite a while, and with the suit locked up with a harness, it should have been good to go. Then they sent all their troops to hinder any other Gundams while they rush the captured one off. If they had an entire escort, they would have just made a bunch of cannon fodder for Tieria. The escort idea would have been ideal if they didn't know enemy numbers, or didn't know where they'd attack/ambush etc. Kyrios's power output must have been 0.0. Even if they said it was like 5x, or 20x a normal Flag's output or whatever, the harness should have held. Just Gundam Godliness here. But again, all he had to do was get his left arm free. The scissor blade made short work of the cargo ship.
They were also shocked by Virtue's power anyway. When Sergei saw how powerful it's propulsion system was alone, he commanded Soma to cut something off. It wasn't some offensive move to disable the Gundam for capture. He knew they wouldn't take the whole thing back, so he just wanted something...anything... Then BAM! New gundam appeared. Lean & mean. Takes out 6 suits. Didn't see that coming. Shit. Retreat and recalculate. Any hanging around meant total annihilation.
I'm happy to see Tieria, Hallelujah and Soma take the spotlight this ep. I personnaly enjoyed watching Hallelujah's ruthlessness.
Also, some food for thought, a wiki link for the term Nadleeh. (no Gundam specific spoilers as far as I can see.)
Tiera cracking was indeed interesting. But something tells me he'll be back to form eventually...it would be a bit strange if he/she/it just totally changed their personality; but then again a slice of humble pie never hurt anyone (can't believe i said that). On another note, the Hallelujah thing was pretty messed up, i mean thats a terrible way to kill someone...a giant vibrating heat sword inches from your face, and then "Oops...i guess i can, after all !" Besides the obvious drawbacks, and all that damn crying (and the weird Mexican dude with the green haired boy: "I'm just an observer") I thought it was pretty good.
P.S. Hmm that link may give some insight to Tiera's character. It appears, at least in the case of Allelujah, that at least two of the gundams' names give a clue to the pilot's personality...
Wow this really gave me flashbacks of Visions of Escaflowne.
"Be sure to take this piece of $#!t(meant sheet)" - My dynamics professor(heavy japanese accent)
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Current Games: League of Legends(Fuck, its got me hooked again -_-)
I think Sergei expected the people inside the ship to be able to rip out the pilot in time before he wakes up. His miss in judgement isnt the fact that he decided to capture the gundam, but rather that he expected his troops to do their job quickly, obviously a foolish expectation.
Peace.
Guess he didn't know Hallelujah was so good at counter-ripping. I guess he expected there to some form of entry handle, as he said. Seeing nothing, he didn't think he'd had to cut the guy out so crudely. It'll be a shame for them to get Allelujah a suit like Soma's with external brain wave shielding, I want to see Hallelujah again. But how will they justify that? Guess if he says nothing, none of CB should know. We'll probably learn about Alllelujah's past next ep, since know Sergei nows he used to be one of their Enhanced Soldiers. Shouldn't be too difficult to find out which one he was. Tieria also experienced an eye colour change, wonder what that is about.
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Tue, 12-11-2007 at 08:39 AM.
What I liked:
Sergei's attack plan.
Really stuck it to them. In the future, should the HRL suck it up and decide that they just need to kill these damn Gundams, he had them in a tight spot that they could probably finish them from with a yet to be invented super weapon (Hunch: I think it's going to have something to do with those huge freaking solar panels.)
Hallelujah.
Now that's a man who enjoys his job. Impressive voice acting work and some seriously screwed up psychotic badass shit. His crazy monologue and even the somewhat mocking conversation he had with his little pussy bitch Coward persona were the best written segments of the show so far, in my opinion. I particularly liked how 'real' he was with his softer side, simply accepting that the Coward is the prime personality and his role of coming out when bitches need to get torn in half. Not every day you can see someone have such a harmonious sado-masochistic relationship with themselves. (Are you yaoi artists reading this shit? Get cracking!) Seriously though, that scene saved the otherwise weak second half of this episode.
It's not the willpower, it's how you use the super cool war toys (so far...)
This is something I hope they continue. I was scared when Tieria's eyes got that weird "I have crazy power now cuz I got mad and am about to just bust a model kit nut by pwning all these enemies" look in them. But in the end, it was the Virtue's ability to change into the Nadleeh that saved him.
Ditto on Allelujah finally pulling his shit together by counting on his super freaky military trained abilities.
Ming
That's a soldier right there folks. Why do all the perfectly sane awesome soldiers never even have faces?
Tieria Erde
He was absolutely about to destroy Schizo-boy and the Kyrios. Freaking awesome. Plus, the androgyny thing is something else, and it looks like they're going to be pretty classy with how they play that card. Think about it, you simply can't be gay for Tieria. You just can't be.
What I didn't like:
Sergei's Plan for Capturing the Gundams
I LOL'd when the HRL guy was holding that big looking chainsaw 'Cutter' thing to open up the Kyrios. Sure, that thing looks wicked, but have they not noticed that those Gundams take freaking beatings no problem, especially the cockpit? Those nets turned out to be the suck also.
Kraco is totally right, next time just go for the kill. I don't know if that was Sergei's fault or if that was just what he was ordered to do, but non-lethal force killed any chance of the HRL coming out on the upside of that affair.
Saji Crossroad
He secretly wants it in the butt. Remember, Louise said that he'd never done anything to her, so I suspect pegging is how they get their jollies.
The drunk CB strategist freaking crying
That woman is in charge? Get some tissues and some booze and get back out there. I can understand Allelujah crying, because he just watched his berserker second personality torture a dude to death.
"OMG it transformed! I am suddenly unable to perform basic combat abilities!"
Dudes, you know they can transform. You saw the Kyrios do it. You know the Dynames can be customized with different guns. You know you should probably run the hell away when they do stuff that you don't have a contingency plan for.
WOW. That plot bomb is something else. This is certainly new ground for a Gundam series. Gender politics in mah mecha?
The red hair on the Nadleeh reinforces the Xenogears analogy even further... Also, on the Nadleeh, did it look to anyone else like all of those 'purged parts' from the Virtue were still maintaining an eerily nice orbit around it even though it was firing huge fucking beam weapons at suddenly hapless mobile suits. (The HRL fuckers should have just ran like hell at that point. that's what i'd have done).
weirdness indeed overflows from the main characters. But I still think Lockon is the most normal... his twin potentially being some split-personality, androgynous Siamese twin that was nurtured to be a evil child soldier (confirmed plot event to be revealed in episode 40: Psychos with Big Fucking Weapons) notwithstanding.
It's not quite the Ambush in Siberia, but it was good to see the good guys looking pretty terrible. This show is good, but it needs just a little more kick.
Last edited by masamuneehs; Tue, 12-11-2007 at 03:04 AM.
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
Am I the only one that went 'WTF?' when Nadleeh appeared? I didn't see it coming and I liked it. I'm wondering how different Nadleeh is from Virtue. I doubt Nadleeh is only faster then Virtue, becuase if it is, what is the point of Virtue? Huge armor is pretty useless if you also have a GN barrier.
The whole Virtue-Nadleeh thing can also be more symbolic. Virtue looks buff and strong, while Nadleeh looks more feminine. And since I still think that Tieria is female, it should explain stuff.
The reason that Soma had to cut something off was IMO more a way to try to cripple it and hopefully slow it down a bit. A Gundam in pieces can be restored.
I saw on ANN that this series only has 26 episodes.. is this true?
Another thing I picked up this episode regarding Tieria.
He talks to Veda. We see Allelujah talk to Hallelujah and vice versa because they talk back. What about Veda? He talks back? We've known Tieria to almost honor Veda's decisions, that he follows them strictly, proudly. But he communicates with Veda? When people are disparate or emotionally unstable, they'll tend to call for those who are closest to them. From what I saw, Tieria's eye colour change looks almost electronic, and as soon as he thought I'm gonna lose Nadleeh comes to life. Also, take a look at around ep1 (6:00 Menclave's version), you see Tieria floating (assuming in space) in a room that looks like the core of a supercomputer. He seems to be either sleeping. meditating, or communicating. Nothing's to say he doesn't have anything implanted that allows him to communicate with electronic devices. If he's the only one to have such a close relationship with Veda, it can explain why he finds himself to be the only fit Gundam pilot (until this ep), and why he's so devastated at having failed himself.
Also, he said to Allelujah "you too are unfit to be a Gundam pilot" when he aimed for the cargo ship. The "too" may have referred to Setsuna, or maybe Lockon (terrorist opinion), or maybe someone else....
edit: In reference to the Nadleeh concept, Veda can be an entity for the it/genderless spirit
edit2:Nadleeh's hair is a weapon of sorts I think. Maybe it is razor sharp and can be manipulated with GN particles. The first season is 26 eps. It is slated Code Geas S2 comes on for a season, followed by Gundam 00 S2.
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Tue, 12-11-2007 at 09:25 AM.
I thought it was established early on that Veda was a computer / AI system that assists CB by running scenarios and coming up with different options for them to take. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the AI preservation of the CB founder guy, and also the room you mention from episode 1.
What makes me believe Veda is this, rather than just another split-personality or something along those lines, is how Tieria also referred to "the plan" in this episode. He was upset that he revealed Nadleeh because "it wasn't supposed to be this early in the plan".
This brings up yet another thing, something that Tieria's eye and the Chinese girl's comments at the end. First, we never see Tieria push buttons or anything to activate Nadleeh. It is almost like Tieria's Gundam senses his/her despair and transforms in response to that.
That makes you think. Maybe all the Gundams are built to respond to their pilots' mental status? Maybe... (but I hope not). It could very well just be Tieria.
And when the Chinese girl says that "The Gundams are the perfect embodiement of CB founder's ideals. But why? Why are the Gundam pilots so imperfect?" When you take this and combine it with Tieria's fanatical devotion to Veda and "the plan" (something he's willing to sacrifice his teammates and other Gundams in order to protect), Tieria's constantly harping on "being worthy to pilot a Gundam" plus the possibility that Tieria might be the only pilot for Virtue/Nadleeh... Well, Tieria is the 'senior pilot' right? Lockon sure never saw the Nadleeh. Setsuna and Allelujah have childhoods originating outside CB....
It wouldn't surprise me if Tieria was built to fulfill some special role. At least seriously biologically manipulated after birth, once they determined that he was a Nadleeh with potential for awesome powers. We've seen genetics, biological enhancement and gene therapy emerge as themes in recent Gundams (also in this one with the HRL's soldier program). I think it's more than believable that Tieria was created, or at least raised, according to explicit instructions from Veda left by the CB founder in some attempt to make a human who matches his ideals...
Also, good call about the Nadleeh's hair possibly being a weapon. I thought it was just a cosmetic decoration and some visible allegory for the Gundam's 'sex' being female, but it sure could have practical purposes... That would also reinforce the idea that Nadleeh is a close-range melee-type model (sticking with the 'duality' theme when reflected on Tieria), and that it annihilating those HRL soldiers was due to both surprise on their part and sheer speed. But it has to have a drawback somewhere...
Next episode seems to also be about Allelujah (I mean, it's titled after his name...). Is it just me, or are we getting a ton of his backstory while never learning much about the others? A character development episode after a fight like this is fine with me... even though it really makes me wish this battle had resulted in a worse defeat for CB. Nearly halfway through the first season (a full 1/5th of the show) and we've yet to witness more than just a strategical defeat for our good guys. You'd think the global balance of power, CB, or one of the countries would have undergone some serious change/developement by this point... but they haven't. So far this lack of change is my biggest gripe with this show. I crave some Operation Daybreak type shake-up... a minor character death or some other serious loss would be good too...
Last edited by masamuneehs; Tue, 12-11-2007 at 10:14 AM.
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
The "hairs" are cables to power and control the pieces of armor that made Virtue. If I could read Japanese, I could probably find a source to back that up, but for now I'll just use wiki
(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...Gundam_Nadleeh )
Anybody else think "Seed Mode!" for a second when Tieria's eyes changed?
^^ those type of eyes in characters(glowing with lines) are when they have power to manipulate something.
It could be that Nadleeh uses it's hair to hack MS's systems and possibly poison them with GN particals.The hair-like connector cords that project from the Nadleeh's head are in Virtue mode used to mediate the operation of the systems within the armor plating.
"Life is hilariously cruel" by Bender
Am I the only one that wondered more about how Virtue purged his amour while being bound by all those cables and that gel? I mean if it was that easy to break lose then Virtue should have been able to escape even without purging it's amour.
Second of all didn't Exia react to Setsuna in his fight against Ali? The part where the core start glowing since both Nadleeh and Exia did that also at that point Setsuna got emotional and his sword suddenly started to cut through that gun thing sword that Ali had without him pushing any buttons
Saiji got a lot of screen times so far and even though he seems like a useless side character i think that will eventually play into the bigger plot of the show.
Setsuna is a person with a twisted childhood and feel the need the eradicate wars even at the cost of a few lives. Well, not so much Setsuna, if i had to choose Tiera would fit that criteria alot more. Setsuna however see himself as the Gundam and in a position to judge the actions of others. He somewhat represent CB view (at least the view they are trying to convince everyone they believe in) of having the power and right to judge what is wrong and right. Those beliefs and actions will eventually get more innocent peoples involve, peoples who probably never would have anything to do with wars otherwise.
Saiji on the other hand is a completely normal kid with a normal life so far. He seems to object CB actions so far from his reactions and i think that eventually one of CB armed intervention will end up with Louise or his Sister dying.
I believe that Saiji will end up representing those who believe that as bad as things were, they would've been much better off and less peoples would've die if CB never existed. I can see that kind of sentiment growing considering the civilians casualties from the terrorist bombing.
Just some random guessing on my part but i feel that is what the story will head toward. They are doing a Code Geass style with this show and split the entire thing into 2 season of 25 episodes from my knowledge so it'll be interesting to see what kind of conflict will arise by the end of the first half.
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