Naruto Chapter 380

[February]

How is exceptional speed more acceptable than a kage bunshin ambush?
You say that the speed is advantageous for being able to counter attacks, but we've already seen Naruto utilize kage bunshins against Kakuzu right off the bat to allow him to analyze Kakuzu's attack strategy...how is this different?

Ok, clearly Naruto made a bad move, and the Abdula-approved tactic would have been to quietly dispell the additional kage bunshins that Naruto has in the woods, even though a kage bunshin with rasengan was already hidden to the enemy, because there was a possibility that the kage bunshin could fail.

I'd have to agree with Abdula on this one. Making a kage bunshin + rasengan takes out a fair amount of chakra that could have been used better. Most of us are angry at Naruto, not because he did the rasengan+kage bunshin, BUT because he always does it without even thinking about anything. He lets his emotion control his actions. Thats a major weakness in a ninja, who is suppose to be devoid of emotions.

Kakashi is a skilled ninja with extra analyzing ability (sharingan) who makes logical and safe decisions in times of crisis. If your leader is Kakashi, and he tells you to do something, as a subordinate ninja, you should definately listen to someone who has more experience than you, especially if its Kakashi.

I agree that Naruto using his bunshin could make the enemy reveal his fighting style, BUT, Naruto also revealed to Tobi that he could use a kage bunshin and a very powerful melee chakra attack. This makes Tobi extra cautious in the future battle with Naruto from staying very close to him.

Finally, Naruto has had experiences with Akatsuki before. He's not a 12 year old little boy anymore. He's gotten stronger and better. However, he still shows signs of his younger self by ignoring his battle experience instinct that tells him Akatsuki is dead serious and charges at one without analyzing. By doing that, he is practically refusing to observe and plan ahead, so us manga readers are extremely frustrated about it.

Naruto IS a damn idiot

[Assertn]

I'd have to agree with Abdula on this one. Making a kage bunshin + rasengan takes out a fair amount of chakra that could have been used better. Most of us are angry at Naruto, not because he did the rasengan+kage bunshin, BUT because he always does it without even thinking about anything. He lets his emotion control his actions. Thats a major weakness in a ninja, who is suppose to be devoid of emotions.

NO. kage bunshin + rasengan takes VERY minimal chakra from Naruto.
Did you forget how he had entire day-training sessions of thousands of kage bunshins all performing rasengans? Plus the kage bunshins were already made prior to Tobi showing up. Sure he's emotional, but that didn't make his attack irrational.

Kakashi is a skilled ninja with extra analyzing ability (sharingan) who makes logical and safe decisions in times of crisis. If your leader is Kakashi, and he tells you to do something, as a subordinate ninja, you should definately listen to someone who has more experience than you, especially if its Kakashi.

What if Kakashi said that to put Tobi into a false sense of security? Obviously Kakashi's not going to say "Naruto, attack him from behind!" The more likely scenario, Kakashi probably didn't know Naruto had a trap already set up.
Meh, minor details regardless.

I agree that Naruto using his bunshin could make the enemy reveal his fighting style, BUT, Naruto also revealed to Tobi that he could use a kage bunshin and a very powerful melee chakra attack. This makes Tobi extra cautious in the future battle with Naruto from staying very close to him.

Naruto thought he could kill Tobi then and there. In any other shounen series, people always bitch about characters sandbagging all the time. Now people bitch about characters that go straight for the kill. I think the good guys had more to gain from Tobi revealing that physical attacks pass right through him than Tobi had to gain from Naruto revealing that he has the rasengan.

Finally, Naruto has had experiences with Akatsuki before. He's not a 12 year old little boy anymore. He's gotten stronger and better. However, he still shows signs of his younger self by ignoring his battle experience instinct that tells him Akatsuki is dead serious and charges at one without analyzing. By doing that, he is practically refusing to observe and plan ahead, so us manga readers are extremely frustrated about it.

Naruto charging is his way of analyzing. Doing it with clones is his new smart way of analyzing.

Naruto is not an idiot.

[toonice714]

Finally sugetsu and shino are gonna fight. Good call naruto by using a sneak attack to test the enemy. Now kakashi and company have a better chance to analyse the enemy's strategy. No physical damage for tobi.

Well yahiko cant possibly be pein. Now that we know that the rin'nengan can be projected through others he probably uses the bodies as human puppets. I personally think this just might be an elevated form of a marrionette technique via rin'nengan. That would explain the containers that hold pein's bodies. They could be perservation tanks. But i would assume that would consume a massive amount of chakra.

And is it me or do the uchihas just have a lot of money and landmarks. There seem to be a lot of random sites that are in and around konoha. They must have gained a lot more prestige and money during the 15 years they have been around. That police force they ran must have been extremely lucrative and momentous.

Smash bros makes dudes crazy fellas. My bad. Back to the anime :P

[Abdula]

How is exceptional speed more acceptable than a kage bunshin ambush?
You say that the speed is advantageous for being able to counter attacks, but we've already seen Naruto utilize kage bunshins against Kakuzu right off the bat to allow him to analyze Kakuzu's attack strategy...how is this different?

Ok, clearly Naruto made a bad move, and the Abdula-approved tactic would have been to quietly dispell the additional kage bunshins that Naruto has in the woods, even though a kage bunshin with rasengan was already hidden to the enemy, because there was a possibility that the kage bunshin could fail.

We don't know for sure whether Naruto used a shadow clone or not, if it was anybody else I would've thought for sure that it was a clone but with Naruto you never know. Whether he used the shadow clone or not doesn't matter because what he did was unnecessary and ninjas aren't supposed to be making such hasty decisions.

I thought he had already dispelled the other clones when he found out where Sasuke was. My tactic would simply be to asses the situation and come up with a plan of attack and Naruto's clones would of course be a big part of that plan because they are difficult to deal with. My point is that what Naruto did was completely foolish because they already have a clear advantage even if Tobi is stronger than everyone of them individually it is very unlikely that he would be able to deal with them as a group especially considering the diversity of their abilities. I don't know how anyone would be able to deal with Naruto, Sakura, Shino's bugs, Kakashi's Sharingan, Hinata's Byakugan, Yamato's jutsu etc all by themselves.

Kurenai's team is specialized in tracking and since it was their mission to find either Sasuke or Itachi they won't be returning until it is completed. Naruto only rushed at Tobi because he is so emotional about Sasuke. Sasuke is not his biggest problem right now Tobi is and Naruto in his haste is overlooking him. They already know where Sasuke is and even if they lose him with their abilities he would be easy enough to find because he is not attempting to hide himself whatsoever.

Anyway Naruto in essence just showed the enemy his hand which really doesn't matter much since Tobi already knows his abilities. Oh and Naruto didn't do what he did because of any strategy. Don't fool yourselves into believing such nonsense, Naruto only did it because like he said every time he gets close to Sasuke something gets in his way, and if I'm sneaking up on an opponent from behind then shouting at him to get out of my way pretty much takes away the element of surprise now doesn't. Its not as if he just sneaked up on him and attacked like what Kakashi did to Kakuzu he yelled at him well before then and gave away his position so even if you allow yourself to believe that Naruto attacked Tobi because of some strategic decision making, then yelling at him would just be another example of how Naruto is an idiot.

This situation is not the first or only thing that is influencing my opinion of Naruto. Liking a character doesn't mean you have to stand up for every decision he makes. Naruto is too emotional so whether you are a ninja or not if you let your emotions control your decision making too much you will end up making some idiotic decisions. Naruto obviously doesn't have the ability to control his emotions and him being a ninja only makes it more evident, that is why I say Naruto is an idiot.


Thank you February.

And is it me or do the uchihas just have a lot of money and landmarks. There seem to be a lot of random sites that are in and around konoha. They must have gained a lot more prestige and money during the 15 years they have been around. That police force they ran must have been extremely lucrative and momentous.

They been around since before Konoha was founded, but you are right though they seem to haves tons of shit scattered all over the place, but that would make sense if they were an ancient clan whose bloodline was passed down from generation to generation.

[Assertn]

tldr;

Actually you didn't really disprove any of my arguments, and this is pretty much the point of the debate where I'd just be wasting my time saying anything else.

Except that having February on your side isn't necessarily a good thing

[Abdula]

There isn't really anything to disprove as we could both be right, its more of a counterargument.

Loled, at your February comment. He made some good points though. Today has just been a weird day for me its not normal for me to have anyone agree with me.

[Psyke]

Naruto is rash, doesn't think like Shikamaru, acts like a clown at times, but he is not an idiot. He defeated Neji, Gaara, and Kabuto using planned strategies. He was made to look more like an idiot through the 1 year filler period, using rasengan to make noodles, etc.

Anyway, my point is that he's not dumb. And he's also the number 1 ninja at surprising people.

[rockmanj]

And he's also the number 1 ninja at surprising people.

I gotta go with Assertn and Psyke on this one. Ninjas are known for sneak attacks and such, and Just because Kakashi said one thing doesn't mean he was necessarily telling the truth...its a little thing called deception; and actually Assertn made all the points i was going to. Basically what i'm saying is...getting the drop on your enemy, especially as a ninja couldn't really be a bad thing.

[DDBen]

Well lets see Naruto has a Hoard of clones currently in the area its far from a stretch to assume that it was a shadow clone attacking Tobi and not the actual Naruto who has no reason to not be with the rest of the group.

Also Tobi identified it as a shadow clone and the not is clearly directed at how the attack didn't do anything. Please note specifically there is a panel between him saying its a shadow clone and him saying not where he makes a noise like he was hit by the attack.

Naruto is rash at times but usually only due to the Kyuubi's influence that isn't a fault the character can help and due to his training and going 4 tails its been more of a issue post time skip then before as a plot point more then a character flaw.

Honestly I find it much more likely that Naruto was making a strategic attack here then any sort of idiotic rush in head on move.

[February]

oh gosh..Im getting bashed... Give me a break guys : ( I am already depressed because college finals are coming up

Despite my opinion, there is something I can give credit for Naruto for. He improved so much over the series. Does anyone remember when he couldn't even make a proper regular bunshin? Now he make a kage bunshin like he inhales air. I guess he improved one of the most in the series through hard work.

I just wish he would change his outfit. Orange& Black jumpsuit outfit is.......o...ka..y...

[Abdula]

Um, if it was anyone else I would give them some credit for strategy. I would give it to Naruto except for the fact that he has a history of making rash, uneducated, emotionally motivated decisions combine that with his rhetoric and then describing this particular action as anything but Naruto just being an idiot again doesn't make sense. So that will be my stand until its proven otherwise.

I know you people like Naruto but come on, think of all the things Naruto has done and then tell me he is not an idiot.

Naruto is rash, doesn't think like Shikamaru, acts like a clown at times, but he is not an idiot. He defeated Neji, Gaara, and Kabuto using planned strategies. He was made to look more like an idiot through the 1 year filler period, using rasengan to make noodles, etc.

Anyway, my point is that he's not dumb. And he's also the number 1 ninja at surprising people.

How can being rash and acting like a clown not be described as idiot. By definition all that is necessary for one to be considered an idiot is for them to have bad judgment so whether this was a bad move to make or not is up for debate. As with most battles what is or isn't a good move can only be judged in hindsight. Naruto however has consistently shown that he makes bad judgment calls therefore he is in my opinion an idiot. Enough Said.

Um, I know there is absolutely no way I could look good if I attack a nice guy like Psyke but... Anyway I didn't watch the fillers and that is not what I'm basing my assessment of Naruto on and Naruto defeating Neji, Gaara and Kabuto atleast in my opinion didn't make any sense. There was absolutely no way Naruto should've won those battles and they certainly weren't done well enough for anyone to say that Naruto was any good.

Anyway I could go into a long rant about why I hated the way those battles were done, not because Naruto one but because of the way the battle themselves were executed. Technically Naruto didn't beat Kabuto, the Sannin and Shizune aside if the battle had ended with the rasengan, Naruto would've been dead and Kabuto would've walked away.

[DB_Hunter]

Bloody hell, what's with this new breed of gotwoot member... you all write waaaaay too much.

Naruto rushing from behind, well its not that dumb. It could have worked. Why try it again when it didn't work in the past? Because he is now stronger/faster than before, so it could work.

[Genma]

I was thinking the same thing, DB. I know I rarely post on here but I can barely be bothered to read all of Abdula's paragraphs (no offense).

That aside, I liked the chapter. As with a lot of people I find it weird that Naruto is automatically qualified as an idiot to some people because he attacks without apparently thinking it through, and because he performs the same type of attack every time. I think the anime has butchered peoples' feelings towards Naruto since he used Rasengan + Shadow clone so much, whereas in the manga it's nowhere near that. And who knows, maybe he did fully analyze the situation; you can't conclude he's an idiot from just two panels.

Looking forward to all the fights, especially the Kisame vs Suigetsu.

[DeathscytheVII]

Well, i think we should wait for Kishi to release the next chapter before we make any 'Naruto is an idiot' judgments. After all, this argument is basically overanalyzing what? three panels in this chapter, thats not really a lot of information to use. I would wait to see Kakashi or the other Ninja's reaction to Naruto's rash attack before saying 'he's an idiot.'

I'm going with DB on this one. Rash, but not without reason, he is after all, trained by the great Jiraiya, he had to have improved.

[Konohamaru]

Personally if I were Naruto, I'd probably do the same thing. After all he gains knowledge from his clones after they're disposed of. Even so, it's not a risk to send out a clone. Who knows, he might learn something from the enemy sending out a surprise attack like that. In this case Naruto and his team mates just realised they might have trouble touching Tobi.

[hiddenOne]

I think Tobi is a ghost. Think about it, first Sasuke cut him in half and now Naruto hit with a rasengan. Both times it had no effect. Tobi seems to every where at once first he is there when Sasuke fought Deidera then meeting with Pain then on top of the statue and now he is fighting Naruto.

[KCMmmmm]

Does it look like Itachi is sitting at the top of an Aztec shrine to anybody else?

[Abdula]

Actually it did. It looked like he was sitting on top an ancient throne.

Well, i think we should wait for Kishi to release the next chapter before we make any 'Naruto is an idiot' judgments. After all, this argument is basically overanalyzing what? three panels in this chapter, thats not really a lot of information to use. I would wait to see Kakashi or the other Ninja's reaction to Naruto's rash attack before saying 'he's an idiot.

Um, I was just wondering if you actually read my post?

Bloody hell, what's with this new breed of gotwoot member... you all write waaaaay too much.

Sorry, I write so much I'll try to cut back but reading and understanding what I've written has been a problem with some people so I try to reiterate myself as much as possible and it seems some people still don’t get it. I didn't think having to read a lot would bother people considering that this is an internet forum.

[KCMmmmm]

I think Tobi is a ghost. Think about it, first Sasuke cut him in half and now Naruto hit with a rasengan. Both times it had no effect. Tobi seems to every where at once first he is there when Sasuke fought Deidera then meeting with Pain then on top of the statue and now he is fighting Naruto.

It's possible. If Tobi turns out to be Madara, it would explain how Madara hasn't yet died of old age. If Tobi is Obito, it explains how he is still around despite the huge boulder landing on his face. I don't think there are ghosts in the Naruto universe though. Still, it's much more interesting than the "Naruto is an idiot" argument.

[Abdula]

Yeah that one is getting old and it seems like its been going on forever and I know it will happen again.

We have never seen any thing to suggest that ghost exist in Naruto. If Tobi is a ghost then you would think that the seemingly limitless abilities of the sharingan would've noticed something like that when Sasuke attacked him.

Tobi being a ghost is not even possible in my opinion because that would seriously lack any creativity on Kishimoto's part and his originality is what he is known for.

It is far more likely that Tobi has a jutsu or ability that allows him to become intangible at will. I think we'll find out exactly what it is in the next chapter given the immense analytic abilities of the leaf ninjas he is facing.

I'm far more interested in Jiraiya's fate and the Uchihas and Mist ninjas facing off than I am with Tobi anyway. For some reason I don't get the feeling that Itachi has any intention to kill Sasuke. It seems that he has had some plan for him from the very beginning and he has only been pushing him and testing him to get him to do what he wants. The recent revelations about Tobi and the fact that he and Pein have some plan for the Uchihas and Akatsuki beyond what was previously thought, causes further intrigue.

I wonder what the mentioning of Madara and his possible connection to the Kyuubi has to do with Tobi and Itachi being in Akatsuki and Akatsuki's goal of extracting the Kyuubi. If it turns out that the Kyuubi being sealed in Naruto and what happened to the Uchihas was all a part of someone else's plan and all of this was set in motion since the founding of Konoha and the first's battle with Madara that would be just mind-boggling.