Well I guess Kishi lied when he made Jiraiya, I believe, say that the Rin'egan was the strongest of the eyes.Originally Posted by Death BOO Z
Well I guess Kishi lied when he made Jiraiya, I believe, say that the Rin'egan was the strongest of the eyes.
Good work Jiraiya, you look kind of cool.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
Id3alistic, you can lay offf those sarcastic remarks. nothing goes by me.
Payne's godmodeyes don't nesscery have 'seeing' applications, as far as super powered eyes seem to evoleve in the naruto storyline; it's possible that the eyes work out as 'cannon' for a a 'hyper-beam' ray, or a kamehameha wave. you know, same as Kakashi's dimension blast.
not to mention that even the MSharingan doesn't include 'seeing' attributes, instead, he has hypnosis powers.
strongest of eyes can also mean he can pull 5000 KS with his eyelids, and create tornados when he blinks.
so far we haven't seen any form of improved eye sight from Payne's godmodeyes.
Yes shadow clones are only a diversion that is my point, they would only be a diversion that would come at the cost of a large amount of charka that wouldn't necessarily do anything because even if he does divert the attention of the original Pein it wouldn’t matter much because he is not fighting clones the jutsu wouldn’t disperse with one hit because he already landed a major hit before than didn’t really have a major effect, not to mention the fact that his clones can be easily destroyed, Pein could easily destroy them with the summons he keeps using which wouldn’t even be necessary all he needs to do is hit them with a kunai.
We have already seen how the rinnegan is better than the Byakugan three points of view>one point of view. I think you are thinking about this battle the wrong way, Jiraiya is not fighting one opponent now he is fighting three different ones, and they are summons not clones so they wouldn’t be destroyed by one simple hit.
Try thinking of this battle more like Orochimaru + Nidaime and Shodaime vs Sandaime, rather than the Neji vs Naruto battle.
It doesn't have to be expressly stated that his eyes gives him 'seeing applications" its a given and it has already been shown. What does he have to come and say " Look I can do this with my eyes. and I can do this too and then it gives me this other cool ability" for you to be satisfied. Your comments only make me more curious as to exactly how old you are.
So How old are you?
Last edited by Abdula; Sat, 11-10-2007 at 04:11 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Damn it. You made me double post.
20, Are you sure?
Last edited by Abdula; Sat, 11-10-2007 at 04:12 PM.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
is the 3 points of view really an application of the godmodeyes? I was under the impression it was a sort of telephatic connection between the three bodies of payne.
all i'm saying is that for now, it seems that Jiraya's hermit mode is more powerful (skilled, dangerous, comptent) than any of Payne's bodies so far, and that Payne is avoiding damage by covering up his weakness (blind spots) with his multi-bodies.
despite all that's been said about shadow clones and chackra waste, I don't think that creating a small mass of clones for a few mintues is what's going to drain Jiraya out of his chackrea this fight, he might not be Naruto, but he's still one of the san-nin.
I'm not saying that he should have the clones win a fight, but if he's able to to stop the 3-man (body) coverage of his action, he can overcome the blocking/shielding startegy Payne uses at this part of the fight.
let's see, last fights in Naruto? did the charecter make a boirng speech about what they can do?
Hidan's skills? yes, Shikamaru and Asume did it for him.
Kazoku's abilities? yes, Kakashi also helped explanning.
Sasuke's new found uber startegy? yep, he pretty much spoonfed us with it.
clayboy's clay bombs? he told us all about it.
and that's from the recent fights, most of the charecters explain ( themselves or through someone else) thier powers and what makes them so strong
eye bloodline skills doesn't have to tied with sight improvment, the sharingan has hypnosis properties and space ripping powers. the godmode eyes might just be an outward symptom of something that goes through the entire body. just like how red eyes in anime imply 'evil' and 'bloodlust', rather than spesific eye skills.
I'm 20, though I don't think it has anything to do with the subject, unless you'll be willing to withdraw your arguments if frogking (32, if I recall) and Psyke (28, or something) tell you so. Age isn't a a wisdom factor, nor is it a valied point for internet bashing.
The fact that all of the things Pein summons have had Rinnegan looking eye's is defiantly related to Pein having the Rinnegan and I see it as evidence that he's getting the shared viewpoint thing from the Rinnegan, however that has not been confirmed so it's nothing but speculation.
Summoning 2 other people whose viewpoints are shared with yours doesn't necessarily have to be a Rinnegan-based ability. Unless it's explicitly stated that something is a Rinnegan ability there's no way to distinguish it from a jutsu anyone could learn that Pein just happens to know or have created.
Hmmm, a fat, robotic enemy that can absorb attacks thrown at him... remind anyone of anything?
I think I know precisely what I mean
when I say it's a schpadoinkle day
Buu....?
^
Really? then what kind of jutsu could justify having more than one point of view if not the Rin'negan? Its obvious that it is. Can't be anything else.
It seems like that's the source of Nagato's power. If Jiraiya can take out the clones, (or rather anything with those eyes) he's in the clear to attack him.
oh yeah! new chapter woohoo!
EDIT: wow intense chapter...
i really enjoyed the concept of the jiraiya's fire attack, one for fire, one for wind to make the fire stronger, and the last one for oil to multiply the flames..crazy. But I was so confused because I didnt even get to see flames, I just saw water in the very next scene
I dont like how the frogs argue / talk so much, they should just be quiet and simply fight
the ultimate rasengan...that is a wtfbbq moment..jiraiya must have some serious amount of chakra in that form to make a rasengan that big
the power of rinnegan is so useful...being able to see from different points of view at the same time but did someone else notice that when the clone was in the cloud of smoke, he closed his eyes? maybe seeing through another clone's perspective requires that you close your original eyes..?
as for jiraiya, he's kinda been showing us jutsus that we have already seen:
- summon frogs
- use fire + oil combination jutsu
- hair needle attack
- rasengan
although they are different variations of the techniques, its still the same concept
anyway great chapter! I can seriously see why jiraiya is a sannin now. Glad i waited 2 weeks for this chapter
Last edited by February; Sat, 11-10-2007 at 10:37 PM.
Perfect examples those were all talkative characters, whose abilities interestingly enough were only explained right before their deaths or the end of their battles.
Jiraiya and Pein aren't characters who talk about their strengths, weaknesses, abilities etc. If i remember correctly we didn't learn anything important about the Byakugan or the Sharingan until long after they were first introduced. In the case of the sharingan we didn't learn much of its abilities until the 'epic' Naruto vs Sasuke battle, and I still can't tell you exactly what its abilities are, it seems like every time we see a Sharingan user they have some incredible new ability.
What I was trying to say was that Pein isn't much of a talker so I don't expect him to say much about himself, but I would expect that at the end of this battle we would get a nice little summary of "some" of his abilities as is the norm in Naruto, although I believe it will never be fully explained until he is finally defeated, even so it would still be one those "?" cases similar to Orochimaru, Hidan, and Kakuzu.
I don't consider age to be a wisdom factor nor was it my intention to bash anyone though I do have a knack for offending people. I view age as more of a reference, wisdom comes with experience, and it is the closest thing there is to a unit of measurement, I asked your age simply so that I could attempt to better understand your perspective and determine how much leniency to give you.
@Raven:
I know what you mean and for some reason that line just reminds me of Craig Ferguson’s opening monologue.
@February:
All the major power ups in Naruto are always just an expansion of their already existing abilities, think Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi, Itachi, Orochimaru and the Sound Ninja etc. I would only expect Jiraiya to pull out one or two completely new jutsus at most.
I got the impression that the toads were arguing, more to try and distract Pein than anything else, besides its normal in Naruto for summons to have weird conversations in the middle of big battles especially the Toads, plus they are funny and they fit Jiraiya’s character well.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
I also am not satisfied that each of the 3 being able to give instantaneous vision of their respective blind spots to eachother is the extent, if not one of several abilities, of the rinnegan. it's like woohoo another creative way of giving a ninja a complete panoramic view so the tactic of sneaking up on him is eliminated. i dont consider something like that worthy of what is presented as the most powerful doujutsu in the naruto universe. copying techniques and predicting movements before they happen, as is, is way cooler to me.
so yeah i'm also still waiting to see what rinnegan does.
heck, I hate reverse conversations. it feels like work.
even Shino (least talketive charecter in Naruto) explaines his skills and startegies.
Wheather Payne is a talkative person or not doesn't matter, the point of the argument is the godemodeyes sight properties. I say that the 3-way view comes from a bond between Payne's three bodies, you say that's it's a direct influence from the godemodeyes. Since it hasn't been cleared yet, we're still theorizing.
summary: since Payne (or someone else) hasn't said that his mutual viewpoint coverage comes from the bloodline, we don't know what's the origin of the skill.
as far as we know, the godemodeyes don't have any direct effect over seeing compasity.
I don't have any intetion of going through all of your examples of skills which've been supposdly 'secret', so i'll focus on the two most obvious ones:
Sharingan: first introduced when Kakashi fight Zabuza, (I double checked myself on this one, chapter 012) they say "sharingan" and then Sasuke jump with an explanntion. not much of keeping it secert, is it?
Byakougan: same thing, when describbed when Neji fights Hinata. so much for holding out the information, right?
I don't consider age to be a wisdom factor nor was it my intention to bash anyone though I do have a knack for offending people. I view age as more of a reference, wisdom comes with experience, and it is the closest thing there is to a unit of measurement, I asked your age simply so that I could attempt to better understand your perspective and determine how much leniency to give you.
listen, don't run in circles around the insult, if you want to say I'm an idiot (giving me leniency?), just say it, I promise that you won't be struck by lightnning.
I don't ask if your parents are brothers (just to understand where your retartdness comes from) and if somebody removed major parts of your headin a surgery lately (to see where all the missing brain parts went to), do I?
you aren't even older than me, so age-based stuck-up-ness is completly out of the picture here, right?
anyway, I'm out, the nation calls.
see you in two weeks, or in 279.
None of us know anything about what the Rinnegan actually does yet. How can you say the apparent mind share can't be anything else? We've repeatedly seen strange new jutsu from people that they either learned or created on their own.
Here's a potential explanation. We know shadow clones, upon disappearing, merge their experiances and consciousnesses with the original (and perhaps any other clones too). It's not beyond the realm of possibility then, that Pein improved or adapted the concept behind that jutsu to create a permanent link between his consciousness and that of his clones/summoned bodies sharing their experiences and consciousness all at the same time.
This theory in no more or less viable than the Rinnegan theory, though it is at least extrapolated from previously established principles in the Narutoverse instead of the more obscure 'god mode eyes made it possible'.
I do agree that the simpler explanation is that the Rinnegan is the source of the ability just because, however just because it's the simplest explanation doesn't mean it is the explanation that will be given to us.
I do expect it to be revealed in the next few chapters that the Rinnegan is the cause but until it is revealed it is still just speculation, it's may be more likely than anything else because of its simplicity and predictability but that doesn't make it set in stone.
Actually, up until the end, I was thinking that Jiraiya had no chance whatsoever, but at the very end, he learned how Pein was managing to dodge his attacks without seeing them. This will lead to him developing a new way to fight without being seen (isn't that what ninjas are supposed to do anyway?) and will probably lead to the fight seriously picking up in a few chapters.
Kind of reminds me of DBZ in the way Goku always plays around for a few rounds before "getting serious" (and then Krillin says something like, "he was just messing around!?") Yeah.
Its funny that in your two examples spectators were the ones who explained the Sharingan's and Byakugan's abilities, I thought I stated pretty clearly that I believed an explanation would come soon, especially since Jiraiya seems to be understanding how Pein's abilities work, also I was simply saying that even though we did find out about the two other doujutsus, nothing really significant was mentioned until later. In the Kakashi vs Zabuza battle the sharingan appeared to be more of a cheap trick that could easily be overcome, and in the Neji vs Hinata battle the only note worthy mention was the gentle fist technique, copying someone's techniques and an eye of insight weren't anything special because anyone would be able to do that at that level. Neji's insight and Sasuke's ability to copy techniques didn't help them at all in their battles with Naruto.
I also stated that it was not my intention to insult you, nor was it my intention to appear conceited but you obviously have come to your own conclusions, if i wanted to insult you I would have done so in a more direct manner. I'm sorry but I don't experience emotions or feelings in a conventional sense and since I don't know you personally I can't begin to understand what you or others would find offensive. Anyway this is becoming redundant and monotonous, so hope you regard me more open-mindedly in future and remember that this is all conjecture and shouldn’t be taken personally.
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Actually, I was thinking of Android 19.
I think I know precisely what I mean
when I say it's a schpadoinkle day
I waited two weeks for this chapter and it turned out to be a bit of a letdown…and as many people have predicted the human summoning seem to have their own unique abilities.
The fat guy to me… although J-man says he ate his attack, he seems to have a similar ability to MS…(the shield that Kakashi used to send Diedaras explosion into another dimension). If that’s the case he may also be able to redirect that attack and use it against J-man (Sort of like Nova in Bleach)…(a guess but I sort of doubt kishi will copy something like that) But anyway although the skinny guy’s doing most of the attacking we haven’t seen what abilities he’s got…maybe this is just Pains plan of analyzing J-mans power to find a weakness.
And why did Pain summon these two out of the 6?
A guess but maybe they have some sort of a combo attack
Also I thought that Pains other bodies will have the eyes and the pins…but now they turn out to have the same color hair too.
Or are they all related????? Maybe 6 brothers who offered their bodies to their God Pain??????
The Rinnegan shoots lasers.
Seriously.
I'm glad Jiraya is going full out with some badass frogs, it's about time, although I'm more interested in what the connection between Obito and Itachi is.
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