If it's MS, then it would put the interpretation of kakashi's whole conversation with itachi up in the air, wouldn't it?
For example:
Kakashi: <lists flaws with MS>
Itachi: How perceptive of you, I'm impressed.
Kakashi: Itachi....how bad has your eyesight gotten?
Itachi: Kakashi....you couldn't have..... (obtained MS OR realized I'm going blind)
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
maybe they look different because of the way the obtained it
itachi killed everyone he "loved" etc.
and...well, i can't believe kakashi did the same....
and does kakashi really has to focus for like 30 minutes to get the mangekyo?
or maybe it has to do something with the jutsus someone can use.... since Kakashi is good at using nin-jutsu (if i remember correctly, kakashi trained his speed at forming seals) he might got the "nin-jutsu" version of the sharingan, while itachi has got the gen-jutsu version ^^
edit: btw sasori is cool... he even dies in such a cool way... i liked the way he stopped speaking :/ like a malfunctioning robot
i m so sad that he died.. since he was/is one of the coolest characters i ve seen in animes so far :/
the background music after his death was nice too :P
but i have a question.... what are these drawnings on the ground? looks like a summoning circle, but what did chiyo summon? dont tell me it was the father / mother puppet again
Last edited by KrayZ33; Fri, 08-31-2007 at 04:20 PM.
If you look at the differences, It does seem like maybe Kakashi's MS isn't fully developed yet or something.
It looks like the design can still spin and slowly morph into Itachi's if you get what I mean. (for example, when Sasuke developed his 3rd toma, the design spun and the 3rd toma formed in.)
Or I could simply be wrong and everyone's MS is different.
@Krazy, I'd say Kakashi does have to focus for some time... Because he doesn't have Uchiha blood and he has really low chakra. Just an assumption though.
One thing that's more obvious from the pics is that Kakashi's eyes definitely look less stressed compared to Itachi's. Itachi's looks like his eye's just gonna crack. But that might just be from the degree of use each person's had. Kakashi's new, or 2yrs max, whereas Itachi's had his for 10+ years. I like the genjutsu/ninjutsu explanation. Just have to wait for an explanation on Itachi's black flame technique now. You need Mangekyo Sharingan for that jutsu, and it's certainly now genjutsu.
Ahh, finally I'm vindicated! I remember saying that I think Kakashi had obtained the MS back when he spoke to "meat clone" Itachi, but I think I was the only one arguing that point. Man, it feels so good to be right.
Anyway, back on topic. I think we defintely need to know how Kakashi has obtained his MS, and why it looks the way it does. It could be that different people have different kinds of MS. It sounds more reasonable than say Kakashi having an underdeveloped MS, since he shouldn't be able to use it in battle unless it is fully activated.
As for the lack of Chakra, we know that Kakashi is able to release his internal gates. I think if Kakashi was really in a desperate fix, he would release his gates to get a massive chakra boost and instantly use his MS. Of course the downside is he could die/get really badly injured. At any rate, if he needs extra chakra in a fight he could open at least a couple of gates.
Thanks for those pics Penner.
Hmm, now that I see them together, they're clearly different shapes.
Which makes it odd that everyone else still seems to be insisting that Kakashi's is the Mangekyou.
I mean, looking at it I don't think thats the case. Unless the animators just fucked up drawing it this time.
So if Kakashi has found a new upgrade to the Sharingan that doesn't require killing your friend, then Sasuke has something he could learn now too.
I can't imagine that the appearance of MSharingan would vary like that between users. The normal sharingan looks the same on everyone so it's fair to assume any more powerful versions would as well. I think it's very possible Kakashi has found/created a completely different kind of Sharingan.
As for obtaining the MSharingan, i've always found it a bit odd that people take what Itatchi said to heart. The way i saw it was that not only was he provoking his brother to come after him someday, but also trying to torment him by making him believe the only way he could ever gain enough strength to defeat him was to become him. Could it be true? Sure anything could, but all we have backing it up are some cruel words from itatchi who very possibly could have had ulterior motives in saying it. It's not as if it was read from some secret scroll of the Uchiha clan, so there is no really solid reason to believe that is the only way of obtaining it or that him killing his best friend had anything at all to do with it. He said he killed his entire clan just to see what he was capable of, maybe killing his best friend was just the first thing he tried before seeing if he could kill off his family.
or perhaps the way the Mangekyou Sharingan manifests in people depends on the way they first obtain it? (ie. killing their best friend, or whatever Kakashi has discovered)
still, that's saying that Kakashi actually has the Mangekyou Sharingan, and not some other kind of upgrade to it. Then again, the conversation with him and Itachi's clone...
Kakashi's Sharingan has always been the biggest "where the fuck did that come from?" question mark of the series for me. And now it's even more so.
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
When i first saw Kakashi's new sharingan i didn't even think it was the MS because it looked different so i immediately thought "oooh a 3rd sharingan type!", it was only some time afterwards i started thinking maybe it just looks different because its not an Uchiha using it or the way he managed to unlock/aquire it..
I WANT it to be a 3rd new kind of sharingan but tbh its more likely its the Mangekyo just with a bit different look to it...still, i'll keep hoping its some new fancy version ^^
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Edit
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ooh just tought, maybe it's MS but a less powerful version of it? it might vary in looks depending on how powerful it is, since Kakashi doesnt have the blood of an Uchiha it might be (slightly?) weaker than an actual Uchihas MS and thus look a bit different...thoughts?
Last edited by Penner; Sat, 09-01-2007 at 06:43 AM.
______________________________________
"Always be yourself... unless you suck."
Well I don't clearly remember it, but isn't Kakashis sharingan the one Itachi had before he obtained Mangekiou?
i have no clue what you're talking about, but.. no.Originally Posted by Rasiel
Maybe his non-sharingan blood had some effect on his sharingan. Who knows, since it's a bloodline limited thing, it could have easily changed to it's new owner. An evolution as you might, we alle know that at some point in history, the Sharingan was a new evolution of the Byakugan. And in other circumstances, things might adapt themselves.
Maybe it's a small evolution from the sharingan that would only be possible in other bodies. Because the needs of the sharingan couldn't be fulfilled in a non-sharingan body it adapted itself in a new enviroment. And that could explain the difference in sharingan.
maybe a bit far fetched
Hakke Rokujūyon Shō!
my only question is, if it is MS, how the heck would it help him in a long range battle? to use MS you need to look straight to the eyes, and its pretty hard to do in long range, so i would say its a different kind of sharingang that would help kakashi in this case...
that's only to use its genjutsu. i'm pretty sure Itachi didnt look into Jiraiya's eyes when he used amaterasu on his frog wall.
So it looks different than MS, was probably obtained differently than MS, and might have totally different powers than MS...
...wouldn't all that make it NOT MS?
"Hey, I have this completely different power, but I think I'll call it the same thing as that other power that other guy has, just to start arguments!"
Perhaps it is just different like how people have different eye color.. I believe Sasuke's sharingan is slightly different then Itachi's... and now Kakashi's MS is different the Itachi's..
on the episode itself...
I'm still confused as to the part where Chiyo remarks that 'Sasori left himself open'... implying that he wanted to die after all, despite his words to the contrary. Was she referring to when he jumped back to attack Sakura and wound up ensared in the puppet's immobilization jutsu (the pattern on the floor) and then was stabbed? I thought that was a bit unnecessary as well, but if he did that knowing it'd be his downfall, it's more than just leaving himself open... it's downright suicidal...
I suppose, as he said himself, that somehow he was still part human and that part of him desired to die... A very strange character. I liked him more before they included this possibility of him letting himself get beaten, as I think it is a sudden contradiction to everything he stood for right up until that moment, and it's hardly reconcilable with everything else he does.
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
this raised an eyebrow with me as well. seems like the writers were trying too hard with this episode. overall id say the content of the ep was really bad, but the progression in it more than made up for it.
I agree.
It's like "okay, now that this really cool badguy is dead, right before we move on, we're gonna say something thats gonna make him seem really cliche"
Not to mention he had no idea what happened until he saw his mom and pa puppets beside him. He says "wh-what?" Maybe granny is just trying to comfort herself since she did kill her grandson. She's just trying to play it off as suicide!
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