PC Problem...

[Buffalobiian]

I've bought a GTX670 so I suppose I could try the same thing in my situation too.

Basically I've been having a lot of BSODs for a while now with various error codes but all to do with ntoskrnl.exe (which doesn't actually diagnose the problem). I can reproduce a BSOD every single time by simultaneously:

1) transferring a Diablo 3 folder from HDD1 to HDD2
2) transferring all the program files from HDD3 to HDD4
3) playing music while I do so.

I'm not sure which or if all of the above are necessary, but it's never been able to complete the entire lot successfully. It's just what I'm doing to test for stability anyway since this can reliably tick it off while memtests and intelburntests don't pick up anything. Prime might do it eventually but that will take too long.

I've used various system images and even an old system HDD that still had my C:\ from my pre-ssd days, and they all give the same errors. I'm fairly certain that it's my mobo/cpu/ram that's causing it, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to put in my gfx card and replace the HD5870 while I'm at it.

I didn't really want to replace that combo until the end of the year, but if it comes down to it.. I'm fairly happy to do so. I'd be looking at an i5-4670, maybe an Asrock Z87 Extreme4.. haven't sorted out the ram yet, but probably something 1866MHz. I think a slim profile Noctua CPU cooler would be the most accessible one for my purposes. Promeltech and Thermalright stuff are rather hard to find.

Let us know what you find Ani. You suggest that you've got a high suspicion that it's the graphics card, but you can't really confirm that until you've replaced it.

[shinta|hikari]

My laptop keeps getting BSOD when I leave it alone for a while and it goes into standby. I also noticed that the memory consumption is abnormally high, (around 80% all the time). It once crashed because I ran too many programs all at once (but still not enough to consume the laptop memory spec wise). Does anyone have an idea how to fix this?

[Buffalobiian]

What does the log say? You can check it out with two programs:

1) Bluescreenview - quick view of dump files to see what the offending process is
2) windbg - windows debug with more details, but involves selecting it from a general Windows SDK download

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As for my end, I've confirmed that the PC crashes without the graphics card and also without the ATI card. The Asus GTX670 that I've replaced it with is sexy. And quiet. Soooo quiet. Just what I wanted.

Time to buy parts now.

[Kraco]

Encouraged by Ani and Bill trying to solve their problems, I gutted my PC and now it's running with the heart outside of the body. The problem is an irregular noise I keep hearing... Well, irregularly. Some kind of rattling fan noise most probably, but hard to track down. Of late I've been suspecting it's the PSU. Googling revealed to me my PSU model, while otherwise using high quality components, possesses a poor fan and countless people have sent their units back to have the fan replaced. Naturally when I tried to run the PSU totally separately, just having some extra 12cm fan connected to it to make it run, I didn't hear anything weird. Maybe it won't appear until the PSU is burdened enough. Now I can stick my head between the PSU and the rest of the computer if needed.

The lousy news for me is that since OCZ went bankrupt a while ago, I'm far from sure the store will do anything at all to help me, despite plenty of warranty technically left. They might just tell me "tough luck", and that's it. After all, the store most likely couldn't send the PSU anywhere for repairs if they took it off my hands. But I guess I will see how it turns out. First I want to verify the PSU is the culprit, of course.

My laptop keeps getting BSOD when I leave it alone for a while and it goes into standby. I also noticed that the memory consumption is abnormally high, (around 80% all the time). It once crashed because I ran too many programs all at once (but still not enough to consume the laptop memory spec wise). Does anyone have an idea how to fix this?

What's eating the memory? How much is the total memory installed and how much is just cached? If your laptop only has 4GB of memory, most of it might seem used due to Windows actively caching stuff if any memory happens to be free. Memory is freed from cached automatically if you launch a new program needing memory. If your virtual memory is set too low or even disabled, it will cause crashing very efficiently.

There have been lots of different kinds of problems with laptop standby and hibernation modes over the years. Naturally lots of them are caused by not having enough free space on C or other such mundane reasons. From what I've read, different device drivers have also caused those problems (power to the onboard device is cut during standby, but it won't successfully wake up when exiting standby). But any such problems should appear easily when googling.

If there's aberrant application running wild and eating memory and CPU time, it would be no wonder if it didn't like to be set to standby. Stare at your task manager for a while.

[Animeniax]

I'm not sure which or if all of the above are necessary, but it's never been able to complete the entire lot successfully. It's just what I'm doing to test for stability anyway since this can reliably tick it off while memtests and intelburntests don't pick up anything. Prime might do it eventually but that will take too long.

So it only BSODs when running all of those operations at the same time? Seems like a RAM issue to me. Do you have replacement RAM available to swap out? Buying new RAM would still be future proof, though I'm out of the loop on new technologies, you should be able to use DDR3 for another few years.

Let us know what you find Ani. You suggest that you've got a high suspicion that it's the graphics card, but you can't really confirm that until you've replaced it.

It's not a suspicion, I took the 770GTX from my work gaming PC home for the spring break (I wanted to run BF4 on high settings instead of medium with the 6970) and the home gaming PC has been rock solid for the past 4 days, with all the previous issues I mentioned apparently resolved. It's expensive having to buy parts for two PCs, but worth it.

@Kraco: you'll probably have to run the system in place (in the case in this situation) to see what's causing the noise. It could be vibration from the PSU contacting the case, or a cable rubbing a fan. OCZ products don't have the best reputation for reliability, just pushing the envelope for performance.

[Kraco]

@Kraco: you'll probably have to run the system in place (in the case in this situation) to see what's causing the noise. It could be vibration from the PSU contacting the case, or a cable rubbing a fan. OCZ products don't have the best reputation for reliability, just pushing the envelope for performance.

Yeah. I have tried a few times to locate the source by simply opening the case and even pressing some parts of the system to see if it would reduce the noise, if it's from vibration and resonance, but not with much luck. It's incredibly hard to pinpoint the source. It's kind of annoying since it just starts suddenly one day, perhaps lasts until I turn off the computer, then next day the PC might be okay once again. A week may go by without the rattling, but then it's suddenly back, sometimes for days. The noise has been gone for a month once or twice.

I was hoping having the PSU outside of the case would allow me to know for sure. But like you said, if it's resonance related after all, then I'm naturally out of luck.

[darkshadow]

Anyone who's getting BSODs, start using windbg, it's fucking king.

[Animeniax]

Yeah. I have tried a few times to locate the source by simply opening the case and even pressing some parts of the system to see if it would reduce the noise, if it's from vibration and resonance, but not with much luck. It's incredibly hard to pinpoint the source. It's kind of annoying since it just starts suddenly one day, perhaps lasts until I turn off the computer, then next day the PC might be okay once again. A week may go by without the rattling, but then it's suddenly back, sometimes for days. The noise has been gone for a month once or twice.

I was hoping having the PSU outside of the case would allow me to know for sure. But like you said, if it's resonance related after all, then I'm naturally out of luck.

Sorry sometimes it's the simple things that people forget to check, like with my videocard causing BSODs (I say it's simple because in retrospect, it's a hacked card with BIOS flash and utility to get it to run correctly, which can cause instability). Have you tried using compressed air to blow the PSU out? Also since you probably won't get warranty support, consider opening the PSU and replacing the fan.

In addition to what ds said, if you have issues installing windbg, check http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2717426 which you think wouldn't apply if you are only installing the debug tools, but somehow it does.

[Kraco]

Have you tried using compressed air to blow the PSU out? Also since you probably won't get warranty support, consider opening the PSU and replacing the fan.

It has never had overly much dust, maybe due to the case's filter, but yeah, I've done that occasionally, now more thoroughly since I took it entirely out of the case.

Interestingly enough I also read that over here the retailer is responsible for the warranty of the product (if such was announced during purchase like it usually is) even if the importer/manufacturer goes bankrupt. So, I have that covered, one way or another, if I can verify it's indeed the PSU's fan. Otherwise I would replace the fan. I've done that in that past with one or two PSUs, and it's usually a walk in the park.

[Animeniax]

It has never had overly much dust, maybe due to the case's filter, but yeah, I've done that occasionally, now more thoroughly since I took it entirely out of the case.

Interestingly enough I also read that over here the retailer is responsible for the warranty of the product (if such was announced during purchase like it usually is) even if the importer/manufacturer goes bankrupt. So, I have that covered, one way or another, if I can verify it's indeed the PSU's fan. Otherwise I would replace the fan. I've done that in that past with one or two PSUs, and it's usually a walk in the park.

That's a peculiar warranty policy, to have the retailer honor it versus the manufacturer. I kinda like the idea, but from your experience is it better or worse for getting quick and reliable service? I tend to order parts online so I prefer manufacturer warranty.

[Kraco]

That's a peculiar warranty policy, to have the retailer honor it versus the manufacturer. I kinda like the idea, but from your experience is it better or worse for getting quick and reliable service? I tend to order parts online so I prefer manufacturer warranty.

I guess it depends. I liked using the direct manufacturer warranty a lot when my TV's panel started to malfunction. I needed to do nothing but agree on a time with the people and they fetched the TV from my home, then agree on a time again and they brought it back fixed. The exact same thing happened with my scanner/inkjet. A lot more convenient that carrying the thing to the store and back, and possibly faster. However, when I lost a HDD years ago, I went to the shop I'd bought it from. They gave me a replacement immediately, no questions asked (or actually they didn't have anymore one so small, so I paid an unsignificant amount to get a bigger model).

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if you have got both alternatives, but in cases like this when the manufacturer is no more, the customer won't end up as the sole loser.

[Animeniax]

When my motherboard went wonky I didn't like having to ship it to Asus for service. They sent it back 2 weeks later saying it was fine, though some of the pins on the CPU socket were bent (I sent it that way) so I wonder how much testing was actually done. I had to pay shipping and was without the PC for 2 weeks. In other cases I've had manufacturers just send me a new product (Logitech, Lasko) with minimum guarantee that I destroy the previous non-functioning item. In the US I don't think we have many retailers who honor/service the warranty on behalf of manufacturers.

[Buffalobiian]

So it only BSODs when running all of those operations at the same time? Seems like a RAM issue to me. Do you have replacement RAM available to swap out? Buying new RAM would still be future proof, though I'm out of the loop on new technologies, you should be able to use DDR3 for another few years.

I tested a few more things today.

File copying x2 without music crashes
File copying from HDD1 to 2 crashes (took a while)
File copying from HDD 3 to 4 crashes (took 1 minute or so)

Conclusion: seems to be independent of particular HDDs.

Interesting error and resolution process regarding Windows SDK. I tried installing that this morning and it gave me that error. I didn't think too hard about it though. Given the state my computer was in I thought it was just shitting itself again.

I've been researching today about new parts, and it seems Haswell really isn't that great a generation to buy from, but I don't have the leisure to just wait around. Looks like I might get a Xeon E3 1230v3.

[Edort4]

I had lots of problems both with BSOD and cracky sound issues in my old rig due to HDDs and SATA. Dunno why but one HDD would start making cranky noises and losing efficency (even getting some BSOD) until I changed its sata port. This change would work well for a random time until it happened again and had to change back to previous port. I think the hdd was so old and used that the sata conection was somehow worn out and started failing.

Also @Buff you should run memtest RAM access to "rare" parts while file transfer maybe you have some issue with that. Also mobo drivers should be checked and all the cables revised. 90% of my old rigs issues came from SATA cables becoming loose.

[Kraco]

At least I was now able to verify that two other noises come from the PSU when the video card eats just a bit more power. Even turning on hardware acceleration in Firefox is enough to make the PSU whine and produce clicking sounds whenever I scroll a web page. During something like launching a game goes without saying, but it's not so annoying during gaming as I'm wearing headphones anyway and the video card itself is making more noise to mask it. But it's very annoying when simply surfing the net, which is why I can't keep the hw accel on, resulting in jerky scrolling.

However, I've read the manufacturers aren't very interested in doing anything about such problems, blaming instead an unlucky combination of a PSU+video card+mobo. Of course in my case the manufacturer is no more, so it would be up to the store. Plus this isn't actually the same noise I initially wanted to verify and still haven't encountered with the case open and the PSU outside for two days now. I guess I'll be trying my patience a little bit longer until deciding whether to try my luck with the shop.

[Ryllharu]

I'm perched on the edge of my serviceable and affordable Ikea couch, typing away on my laptop with my desktop in the other room. A cup of lukewarm tea on one side of the coffee table and a serviceable and affordable bottle of bourbon on the other. The ceiling fan spins slowly, making a faint creaking noise every so often. The sun has come up, leaving the sky an eerie, toxic yellow. It's not warm enough to be comfortable, not cold enough to put on socks. The distant hum and thunks of the aging refrigerator is a grating distraction. The stale smell of yesterday's evening meal lingers faintly in the room, as it always does until I cook something else.

There's an ancient CRT sitting on the desk, with my keyboard pressed right up to the edge, poking over just enough to make typing uncomfortable. I'm booted up into Windows 8.1 Safe Mode (achieved with difficulty). It's been four days since my old video card choked on dust and burned out its circuitry. Two days since a replacement video card arrived. Two long days. Too-busy days. Explorer indicates that there's another 2 hours to move all my files on to an external.

The new video card purrs pleasantly like a cat sunning itself on a linoleum floor. Not at all like the throaty whine of the old card working through its paces, its fan steadily gaining dust without my knowledge. But the part that kills me inside is the monitor going to sleep moments after windows boots. I don't understand. First comes the rage at the monitor. That sleek poseur used to be frequently consumed by ennui, thinking it knew better than my computer when a signal was being outputted. After I beat it into submission, I forgot about the issue. I got careless.

Right before I was about to tug the computer over to my television to I get the bright idea that I have not one, but two ancient CRT monitors in the basement for just this kind of shindig. I tug the plug out of the apathetic LCD and press it smoothly into the back of the old workhorse, placed uncomfortably on the floor. A VGA-DVI adapter and I'm back in business. Or so I think.

The computer still fails to wake the monitor after booting. I struggle, but manage to coax the aging beast into Safe Mode. I install the video card drivers and go for a reboot. Back in business...but my hopes filled only to be dashed moments later. The monitor, even the dependable CRT, still goes comatose like a junkie that got a bad batch.

I struggle to get the old beast into the BIOS. I try each of the display adapter settings, except Onboard which is screwed shut. No dice. I drop back into Safe Mode and load up the brower. I test the LCD again, figuring the problem ain't it, its some part of the corrupted OS. I leave it in Safe Mode and swap the cables, eager to get off the floor. Again, the smart-mouthed punk still thinks it knows better. Piece of trash ain't worth the plastic its made out of. I push the CRT on the desk and plug the cables back in. Always nice to have a reliable friend in trying circumstances, there for you when it really counts.

Searches end in vain, results from 2009 or calls to update my drivers. Hope wells with reports of power settings, only to realize they're talking about it going to sleep after 15 minutes. What a bunch of worthless shitheads, I muse. I stumble upon vaguely worded instructions about disabling a phantom monitor. Looks promising. Same symptoms, hopes rise again. I manage to find the keystroke combination (it's only a single button on a laptop) and try for the switch. A prompt comes up, telling me my computer isn't set up for multiple monitors. Hell.

I go for the last resort. Windows Refresh. I cozy up, spirits lifted that it identified missing files. Corrupted dll maybe? I set it off, and requests a form of media to restore the missing files. I pull out the disk, a smile of relief just starting to form on my face. This Disk Isn't Valid, the screen reads. Of course it is, I shout inside my head. It's a legal copy...of Windows 8, not 8.1. No way out, time to back up my files and fry the whole thing.

So I sit here with a barely warm cup of tea, wondering if I should even bother to restore the seven year old beast. The motherboard and Window 8 get together like a couple at marriage counseling, arguing whether or not they should even accept the USB 3.0 card. They agree to have it live apart from either of them, unless the motherboard got back with her old flame Windows Vista, the restore partition.

I'm too impatient to build a new PC from components. I'm a busy guy, with lots of responsibilities and no where near enough time on my hands to get to them all. A lot of projects need my personal attention, and this is just the latest one. At the same time, I have more important things to spend the money on instead of buying a lithe and sexy pre-built model.

I hang my head in my hands and click, "Submit Reply."

[Buffalobiian]

I feel your pain. My brother has been having a similar problem of late. It's an nvidia card, and it's very inconsistent.

Is Windows Refresh something like System Restore, or is it closer to a proper image backup/recovery thing? If so, you could try finding a copy of Windows 8.1 online and just recover Windows using that.

[Kraco]

I can't see why and how your Windows would have corrupted in such a manner. It sounds more like corrupted video card drivers installation or the driver version doesn't like your particular video card. If I were you, I'd try to uninstall completely the current driver and try perhaps an older version. Or are you still running the same video card driver installation you had with the fried, old video card? In that case a newer version.

Of course there's always the possibility your new video card is broken to begin with, although if it does stay on in the safe mode, I wonder about that.

[Buffalobiian]

Given the way that Ryll's shaking his head, I got the idea that he's completely worked himself into some hole now that won't allow him to recover (nil backups that are independent of OS) nor do a fresh install (hardware conflicts that require various different versions of Windows to work).

[Ryllharu]

Windows 8 has lost dll's on me when I've swapped hardware before. It is weird, but it happens. Pretty sure it comes from the hard reboots when it is using one. Usually, its painless since the windows restore/system recovery/refresh in Windows 8 is remarkably good at what it does.

It is my fault for not having a Windows 8.1 recovery disc. That said, Service Packs on previous versions of windows are usually still compatible at the low level kind of system files that are having problems. Windows 8.1 should really be considered Windows 9. I didn't realize how different they are until you get into shit like this.

The two OSs are not compatible. Even Microsoft's hardware compatibility sites list different components as working with 8.1.

Age of my machine is definitely a factor here, limiting a lot of my options.