Now that I recall when Kyuubi told Sasuke that his chakra or whatever was more sinister than his own, that really ticked me off. I hated how much Kishimoto overpowered the Sharingan, and tries to add so much depth to it now. The Sharingan branched off the Byakugan, but it just completely overwhelms it. It's such a huge deus ex machina plot device now, that it's kinda annoying.
I wouldn't make a big deal about the sharingan as a decendant of byakugan. For one thing, Kakashi mentioned it out of passing, as a myth. Even if its true, it would be a trait that likely evolved very gradually throughout the history of the clan.
And let's not forget one key factor in evolution, if newer genetic mutations end up remaining in the gene pool, then they must provide some sort of superior adaptation for the creature to its environment.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
Yeah I agree, evolution = improvement. Since Sharingan was an evolution from Byakugan, it should be stronger than it for sure. I just wish that the manga would go into deeper depth on Byakugan and let its user develop do-jutsu with it.Originally Posted by AssertnFailure
I wouldn't make a big deal about the sharingan as a decendant of byakugan. For one thing, Kakashi mentioned it out of passing, as a myth. Even if its true, it would be a trait that likely evolved very gradually throughout the history of the clan.
And let's not forget one key factor in evolution, if newer genetic mutations end up remaining in the gene pool, then they must provide some sort of superior adaptation for the creature to its environment.
Anyway, although I am almost positively convinced that Tobi is not Obito, I am taking a different direction to this approach. As you guys have said that Tobi is Madara, I can see that possibility but what if Tobi turned out to be Itachi's friend that he claimed to have killed long ago? Suisui? (spelling again?) You might think that guy came out of nowhere randomly but they did say that Itachi looked up to him (Tobi commanding Itachi at the moment) and they did say that he was very strong if I can recall. And furthermore, he seems to fit the age gap more appropirately than Madara since Madara is suppose to be an existence even Kyuubi knows about/ some past affiliation with the 1st hokage maybe? as someone hinted out earlier. And it makes alot more sense for him to hide under a mask because Suisui was suppose to be killed by Itachi (but my theory is that he faked his death) And maybe Tobi was talking about acquiring Madara's power somehow? Not too sure...my theory is unlikely so i'll stop talking about it for now
Can someone get that last picture of Obito being crushed under a rock? I want to see which eye was crushed and compare it to Tobi's eyehole. I want to eliminate this possibility if I can..because it seems absurd that Kakashi's old weak friend would rule the strongest organization and not return to his village and friends when he had no reason not to.
Well, obviously it wasn't Tobi's left eye that was crushed, because that's the eye he gave to Kakashi.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
I don't think it's too far fetched for Tobi to still be Obito, though I agree that it would be pretty lame for him to be the ultimate villain without a damn good reason.
Obito was killed on a mission in the grass country, and I think it'd be pretty safe to assume that Zetsu is from the grass country. It's possible that Zetsu rescued Tobi from underneath the rock which would draw a connection between Obito, Akatsuki, and Zetsu. Don't forget that Zetsu was the one who "brought" Tobi in to replace Sasori, furthering a possible connection between them. Who knows why he would go to this sorta length to hide himself as the true leader.
Corn chips are no place for a mighty warrior!
Uchilia Madara, i will presume that he is not tobi..... reasons that will bring me to this conclusion is that 364 only shows one sharigan in his eyes... and when he quote the power of uchilia madara doesn't bring to the account that he is him.... if that was tru then he would of join the A-group soon as they started because if Madara was alive he would’ve been pretty old, since the nine tails knew of him.... only way for the nine tails to have knowledge of him is when the nine tails didn't have a host... naruto - ninetails = a span of over 15 years ago when the nine tails didn't have a host...... and who knew when they first met? but reasons say that they met when the nine-tails roam the world...I still say it is a more high possibility tobi is obito because they assume that obito had died when kakashi and rin fled the scene... but tobi was alive in the enemies hideout when they left... usually hunter nins would've look for his body so that the secret of Sharingan and its ability wouldn't fall in to the wrong hands. But there is no grave? so tobi could be obito....it's more relevant then tobi being Madara....
I can't wait for the next chapter now. Even though Sharingan is ridiculously over-powered, or perhaps because of that reason, I can't help but feel very excited about another user of this bloodline. It's difficult to feel very threatened by new villains like Kabutoro what with the prospect of the once considered all-powerful Pein being set loose on Naruto, our nearly forgotten main character, and the idea of yet another Uchiha powerhouse.
It's great that every villain who has at one time or another seemed to be the ultimate villain continues to get outshined by a newer threat. Orochimaru seemed invincible until Itachi showed up....who seemed incredible until Akatsuki revealed that there were at least seven other supposed "equals" amongst them, led by the all powerful Pein.....who is now dwarfed in power by the mysterious Tobi. At least from our perspective. I figure any of these three could still prove to be the best; Itachi, for example, doesn't seem to be the type to follow orders without having a personal goal in mind, and we know nothing of Pein or Tobi besides their position in Akatsuki (which may change again within a few chapters).
Actually I'm now very certain that when Tobi refers to Sharingan's true power, he's referring to the ability to suppress and control bijuu.
It was never said that the bijuu extraction process with the eye statue included the ability to control the bijuus. Neither was it ever explicity stated or implied that each Akatsuki member was meant to become the next jinchuriki nor did any of them ever state the specific expectation of becoming a jinchuriki.
In one chapter, Pein revealed that Akatsuki's plan was to unleash the tailed demons on the world, just so that they could save villages from them, and gain money and power. It had something to do with destroying all other ninja villages, so that every village would need to request Akatsuki for help in war and missions. And then something lame about saving the world. Of course, it would be much easier to stop the tailed deomns with the Sharingan's ability to suppress them.
I hope that this plan is just a front, and that the true plan of Akatsuki is less lame.
Yes I remember the goal Pein marked as Akatsuki's ultimate objective. With the going assumption that controlling (ninja) economy is a lame supervillain goal, I would have to believe that Pein's explanation is a front what with all new revelations in the storyline including: the fact that the Akatsuki leader is not Pein (unbeknowest to all Akatsuki except the female), but someone above, who is 1. Tobi (perceived by his peers to be the weakest Akatsuki) and 2. a Sharingan user aiming to control or become the ultimate Sharingan user outside of Madara (given they are not the same person). So yeah, as ridiculous as that explanation sounded at the time Pein said it, it has to seem even more insignificant now. All this (kind of) deception and risk for the sake of economic dictatorship is absurd.
And for suppressing bijuus (and their chakra) to be the extent of Sharingan's true power would be dumb if you cant make a bijuu do what you want. In fact we just saw Sasuke's control Manda which could be seen as a foreshadowing of Sharingan's true power.
There would be absolutely no reason for Tobi to be deceiving everyone unless there was an ulterior motive. My question is: Why did he bother taking Sasori's spot in the first place, just to be "killed off" by Deidara later on?
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
It was probably never planned for him to die, he probably had no choice because as far as the rest of them are concerned he shouldn't have survived Deidara's final blast. There's no way they would have foreseen Deidara fighting Sasuke and blowing himself up.
I think I know precisely what I mean
when I say it's a schpadoinkle day
What I personally don't get is why Tobi, being the apparent leader of akatsuki, pose as some dim-witted goofy loser when he's around the rest of the organization? What's the point of that whole charade if he's the leader anyway?
The only thing I can think of is that he wanted to scrutinize one or more of the members of Akatsuki without revealing himself to be the leader. Maybe he wanted to ensure their faithful allegiance, or perhaps he was afraid some of the members would attempt to overthrow Pein. More likely, I think he wanted more time to closely watch Itachi - and filling Sasori's empty place seemed a bit closer than watching from the shadows.
Why is it so hard to believe that Tobi is using Akatsuki for his own goal? If his actions and words in the last chapter did not scream ulterior motive, then I must be looking into this way to deeply.
And there is information to be gained from within the ranks as well as what's gained from being the leader of the ranks.
im not sure if its even been confirmed that tobi is the leader but so many people keep talking as if he is. You may be right bout some of it but it is all speculation right now. All we know for sure is that tobi has sharingan, and wears a mask w\ only one eye hole which makes his being obito possible but as others have pointed out that would be kinda lame to bring a charactor like that back into the story as a villain. the next few chapters im sure will help to settle alot of this speculation floating around
Obito could reappear as a villain for many non-lame reasons. He might have lost part of his memory (being nearly killed by a boulder which crushed half of his face could have caused amnesia). He also might have pledged a debt to whoever saved him. Or, he may have another reason for aligning himself to Akatsuki. There is a possibility that he is a spy working for another group - and their goal may be the destruction of Akatsuki, which would make him something of a secret hero.
As you say, it's all speculation. Let's see where Kishimoto-san takes this.
what if the reason the nine-tail knows madara is that he is the one who sicked him on konoha to destroy his bloodline and he just had itachi do it later....
since everyones so intent on suggesting obito is connected to this some how, lets throw around the idea that obito actually died under that big ass boulder, and after kakashi and his team hightailed it out of there, another random ninja came around and ripped obitos other eye out?
-_-
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