Naruto Chapter 364

[mage]

The three lines were basically an increasing definition of tobi's power. Starting with the sharingan and ending with the legacy. He can't be anyone else other than Uchiha Madara. Especially if he's the ultimate villain

I have no clue what you're talking about here. Three lines? Increasing definition? Legacy? How do you come to the conclusion that he is Madara from these things?

[Assertn]

Ugh.....I can never get away without having to write things bluntly....

Three lines:
1) The Sharingans true power...
2) My power...
3) Uchiha Madara's power...

Increasing definition:
Each line encompasses a greater representation of power.

Legacy:
As in the name of a person precedes them. This is especially true with Tobi, whom appears to be a nobody, contrasted to the name Uchiha Madara, who's name is recognized even by Kyubi.

[mage]

So you have come to the conclusion he is Madara based on these things? It doesn't seem to be a very logical conclusion to me. He says "My power.. Uchiha Madara's power.." Like I said, if he calls it "His power," then says Madara's name, it would not make sense for him to be Madara. Tobi is not Madara.

[Assertn]

So you have come to the conclusion he is Madara based on these things? It doesn't seem to be a very logical conclusion to me. He says "My power.. Uchiha Madara's power.." Like I said, if he calls it "His power," then says Madara's name, it would not make sense for him to be Madara. Tobi is not Madara.

So because he also says "The sharingan's power," he is also not referring to himself? Doesn't seem to be a very logical conclusion to me.

[Splash!]

Yeah, I too am unsure as to where people are drawing conclusions from that Tobi is Uchiha Madara. I am pretty sure that all that line refers to is the power of the Sharingan. Just reinforcing the same idea by using different words. Even Sasuke was referred to as having the same sinister chakra as Uchiha Madara by the 9-tails.
As mage has already pointed out several times, the 2nd line wouldn't be in there if Tobi was talking about himself in the 3rd person. And even if the 2nd line wasn't there, I still wouldn't be to hasty to jump to the conclusion that Tobi is Madara.

My Theory:
It could be that some other mastermind is simply making use of Obito's half wrecked body and the lone sharingan eyeball that somehow remained undamaged inside his socket for their own purposes. I wouldn't put it past someone. Orochimaru tried to do the same thing. Maybe this host didnt care all too much about who it was or how badly damaged the body was, so long as it had a working Sharingan (Hunter nins aren't probably doing their job right). If someone who knew about the Sharingan's power happened to salvage his dead body from beneath the rocks and found that the lone eyeball had been preserved, I don't see why they wouldn't want to keep the body for themselves. They could have later fixed it up and possessed it.

I think Tobi's physical body is indeed that of Obito's. But Obito never seemed to have the right personality or the aspirations to be the big villain behind it all. Somebody 'pulled an Orochimaru' on him.

[Kensee]

Yeah, I too am unsure as to where people are drawing conclusions from that Tobi is Uchiha Madara. I am pretty sure that all that line refers to is the power of the Sharingan. Just reinforcing the same idea by using different words. Even Sasuke was referred to as having the same sinister chakra as Uchiha Madara by the 9-tails.
As mage has already pointed out several times, the 2nd line wouldn't be in there if Tobi was talking about himself in the 3rd person. And even if the 2nd line wasn't there, I still wouldn't be to hasty to jump to the conclusion that Tobi is Madara.

My Theory:
It could be that some other mastermind is simply making use of Obito's half wrecked body and the lone sharingan eyeball that somehow remained undamaged inside his socket for their own purposes. I wouldn't put it past someone. Orochimaru tried to do the same thing. Maybe this host didnt care all too much about who it was or how badly damaged the body was, so long as it had a working Sharingan (Hunter nins aren't probably doing their job right). If someone who knew about the Sharingan's power happened to salvage his dead body from beneath the rocks and found that the lone eyeball had been preserved, I don't see why they wouldn't want to keep the body for themselves. They could have later fixed it up and possessed it.

I think Tobi's physical body is indeed that of Obito's. But Obito never seemed to have the right personality or the aspirations to be the big villain behind it all. Somebody 'pulled an Orochimaru' on him.

Yeah I would agree with you on a lot of your points made here...

I just don't think Tobi/Mastermind is Obito because even though Obito was a Uchiha, he was more like the "Nartuo" of the old group, where Kakashi was more like the "Sauske." I just don't think Kish would make a twist like that, it would just kinda be pulling the whole self-sacrificing and whole moral out of Obito. The same guy who said "Those who don't help their friends are worse than trash!" (or something like that). Doing a 180 on his character would be a bad move.

Now, I do think Tobi (before him reveling himself to be the leader), did act more humorous and like Obito, and he does his vision around the eye that Obito had left, but bleh ... NO =P.

Madara, we never heard from. I don't recall any part of the whole manga that reviled that Itachi did acutally kill his friend Madara. He kinda just went Sharingan crazy and obliterated his village. So Madara does seem like a likely candidate, and also he seems to be well knowledgeable about the Uchiha clan and also the Sharingin.

Tobi ftw.

[February]

You guys think that Sasuke doesnt have the Mangekyu but Orochimaro DID tell Sasuke not to use a certain technique...and Sasuke did say to Deidara that he had another trick up his sleeve...so we never know for sure..

If Uchiha Madara was still alive:

And IF Uchia Madara is still alive, I am convinced that Tobi = Madara. Because Itachi already knew of another Sharingan user was still alive (hinted in this chapter), he must have faked Madara's death. Uchiha Madara must have instructed Itachi to act like he killed him so he can pull him toward his plan. And the wording as someone said, Japanese language can refer to oneself in 3rd person often so it wouldnt be surprising

If Uchiha Madara wasnt alive:
Maybe Itachi acquired Madara's power while killing him. Then by getting to Itachi, Tobi can harness his powers. But I am almost 99% sure that Tobi is Madara because we saw the sharingan. The only two possible candidates for Tobi is Madara or Obito because we heard that everyone in the clan got killed except Sasuke by Itachi. And Obito died way earlier. Tobi does not look half his body was severely mutilated and there is no way that someone who couldnt surpass Kakashi could be strong enough to control the strongest organization in the ninja world. And its been so long. Obito has no reason not to return to his friends or village or hide from the outside world living under a mask.

But Madara does have a reason to hide and live under a mask. Why? Because he's SUPPOSE to be dead. He faked his own death and what good is faking if people realize it soon after?


The only thing that disappointed me was that the badass supervillian acted so whimpy earlier in the chapters, even though it was an act, im still sad about it

[Honoko]

I'd much rather think after Madara ran away he started this trend of passing off his eyeballs to someone else before dying. And in that way Madara's power has been handed down from person to person, similar to how Kakashi was able to gain a Sharingan from Obito. To me, that would be the only way to justify a line like, "my power.... uchiha madara's power...." because referring to yourself in 3rd person is just totally lame.

[KCMmmmm]

So....what happened to Kabutoro? He just up and vanished. Anybody else notice that the arc's newest villain has the power to disappear as if he were completely forgotten by the writer?

I think the jury is still out on who Tobi is: I think there is an equal chance of him being Obito or Madara.....or another Uchiha completely. But I hope not....I'm hoping it's Obito, personally.

[Idealistic]

Either Tobi was talking in a 3rd person, or....

Tobi could be the person who killed Madara and he took his sharingan eyes.. Or maybe just 1 eye?

Then he'll be another 1-eyed sharingan user.

Itachi vs Sasuke, Kakashi vs Tobi.

[fahoumh]

Wait, I'm confused. The way the panels are structured leaves it ambiguous, so I'll go ahead and ask: Is Pain the girl with the hair flower or the dude with all the piercings who we used to think was the leader?

The dude with the piercings is Pein, we don't know the girl's name.

Also, I think it's premature to say Tobi is Uchiha Madara....having someone's power doesn't necessarily mean they are that person. Like Yamato has Shodai Hokage's powers but he's not the same person...although he is a quasi-clone. Maybe that's a bad example.

[Death BOO Z]

.

My Theory:
It could be that some other mastermind is simply making use of Obito's half wrecked body and the lone sharingan eyeball that somehow remained undamaged inside his socket for their own purposes. I wouldn't put it past someone. Orochimaru tried to do the same thing. Maybe this host didnt care all too much about who it was or how badly damaged the body was, so long as it had a working Sharingan (Hunter nins aren't probably doing their job right). If someone who knew about the Sharingan's power happened to salvage his dead body from beneath the rocks and found that the lone eyeball had been preserved, I don't see why they wouldn't want to keep the body for themselves. They could have later fixed it up and possessed it.

I can't see that happenning, Obito had his sharingan awakened about 20 mintues prior to his death, not likely that the super villian was there by chance and did all that emergency cutting and surgery without time to prepare (unless the sharingan is like Kuripata's eyes from HxH, which keep thier changed state if dead), other option is that he was waiting for this to happen, but Obito wasn't close to awakenning his eyes at that time, and there were probably Uchihas more close to that during those days.

Tobi is Obito, I can see no other way, it's like how Gin was Nigg (HxH), Obito was too lazy to think of an alias, so he just pushed his letters around, also, if you consider the personnality (Obito always making fun and excuses, being a 'naruto'ish guy) he is quite similiar to Tobi, who has since then upgraded the humor level manytimes over.

where did we see mentionnings of Madare's name? the kyubi spoke of him while Sasuke stuck his snobbish nose inside Naruto's head, and that's it, right? I can't remember wheather he was in one of those annoying Sasuke chapters...

Juugi can apparently speak to animals, it fits his charecter archtype - the crazy going gentle noble warrior. BORING.

I really wish to see Kabutoro again, though he's off the hook, at least for a while, he's got nothing to do with the current plot, and from his point of view, it's better to let all the others kill themselves and only then start his evil (master)plans again, if he even still has any use to them.

though, it will be cool if Kabuto was really Tobi's henchman, and is now creating the 2nd genration of the akatsuki base...

edit: Payne, who seems to be the zombie guy, I'm guessing he also has an hidden agenda. or is following the girls agenda, probably also has some usless power.

[Raven]

I think we need more information before we can 100% confirm Tobi's identity. I'm sure it will be concreted soon enough. For now let's just leave it as "he's the main bad guy".

I'm looking forward to seeing Pein in action. I wonder what he can do, if it is indeed to do with the weather. Never having lost a battle, that kind of suggests he's damned strong, but like it was mentioned in this thread, maybe he's just never had a really tough opponent?

[toonice714]

Looks like tobi might just be the final boss to part 2 of naruto. This part of naruto will end with the falling of akatsuki and sasuke or naruto becoming famous for beating them. Then there must be another sasuke v naruto in part 3. I'm pretty sure kishi said there were gonna be three parts to this manga btw. Also i'm guessing itachi had another reason for killing the entire uchiha clan because he is showing that he obvioulsy cares for his brother. It wouldn't make sense for him to care if sasuke died or not if he killed his entire clan. I bet he needed MS and one other uchiha to beat madara. I dont think he and sasuke will ever team up but i do see them fighting and sasuke not killing him.

[Splash!]

If Uchiha Madara was still alive:

And IF Uchia Madara is still alive, I am convinced that Tobi = Madara. Because Itachi already knew of another Sharingan user was still alive (hinted in this chapter), he must have faked Madara's death. Uchiha Madara must have instructed Itachi to act like he killed him so he can pull him toward his plan. And the wording as someone said, Japanese language can refer to oneself in 3rd person often so it wouldnt be surprising

Madara, we never heard from. I don't recall any part of the whole manga that reviled that Itachi did acutally kill his friend Madara. He kinda just went Sharingan crazy and obliterated his village. So Madara does seem like a likely candidate, and also he seems to be well knowledgeable about the Uchiha clan and also the Sharingin.

I thought Uchiha Madara was someone that existed around the same time as the 1st hokage, who later fought him, and an early member of the Uchiha clan (Perhaps the first person to display the abilities of the Sharingan). Why are you guys referring to him as the friend that Itachi killed to acquire the MS?

Edited the part of him being a friend after reading below

[Assertn]

Well, I did sympathize that the line does leave it open to interpretation, but my realization of Tobi being Madara actually came from the first spoiler pics w/o any translations. It just makes the most sense to me, since:

1. There have been frequent references to the existence of a 3rd Uchiha
2. Madara has been revered as the "ultimate Uchiha"
3. The likelyhood of someone besides Kakashi having a sharingan implant seems very small.
4. The likelyhood of a "false uchiha" having the strongest sharingan seems completely impractical.
5. Obito would OBVIOUSLY not be the main villain.

Edit:
Nobody has confirmed that Madara was the 1st Hokage's friend.
Itachi's friend was Uchiha Shisui (sp?)

[Carnage]

New Outofmyass Theory: Perhaps Akatsuki needs Sasuke's sharingan to summon the Phantom Dragon?

[February]

wow i completely mistaked Madara for Itachi's village friend, Shisui (spelling?)
But if it is the guy from way in the past, how is he surviving up to this point? ??
Maybe another similiar version of Oro's life prolonging jutsu?

[oni roh]

I can't see that happenning, Obito had his sharingan awakened about 20 mintues prior to his death, not likely that the super villian was there by chance and did all that emergency cutting and surgery without time to prepare (unless the sharingan is like Kuripata's eyes from HxH, which keep thier changed state if dead), other option is that he was waiting for this to happen, but Obito wasn't close to awakenning his eyes at that time, and there were probably Uchihas more close to that during those days.

Tobi is Obito, I can see no other way, it's like how Gin was Nigg (HxH), Obito was too lazy to think of an alias, so he just pushed his letters around, also, if you consider the personnality (Obito always making fun and excuses, being a 'naruto'ish guy) he is quite similiar to Tobi, who has since then upgraded the humor level manytimes over.

where did we see mentionnings of Madare's name? the kyubi spoke of him while Sasuke stuck his snobbish nose inside Naruto's head, and that's it, right? I can't remember wheather he was in one of those annoying Sasuke chapters...

Juugi can apparently speak to animals, it fits his charecter archtype - the crazy going gentle noble warrior. BORING.

I really wish to see Kabutoro again, though he's off the hook, at least for a while, he's got nothing to do with the current plot, and from his point of view, it's better to let all the others kill themselves and only then start his evil (master)plans again, if he even still has any use to them.

though, it will be cool if Kabuto was really Tobi's henchman, and is now creating the 2nd genration of the akatsuki base...

edit: Payne, who seems to be the zombie guy, I'm guessing he also has an hidden agenda. or is following the girls agenda, probably also has some usless power.

i'm inclined to aggree with you. Although it makes sense tobi = obito. If you catch the one page where kisame says to itachi about him being the "Last of the uchiha clan" if sasuke was dead. I don't find it believable for them to be in Akatsuki all this time and not know of Tobi's true identity, so in that aspect they don't view him as a uchiha survivor.

[Assertn]

If you ask me.....the past doesn't have to be more than 15 years ago. We know for certain that Kyubi encountered Madara before he was sealed, and we know that Madara was long gone before Itachi wiped out his clan, but both of these conditions could have been met anywhere between the beginning of Konoha and up until Kyubi attacks Konoha.