School Days

[Yukimura]

LOl arguing with a bunch of non native speakers is funny.

Anyway MFauli there is no way for you to convince shinta that you are not wrong because you are trying to logically argue an abstraction. shinta has stated he believes only concrete causations transfer responsibility. Example if you pull the trigger on a loaded gun pointed at a person the you are responsible for that person's death. However I think shinta would say if you told another person holding a loaded gun that the gun was empty then you are not responsible for the death the cause if they decide to pull the trigger without checking for themselves.

You (and I) seem to hold that responsibility can be transfered if a person acts in a way that is likely to result in a particular outcome regardless of the other choices. This is a socially preferable abstraction which makes it easier to hold people responsible when they do things that socially they shouldn't have done (like taking advantage of people less intelligent than themselves and convincing them to do things they shouldn't).

This dichotomy is not something that can be reasoned out with words because it's a part of how people choose to perceive the world. I think the way I do because I would want a person who offered a bum on the street money to kill me to be punished regardless of what choice the bum on the street made.

shinta your reasoning is logically sound as it places the blame on personal responsibility. However it is impractical in real world application because at some point people have to trust outside sources and if they are lied to or mislead by that source then the source should share the blame. Logic tends to ignore things like emotions, trust, deception, and expectations but these things all exist in our lives and I don't think it's fair for you to condemn people who aren't willing to sweep them under the rug just because you are. I'm not saying you have to agree but I'm trying to say opinions on who's responsible for what really come down to the personal values of the judge more than some sense of absolute right or wrong.

EDIT: Wait a tick...shinta if you're arguing that people's choices are the ultimate bearers of responsibility then what did Itou do wrong? Everything he did required another person to choose a response to him and as you've implied there are no certainties when dealing with how a person will react to another persons actions. If Sekai isn't responsible for Itou's reactions then is Itou responsible for the reactions of any of the other characters?