Summer Days wasn't popular because the game developer fucked up.
They released about 4 or 5 patches, and one was as big as 1GB.
And yeah... no english patch for either. Nor any group that is at least trying to do so (remember the Kanon group started almost 4 years ago and the Fate group took about 3 years to release theirs)
So some scenes were cut? I really have to see the original one then.
Peace.
More than just the scene of Sekai murdering Makoto in full stabby stab glory, there were also supposedly sound effects in the scene where Kotonoha...examines Sekai.
Argh...don't remind me... that scene gives me the creeps...
I hated Katsura before that... now I despise her...
Aw you don't like psychotic obsessive lover slaves?
Last edited by oyabun; Fri, 09-28-2007 at 11:34 PM.
Oookay, wtf....>_<
I admit that Itou was an asshole for fucking all the girls, BUT:
- Except for Katsura in the beginning, it´s the girls that wanted to get fucked by him.
- None of these girl cared about the fact, that Itou already had a girl friend
- Sekai helped Itou to get Katsura...dont complain afterwards, stupid bitch.
- Stupid Japanese girls get cheated on all the time but always forgive...yeah, uh, ok...
And last but not least:
No matter what, killing someone because he loves someone else is despicable.
And it was made clear in this last episode, that Itou loved Katsura. Maybe this was the beginning, but he realized that he did something wrong.
And Sekai had to accept it...but NO, stupid bitch kills him. *sigh*
But besides that:
Itou´s death was probably the most hardcore killing scene i ever saw in an anime. That was just gruesome.
Sekai's way better than Katsura. I don't know why he choose Katsura at the end.
Maybe cause she was the one he originally chose, or she said she loved him or she let him touch her tits. Any one of those could probably be it.
He chose Katsura at the end because all the other girls abandoned him after everyone found out he got Sekai pregnant. He didn't get back with Sekai after that because he refused to accept responsibility for Sekai's child. "Can't you just make it go away?" he said. 'Go Away,' like it's a door-to-door sales person. He's just a horny, irresponsibly little pissant of a human being, who thought he was hot shit because Sekai let him touch her. Katsura, having been driven insane earlier, knew none of this, and still wanted him back. She was the only person left he thought he could have sex with.
Makoto drove her insane, the other girls barely knew what was going on. After Sekai gave him what he wanted from Katsura in the first place, a one-sided relationship where he could still do whatever he felt like without caring about the girl. He wanted a fuck buddy. But because it was secret, he didn't have to go around with Sekai publicly. He never once defended Katsura when Otome and friends began to harass her. Never once admitted he was still seeing her, which to Katsura's knowledge, he was. He told Sekai he did so she would let him have sex with her, but didn't want to accept the responsibility of having to tell Katsura they were over. Then he pushed her over the brink when she found out what he did with Otome, she was being very badly abused by Otome's friends, and he pushed her away with Setsuna.
No one has ever been more deserving to die than Makoto. The tragedy of this series is that Sekai was killed afterwards. Katsura's insanity is a product of Makoto's actions.
Was she actually pregnant? Katsura's gory discovery by ripping her open says she wasnt.
Massive disagree with your complete posting.Originally Posted by Ryllharu
Itou didnt want to take responsibility? Giving advise to abort the child was a first step of responsibility. The child was unwanted, and at least from his perspective only a threat to both his and Sekai´s life.
Thanks to Sekai´s incredible gruesome behavior, we´ll never find out what Itou would have done if she´d said that she want abort the child. And you know what: If Katsura´s words were true, Sekai wasnt even pregnant. So after Itou´s clear advise to abort the child, she should have realised that he simply doesnt care about HER.
One last sentence: Should Itou have dropped the girl he loved in the end (Katsura) just because Sekai was, seemingly, pregnant`? I dont think so.
And if you think someone deserves death because he has sex with more than one girl, im scared....i really am.
Crazed high school girls generally aren't qualified to diagnose month old pregnancies. If Sekai was pregnant she probably wasn't far enough along for the baby to be visible to the naked eye, even if cut open with a butcher's knife. Also I don't believe Katsura was processing reality properly during any part of episodes 11 & 12. Her mind was experiencing some sort of fantasy world and anytime anything occurred that didn't makes sense in that fantasy world she would try and use her flawed fantasy world explanations to prove that reality was actually like it was in her mental world. When she was with Makoto the fantasy just happened to match reality so she seemed stable but if you notice every time she's not with him it's like she's off in la la land.
Something that I've come to realize in thinking about this show is that underneath all the sex and murder there are some pretty meaningful lessons to be learned from School Days. Since the characters were all stripped of social shame and guilt we got to see what could happen if people weren't grounded in decent morals and lacked conscience.
Katsura was the ultimate expression of the danger of loving 'the idea' of someone too deeply (her final scenes demonstrated this beautifully). She became so consumed with the idea of Makoto as her boyfriend that she couldn't process reality when it conflicted with her ideal. She was so far gone that even she'd removed his head she was still convinced that he was still alive. And what's more in addition to falling into a state where she couldn't face reality she also chose to kill her rival to keep her from interfering in her and Makoto's relation ship anymore. All this because she didn't give up like a normal person would when confronted with Makoto's dubious nature.
Sekai embodied the danger loving someone too deeply when they don't love you back. Even though she could see how Makoto was mainly interested in sex she was still in love with him. And because she loved him so much despite his faults she couldn't cope with the fact that he didn't love her back. Now it's true the baby changes things a lot and was probably what pushed her so far over the edge that she would kill him over the betrayal, but still she was a victim of her own inability to detach from a love that had no hope.
And our buddy Makoto represented the danger of ignoring or avoiding the consequences of your actions. Makoto always tried to run from any difficult or uncomfortable situation but eventually one caught up with him and it killed him. His final comment (assuming it was translated properly) was a perfect expression of his character. When you run from everything difficult, death is probably the greatest gift anyone can give you, because it frees you from all the things that were chasing you. In a way, by dying, Makoto was released from his guilt and responsibility for the mess he'd created. It would have been a better punishment for him to have had to live in a bitter sexless marriage with Sekai working his ass off trying to support her and their child. However since no woman can keep her panties up in his presence I guess killing him was the only viable way to actually punish him, even if it wasn't really all that much of a punishment.
Now obviously most people will never be as extreme examples as these three were, but looking at their story would help people to see where obsessive feelings or apathetic feelings ultimately lead.
Last edited by Yukimura; Sun, 09-30-2007 at 12:16 AM.
I'm sure Sekai really was pregnant. Like Yuki said, it has only been a week or so after she "found out" that Katsura killed her. There is no way for someone to identify the "baby" at that stage, let alone a psychotic high school girl. Her symptoms would have been mentally-induced, but I really doubt that.
Sekai wanted to keep the child. Makoto doesn't have any right to tell her that she should abort it because it's complicating his life and her announcement embarrassed him and made him lose face. He should have used a condom like he said he did with all the others. He fucked up, and wanted the problem gone.
Sekai was definitely pregnant. As Yuki pointed out, Kotonoha is in no condition to judge a month or two old pregnancy by vivisecting Sekai with a butcher knife, and looking inside. She was completely delusional at that point, so even if she, by some miracle, cut into the right spot of the womb, she would have ignored it. She cut off Makoto's head to keep it in a bag like he was still alive! She was utterly insane, and therefore completely unreliable. Sekai was as surprised as everyone else when she first found out. It's not like it was some twisted sick plot to keep him. If you think Katsura was a reliable source, you're a moron.
I have no problem with Makoto playing around with all the girls he meets. The problem is he initially claimed one was his girlfriend, and without telling her, said he had a new girlfriend, just so he could have sex with her (and lying to her about saying he had broken it off). After that he'd plow right into whatever other girl offered herself. He didn't deserve death for that, it was for going around everywhere, gleefully taking whatever was offered, only to deny he ever had responsibility for anything that results.
EDIT:
I went over it before in my post. He didn't love Katsura in the end. She was just the only person left who would touch him. The other girls didn't want to get near him after he impregnated Sekai, and Sekai was pregnant. Being a moron, I'm sure he didn't realize he could still have sex with her until the 3rd trimester. To Makoto, it was all about avoiding responsibility.
Last edited by Ryllharu; Sun, 09-30-2007 at 07:55 PM.
@Ryll - its a good thing you replied first before I brutally flamed you-know-who for being a moron. Now the hate is slowly slipping away, and I can manage to comment more objectively.
Facts:
Sekai is pregnant.
Itou is a worthless excuse for a homosapien, and thus deserves to be killed before he causes more damage.
There are some itou-level twisted AND idiotic people out in the real world as well (proven a few posts above).
Peace.
Everything else is major speculation, but to this one i want to answer:
Itou didnt lie because he was a moron or idiot or a*shole or whatever. Once Katsura became his girlfriend, he realized that Sekai loved him. When things got fully started with Sekai, he just didnt know what to do anymore. He had to lovely girls, and he didnt want to break anyone´s heart. You can clearly see that when rewatch the beginning of the series. Whenever there´s upcoming the question "So did you break up with Katsura?" he avoided it with "ehhh" or "you know...." or just didnt answer.
Surely, things went out of hand when Kato, Kiyora and the 3 bitches came into play. But in the end, it came down to Katsura and Sekai. All the other girls have been a non-factor for the progress of the story.
Actually, after writing this posting, i can see how death was the only possible outcome of their relationship. Well, the other one would have been, you know, the 3 libing in a 3-men-relationship ^^
But whatever, if at all, you can say that Itou couldnt decide what he wanted...but that´s only because he loved both Katsura and Sekai equally. Sekai being pregnant was then a bit of a helper to make his decision, but as you people pointed out, Sekai was pregnant only for a week or so, so we dont know what Itou would have done if there was no going back, no possibility for an abortion anymore.
Oh, and thanks for the nice words, shintahikari ^^
If youre that appreciative I guess I just have to oblige.
I agree that he loved Sekai and Katsura equally... equally 0. I am pretty sure that he didnt love anyone except his dick. I guess he should love you though.
Do you live in your own little world or something? I dont want to waste any more time preaching to you, and I dont think anyone thinks of your opinions as anything more than ****.
Peace.
Wohoo... I missed a lot of great discussion for being away...
Anyways...
My point of view is that Sekai *might* have gone insane because they pushed the right buttons on her... she was pregnant, she was told to abort by the father, the father didn't want anything else with her because of the baby, and he practically slapped her when he kissed Katsura in front of her. Add hormones of a a pregnant girl and ouch.
Katsura's reason for becoming crazy was... that Makoto broke with her. Some would say that it helped that Otome and her friends harrased her but... was this the fault of Sekai and idiotic-to-be-Makoto? Everyone is bullied at least once at school. Katsura was totally crazy.
Makoto didn't love anyone like stated before. Or maybe he did at some point, but when he noticed he could fuck anyone that would allow him, he simply stopped loving Sekai and Katsura. I mean... at the beginning he seem to really care... and its bullshit that everything changed because Sekai kissed him at the beginning... no... it began when Otome jumped on him. Add Setsuna offering herself... the trio wanting to experiment... and a sad Hikari... at the end he did deserve to die for being a complete coward.
PS: I still want to see an ep where Katsura's family find her hugging a head :P. And Sekai was killed at school... so someone definitely if going to find her there soon. Too bad no more eps were done. Yes... they would be useless to the plot, but its something I would like to see.
None of this is any speculation. It's clear in Makoto's actions, and occasionally he outright states his present stance.
I'll admit that Makoto thought he loved Katsura in the beginning. But he wasn't willing to put any effort into their relationship. Katsura wanted to take it slow because she had this overly romantic vision of love in her head. Just when she decided that she might want to become a little more forward, Sekai stepped in. He was ignorant about what a relationship actually is, but seemed to have a crush on Katsura, little else.
Sekai gave Makoto everything he wanted. A physical relationship where he didn't have to put in any effort. That's why he kept calling it "practice." Even as Sekai asked him to tell Katsura about the two of them, he suddenly got lazy about telling Katsura and continued to call it "practice" a few more times.
Once Sekai started to get more attached to him, he started to get colder towards her. Just wanting sex. RyougaZell got it right. Everything was fairly normal until Otome jumped him. He accepted without question because he only wanted physical relationships. After Katsura went insane, she was very willing to give him that because from the show that Setsuna and he gave her, that's what she assumed she failed Makoto in. She had been warming herself up to the idea the whole time when her little world collapsed. He took her back because no one else would give him what he wanted without commitment (Sekai) or effort (anyone new).
Makoto's mistake comes from calling a physical relationship an emotional one. If you go on dates and have fuck buddies, go for it. Just don't call them girlfriends. Girlfriends require effort and compromise, not just an urge.
We should take note though, that Makoto never outright said that anyone except Katsura was his girlfriend. People usually assumed that he and Sekai were going out, which he simply let slide without denying or affirming (his dumb blank troubled/smirking look does not count as either one) it. But this attitude is simply one of irresponsibility, not in consideration for others feelings or anything of the sort. He didnt clarify what he was doing, since it was the easier thing to do.
Another reason why I hated Makoto so much is the fact that he knew that the girls were being hurt (they say so outright like Sekai, pull away from him like Otome, or go into walking coma mode like Katsura) but never felt an ounce of guilt. Katsura may be the only exception, but realizing his "love" for her in the end does not omit all of the crap he has done before, and he is likely to do to Sekai after.
If he did truly love Kotonoha, it would be an even more fitting end for him. Just when he has a chance to "settle down"and change, he gets killed for his exploits and idiocy. Ironic, and deserved, I say.
Another reason why he went back to Kotonoha was the fact that everyone realized he was a cretin, including Sekai. Unfortunately, Sekai loved him and was pregnant, thus simply cannot let him go like Otome did even with such a realization. Kotonoha was simply deluded, thinking that Makoto is a great guy from the start, probably since she knows nothing about how relationships work.
Peace.
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