Naruto Chapter 361

[JaySee]

Lols, you're a fuckin retard, JaySee.

Do you honestly think Kakashi was trying to ask Itachi a question in #1, just because it ended with a question mark? You're saying #1 sounded like Kakashi had no idea if MS hurts a person's eyes and pretends to be genuinely curious? Itachi's response in #2 even stated something along the lines of "I'm impressed you learned so much from just one confrontation with it." So why would Itachi not think that Kakashi knew?

Screw the literary comprehension, you need to learn basic social interaction, son. This has become highly lollable. I can't even tell if I'm supposed to be taking you seriously or not.

Um... yeah... who's the retard? YOU! <--bet you don't see the irony in that either.
There is no question mark in what Kakashi said. That's one of the punctuation deficiencies I was pointing out moron! I'm not, nor never was, saying Kakashi didn't know you idiot! Have you even finished High School English? How stupid are you? Go back and read what I quoted and actually wrote and realise how stupid you sound.

Will someone point out the obvious to this moron? He's either completely stupid or so jaded towards me he can't see what's right in front of him.

Sub-case 2: Itachi believes that all Kakashi knows is that MS puts your eyes at risk.

Then the sudden change between #3 and #4 can be result of Itachi being astonished that Kakashi knows the exact nature of of his problem (which can only be known through personal experience and Kakashi having acquired the MS himself)

This is the only option that makes sense. Case 1 is completely idiotic. There is no metaphor. Kakashi and Itachi are talking about MS and Tsukuyomi. I've already explained why there is no metaphor and why there is a reaction difference.

Subcase 1 makes no sense. The reaction difference between #2 and #4 is too great. If Itachi thought Kakashi actually knew for sure that his eyesight was being damaged (not necessarily going blind) he would've reacted more severely.

I'm bored, so I'll hold Assertn's short-bus riding hand and show him why he's such an idiot...

Conversely, let's think of it this way:

1) Kakashi says MS takes a toll on the user.
2) Itachi is impressed by Kakashi's observation.
3) Kakashi asks how bad Itachi's eyesight has become.
4) Itachi freaks out.

#1 is wrong. Kakashi clearly ASKS that it takes a toll on Itachi's eyes. I guess you're slow brain didn't catch that because of the punctuation mistake.

Now, if we were to assume that JaySee was right, then #3 does not present anything that #1 doesn't present, right? So why would Itachi's #4 be so dramatically different from #2? It just doesn't make any sense!

WRONG! #1 Kakashi is pretending not to know and making his statement in the form of a question to Itachi. #3 is where he's letting Itachi know that he already has the answer through personal experience. You're just to stupid to figure it out.

However, if we consider #3 to be metaphorical in that it implies Itachi has failed to observe something important, then it does become new information, which justifies the drastically different #4 response.

WRONG! Only an idiot (oh right... it's you we're dealing with...) would assume a METAPHOR of something that was just previously stated plain and clear seconds before. You're just some moron reading too much into it because you think you're intelligent. However you missed all the clear, basic, and simple signs of what was really being said. So shut up about your literary techniques and learn basic comprehension first.

You better cool it. I'm about ready to ban you on grounds of flaming. I'm pretty much convinced that you're only posting this shit to piss me off. There's no other explanation why anyone can be this dumb.

[Splash!]

Subcase 1 makes no sense. The reaction difference between #2 and #4 is too great. If Itachi thought Kakashi actually knew for sure that his eyesight was being damaged (not necessarily going blind) he would've reacted more severely.

The only reason you would think he would react more severely to #2 in subcase 1 is because you are expecting the same sort of reaction as #4 in subcase 2 (because at both these points he is faced with the same knowledge, i.e Kakashi knowing he is losing his eyesight).

Be careful no to assume one scenario and try to disprove the other by measuring it up against that one. Consider them seperately.
I think the reaction difference in subcase 1 b/w 2 and 4 is explained if we consider what Kakashi said as taunt on both Itachi's condition and as a metaphor revealing he has MS. Itachi is reacting to knowledge that Kakashi has acquired the mangekyou. Of course, you will tend to disagree with this also because you do not acknowledge there could possibly be a metaphor in the first place.

Regardless, I too am of the opinion that subcase 2 is the most likely and do agree with you. However the other situations are also plausible to a certain degree, though unlikely.

Oh and I disagree about this not playing an important part later. It might very well be that the MS side effects turn out to Itachi's downfall in the fight against Sasuke.

[KCMmmmm]

That's one of the punctuation deficiencies I was pointing out moron!

Should read: "That's one of the punctuation deficiencies I was pointing out, moron." Requires a comma before moron, to separate the sentence from the person receiving it.

I'm not, nor never was, saying Kakashi didn't know you idiot! Have you even finished High School English?

Should read: "I never said Kakshi didn't know, you idiot!" The triple negative needs to be taken out, and (again), separation between the sentence and the intended audience.

I guess you're slow brain didn't catch that because of the punctuation mistake.

Should read: "I guess your slow brain didn't catch that because of the punctuation mistake." The contraction "you're" is not proper here; use "your" instead.

I guess we all make mistakes.

By the way:

Whether or not that Mangekyou Sharingan is takes a toll on the eyes, I doubt it will play a part in the storyline. If we had a Sharingan-less Itachi going around, Sasuke would kill him faster and won't prove much of a fight to us.

He posted this to end the debate. I think it's a good idea to end it as well.

[Assertn]

But here's the thing , with all that being said, you seem to be ignoring #1 and #2 alot and focusing alot more on the sudden change in Itachi's expression in between #3 and #4. :words:

Whether Itachi is going blind or not is pretty much completely at Kishimoto's own discretion, but the point I'm trying to make is that the exchange between Itachi and Kakashi is definitely insufficient in drawing any definite conclusions that would lead to this.

For the most part, you seem to agree with me that the response by Itachi was mostly due to his realization that Kakashi does in fact have MS.

Hmm... maybe because... #1 is in the form of a QUESTION. Hence my comment about bad punctuation.

There is no question mark in what Kakashi said. That's one of the punctuation deficiencies I was pointing out moron! I'm not, nor never was, saying Kakashi didn't know you idiot!

#1 is wrong. Kakashi clearly ASKS that it takes a toll on Itachi's eyes. I guess you're slow brain didn't catch that because of the punctuation mistake.

I'll let this speak for itself. It seems JaySee's doing a good enough job contradicting himself without my help.

@KCMmmmm: Ohhhhhh snap! =]

[JaySee]

The only reason you would think he would react more severely to #2 in subcase 1 is because you are expecting the same sort of reaction as #4 in subcase 2 (because at both these points he is faced with the same knowledge, i.e Kakashi knowing he is losing his eyesight).

You're forgetting that Kakashi is not making a clear defined statement at the start. He's stating a question.

Should read: "That's one of the punctuation deficiencies I was pointing out, moron." Requires a comma before moron, to separate the sentence from the person receiving it.

Correct

Should read: "I never said Kakshi didn't know, you idiot!" The triple negative needs to be taken out, and (again), separation between the sentence and the intended audience.

Incorrect. It should actually read "...nor ever was..."

Should read: "I guess your slow brain didn't catch that because of the punctuation mistake." The contraction "you're" is not proper here; use "your" instead.

Correct. I don't have QA/QC people to fix my writing.

MS taking a toll on the eyes does factor into the story in a major way seeing as 2 of the major characters having it and possibly a third.

I'll let this speak for itself. It seems JaySee's doing a good enough job contradicting himself without my help.

Umm... nope. No contradictions what so ever in those quotes. You're just to stupid to see the connection. Living up to that FAILURE part in your nick, eh?

Someone tell Assertn to just shut up on this subject. He just keeps making an ass out of himself. Someone kindly take him aside and point out his deficiencies to him.

User is banned for consistently berating and defying mods.

[Assassin]

Didn't we have this exact discussion in the Naruto Anime forum when the episode with the itachi/kakashi talk was shown?

I vote we make further argument on this topic a banable offense until such time that concrete proof is provided to us by kishimoto in the form of a clear and concise statement.

[Assertn]

Nah man.....I actually liked the potential debate we could have had before JaySee killed it. I'd almost be inclined to just dedicate a thread to it.

[toonice714]

Wow!! i come back to check on the forums after 1 freakin post and it blows up. I just read everything and laughed for like half an hour. I feel kinda bad for giving up this source of info. Anyways the only way that consequence for the MS would be good was if the reason itachi is always using sharingan is because they are like his glasses. b/c his normal eyesight is horrible.

Come on shino screen time!!!! I'm getting tired of seeing sasuke. i dont care what anyone thinks he betrayed everybody by leaving and still got nothing to show for it. There are a myriad of intelligent ninja in konoha for him to study under. WTF should he go to somewhere else to train. Nevermind dont wanna get flammed by other sasuke fans. I personally think he's gay and overrated. .........sharingan sucks....~runs away~

[KCMmmmm]

Wow!! i come back to check on the forums after 1 freakin post and it blows up. I just read everything and laughed for like half an hour. I feel kinda bad for giving up this source of info. Anyways the only way that consequence for the MS would be good was if the reason itachi is always using sharingan is because they are like his glasses. b/c his normal eyesight is horrible.

Right. Or if during the approaching fight between Sasuke and Itachi, Itachi used MS on Sasuke, weakening him too much to fight....and then....went blind right after using it, handing the final blow, and the win to Sasuke! Eh? How does that sound? Well...the next chapter should be out soon, so.....I want to see Deidara's last move.