are you on crack?
TDK's joker was cold, heartless and did everything at random. infact he even says it when he's talking to Dent in the hospital "im not a schemer, i just DO". I'll admit that all his chaos had a sublime planning to it, but it was chaos nonetheless.
Ruthless? His minions did all the work. The joker did pretty much nothing. In all honesty, the Joker didnt kill any innocents. All he killed was those who helped him. Hardly call that Ruthless.
He tried to get the innocents to kill the innocents... ok... that made absolutely no sense to me. Would have been better if the Joker did that himself to show he is Ruthless, heartless and Evil Incarnate, like I said, the Joke was the complete opposite of who the joker is.
lol...ok, im not even gonna try to convince you otherwise in that case.
Getting innocent people to kill other innocent people is worse than just doing it yourself.Originally Posted by Shadow Skill
Most evil that people pportray do use other people to do their dirty work. I mean, if you think you're better and all that, why get your own hands dirty if you can make someone else do it?
Killing off your own followers shows just how rutheless you really are, too. I mean.. you could just kill an innocent, but no,you assert your dominance over the people that follow you.
All that sounds pretty mean and bad to me. :P
No, he was a clumsy villian who refused to harm innocents. His entire persona was that of a dawdling 5 y.o who obviously has daddy issues. His whole purpose in the show was to corrupt Harvey Dent, that's not evil incarnate, neither is getting innocents to kill other innocents. That's the Joker being a coward. Him killing his minions just shows that's he's willing to hurt those he needs to help him, when in reality, the joker doesnt really need a group of minions to pull off the greatest terror plot in Gotham.
Despite TDK being an origins story, there was no origin to the Joker. All the joker was was somebody who wanted to be noticed by society and corrupt Harvey Dent.
As I said, he was far from ruthless and evil incarnate.
And?? You make it sound like being evil only comes in one way. Good and evil aren't usually that black and white. From a lot of the old Batman stuff, he was being chased after by the police for what he did.
What you're saying isn't helping to prove your point at all. Getting someone to kill another person doesn't make you a coward. Not in any definition I've ever read, unless he was afraid to do it all. But that wasn't the case since everyone knew who was trying to get people to kill eachother. If he put his face out there like that, he sure wasn't afraid of getting caught.
Also, technically, by the definition of evil, yes, he is evil.
and he did kill innocent people....dont forget those random murders when he was trying to make his point and get batman to reveal himself.
Those murders were not random, they were part of the law that helped batman bring down the criminal ring leaders. How is that random? He didnt do the killing, that was again, those that worked for him. Don't use Maggie Gyllanhal's character, that was the other cops that did that.
No, not afraid, a coward. The Joker killed only 3 or 4 people throughout the movie, and they all worked for him. Nothing more than a pansy who wanted attention.
So you can STOP using the word coward incorrectly. I'll provide you with the link and the definition.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coward
Here's the link for evil, tooJust in case you want to throw that word in next.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/evil
Being a coward implies fear, as we see, it's in the definition of the word. You, yourself, have just said that he was not afraid. The Joker was not timid, etc. Everyone knew it was him that tried to do everything, so he wasn't hiding it from anyone. The word coward does not apply in this situation, thank you, try again.
Just because you don't like the way a character was portrayed, or don't like the way something happens, doesn't mean that it wasn't good the way it was, or the way it was planned out to be. Being evil is not considered on how cowardly you are, either, as many serial killers.. are cowards, but people don't consider them any less evil.
How many kills you can notch underneath your belt doesn't define how evil you are, either. If that's the case, Batman can be considered pretty darn evil, he kills people, but he at least does it for, what he considers, the greater good.
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This is kinda fun, though
Though I apologize if it's too long
joker is the shit.
Gee, good thing you're not a professional critic, cause these suggestions are pure shit.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
I can't figure out which people you're referring to.
In any case, ignoring you're suggestion that killing people himself would make him more "HARDCORE", he killed the mob guy with the pencil, and the Batman imposters. That's at least 2 or 3 on top of the people he killed who worked for him.
Anyway, killing people himself would have made him a boring and pretty run of the mill villain. I don't understand why you'd want that.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
but he did kill people himself
Dreaming impossible dreams.
Sapphire is awesome!
Yeah! Joker killed those bank robbers in the beginning, and put a grenade into the mouth of the guy who tried to stop him.
Overall great movie though! So sad about heath ledger
Bruce Wayne was sexxy though!
I admit he killled a few people, in reality, he was also strapped with explosives so nobody would attempt to kill him. That aside, cowards way out, he was very timid, jittery, clumsy, he was like a buffoon. It felt as though the Joker was the light-side of the equation.
All in all, he got his minions to kill for him. Dunno about you, but that's not the joker in the comics or the cartoon. The Joker is suppose to represent the greatest threat to Gotham and to Batman, his laugh wasnt even evil, was more comedic than anything.
I suggest you watch the movie again and again, I have and I can say with fact, the Joker wasnt even a match for batman.
The point is, when the Joker is telling the Mobsters he knows the coward type, who will rat out anyone, He was referring to himself in that aspect. SO do please try again on your Batman mythology and how a character is portrayed. The Joker just was not given any justice or respect by Heath Leadger. If anything, the Joker looked Emo... He looked like he was suffering from depression and if Batman didnt take notice of him, he'd have killed himself.
I can say maybe it was Heath's real life problems that got reflected in his acting, but fact remains, The Joker role, is just a joke.
As for the guy killed on Cam, who knows, the camera moved away so that part is difficult to say, since The Joker could have easily handed him to his minions to kill.
The Joker is suppose to take pride in his handywork, not run before he can see the outcome of it. This Joker went against everything Batman, the Joker and everything else that has been built around the Batman-Joker Mythos stood for.
The Joker was supposed to sound like a comedian, thus the name.
The Joker >.> was supposed to be a joke see first reason.
It seems like you just don't like the actor, rather than.. the way they showed the Joker. If we also go back a few posts ago, I defined coward for you. By that definition, the Joker is not a coward.
We've also been over that using your minions to kill off other people is a smart move, because it keeps you alive. Sorry to burst yoru bubble, but if the leader lives and a few goonies die, well.. he can still get away with his plan, no problem. There's nothing cowrdly about using dumb people to do your dirty work. It just means that they're dumb.
In a lot of other plays on Batman, the Joker has minions who help him do his dirty work.
So you need to get past that he's a coward and that using his minions to kill other people makes him one. You're not winning much with circular reasoning on this one, in my opinion >.<
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