Naruto Shippuuden Episode 17

[masamuneehs]

Funny how everyone's attacking me on the stupid tatoo and not on the actual issue here...

On the issue of the origin of Gaara's sand shield? Well, since you said that you thought it was his mother's love (the lie told to him when he was younger), and it's actually not, I think that about rules out all the options except that the automatic sand shield is the Shukaku's work, how it protects itself.

And, bringing it back around to the earlier discussion, that point and the fact that Shukaku would possess Gaara whenever he went to sleep indicates that Chiyo's sealing of the Bijuu into Gaara was NOT as good of a seal as the 4th's of the Kyuubi into Naruto. Then again, Chiyo is still alive and the 4th is said to have died in the sealing process.

But whether that means that Kyuubi is stronger than Shukaku?... honestly, I'm with Assassin on this one; by anime logic, the Kyubbi is the strongest simply because it's the one sealed within the main character.

edit - i <3 crash

[Crash]

Funny how everyone's attacking me on the stupid tatoo and not on the actual issue here...

The tatoo is the new thing you've brought for us to correct you on. The first thing was already addressed the first time i responded to you and gave you a time stamp to start from. The only reason his uncle told him the protection of the sand was his mothers love was because he was lying to himself trying to believe that Gaara was his sisters beloved child and he should love him as well. As he lay dying he revealed the truth that his sister had no desire for Gaara to ever be born and gave him the name so that he would only love himself and only live for himself as a symbol of her hatred of the village.

And, bringing it back around to the earlier discussion, that point and the fact that Shukaku would possess Gaara whenever he went to sleep indicates that Chiyo's sealing of the Bijuu into Gaara was NOT as good of a seal as the 4th's of the Kyuubi into Naruto. Then again, Chiyo is still alive and the 4th is said to have died in the sealing process.

I don't necessarily think that means Chiyo's sealing was not as good. The fact is that the sealings were done with a different Purpose. Chiyo wanted Gaara to have full access to Shukaku's power because the sand intended him to be a weapon. The fourth on the other hand intended to seal the Nine tail away in order to save the village. In other words, the Fourths teqnique was intended to be a prison for the Kyubi, while Chyo's was intended to merge Gaara and Shukaku as a single entity to be used as a weapon. Different purposes and thus different effects.

[Assertn]

...and both techniques involved a human sacrifice. Just because Chiyo herself didn't die doesn't mean that Naruto's seal had a greater sacrifice. Gaara's mom still had to die as a part of the process.

[JaySee]

On the issue of the origin of Gaara's sand shield? Well, since you said that you thought it was his mother's love (the lie told to him when he was younger), and it's actually not, I think that about rules out all the options except that the automatic sand shield is the Shukaku's work, how it protects itself.

So you guys are going to believe the admitted liar's second version? That makes sense... How exactly is it that an admitted liar's second statement become the "truth"?

[Crash]

So you guys are going to believe the admitted liar's second version? That makes sense... How exactly is it that an admitted liar's second statement become the "truth"?

You're right, everything he said must be a lie. I've just figured it out thanks to you. Gaara didn't have a mom. He was a genetically engineered body created to be a container for Shukaku. You see, the people of the sand have been trying for years to create the perfect Jinchuriki. One that could withstand and control Shukaku without going insane. OMG that also means that Chyo probably isn't going with them to save Gaara, but rather to collect Shukaku so that they can try to transfer him to the newest test tube baby. It all becomes so clear if you just ignore the facts, i can't believe i never saw it before i was such a fool.

[Assertn]

Ok....its become less of a debate and more of a flame war now.

Crash, you've made your point. Let it rest.
JaySee, if you want to retort, then back it up with facts rather than attacking other members.

This doesn't even really pertain to this episode anyway....

[ASSpirine]

We can talk about the different ways of sealing a bijuu. But I'm very interested in the following. Yondaime Hokage sealed the Kyuubi just like the Third did. There was a battle between him and the Kyuubi. That makes sense and is believable.

But, HOW did chiyo put the Shukaku inside Gaara? It's not like Shukaku sits there and waits there. Maybe they took the Shukaku from someone else.

[Assertn]

Chiyo said that Gaara was like what, the 3rd or 4th sand Jinchurriki to bear Shukaku?

Shukaku was sealed within the ashes of a sand priest prior to the sealing Chiyo performed on Gaara. This was mentioned in that hospital scene where Gaara attempts to kill Lee.

[DarthEnderX]

I don't necessarily think that means Chiyo's sealing was not as good. The fact is that the sealings were done with a different Purpose. Chiyo wanted Gaara to have full access to Shukaku's power because the sand intended him to be a weapon. The fourth on the other hand intended to seal the Nine tail away in order to save the village. In other words, the Fourths teqnique was intended to be a prison for the Kyubi, while Chyo's was intended to merge Gaara and Shukaku as a single entity to be used as a weapon. Different purposes and thus different effects.

See, thats the point I'm not entirely agreeing with. Since the 3rd used the 4th's sealing technique on Orochimaru, we know that you can use the technique to simply take the target with you to the Underworld rather than just sealing him up. If the 4ths only goal was to protect the village from Kyuubi, he could have dragged it with him to the Underworld. Obviously on some level, he also wanted Kyuubi to be used as a weapon by the village. Granted, that weapon is for protecting the village, but if his only goal is stopping Kyuubi he didn't have to seal it inside Naruto.

[Crash]

See, thats the point I'm not entirely agreeing with. Since the 3rd used the 4th's sealing technique on Orochimaru, we know that you can use the technique to simply take the target with you to the Underworld rather than just sealing him up. If the 4ths only goal was to protect the village from Kyuubi, he could have dragged it with him to the Underworld. Obviously on some level, he also wanted Kyuubi to be used as a weapon by the village. Granted, that weapon is for protecting the village, but if his only goal is stopping Kyuubi he didn't have to seal it inside Naruto.

A valid point, i stand corrected. It had slipped my mind that the user could simply seal the target within himself.

[Idealistic]

See, thats the point I'm not entirely agreeing with. Since the 3rd used the 4th's sealing technique on Orochimaru, we know that you can use the technique to simply take the target with you to the Underworld rather than just sealing him up. If the 4ths only goal was to protect the village from Kyuubi, he could have dragged it with him to the Underworld. Obviously on some level, he also wanted Kyuubi to be used as a weapon by the village. Granted, that weapon is for protecting the village, but if his only goal is stopping Kyuubi he didn't have to seal it inside Naruto.

That's simply because..... The 4th is the leader of Akatsuki.

Ok I was jk.. I would hope not. I agree with you though. I don't really understand the whole sealing thing.

[Assertn]

"Ah 4th, I see......it was to protect this boy....." - Jiraiya referring to Naruto's seal.

Man, you guys forgot like, every single detail pertaining to bijuu, jinchurrikis, and seals, haven't you?

[DarthEnderX]

Pfft, what does Jiraiya know. He's drunk all the time.

[iluvnaruto123]

what sucks is that naruto episode 18 isn't out yet

[Assertn]

That is the best second post ever

[StillAlive]

I'm not sure about this but perhaps the 4th couldn't drag the Kyuubi to the underworld because the tailed beasts are somewhat forces of nature that simply appear in the Naruto-Universe. So it's not like the Kyuubi is the spirit of a certain dead fox that can be taken to the underworld like a human spirit but rather a nature spirit that can't be killed or get rid of (sry for the crappy comparision). Therfore sealing may be the best way to deal with them

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, maybe that's it.

I'm sure they'll explain it someday.

[GreatLimmick]

Why explain when it's so much easier to handwave, make cryptic references, and come back to it again in a hundred episodes to confuddle the situation even more?

[Psyke]

Just 2 things I'd like to point out amidst the discussions:

Although the kangi on Gaara's forehead "ai" (愛) means love, it is also part of his name "Gaara" (我愛羅). Might not mean anything special, but some of you guys might not have noticed it.

And with reference to StillAlive's post that the Kyuubi is the spirit of a certain dead fox, it's actually the opposite. In Japanese mythical folklore, such beings appear because they have lived for a very long time, or ate a lot of humans, and in fact has become a deity. That's why they are feared and are also worshipped.

[XaVi£r]

hey it's been 2 weeks without releasing a new episode. any words when 18 is gonna get out? ty