Naruto Shippuuden Episode 13

[Yukimura]

This is a good example of a situation where something may have been lost in translation too. Does anyone know if there was anything about the way Kakashi actually worded the statement that might have put extra emphasis somewhere meaningful?

Otherwise the evidence is just circumstantial. It's like Light in Death Note, there are lots of things about him that would make perfect sense if he was Kira, but none of it proves he is. In the same way Kakashi's statement and Itachi's reaction would make sense if Kakashi had Mangekyou, but it obviously doesn't prove anything since there are also other explanations.

On the flip side until Kakashi produces a new jutsu that isn't Mangekyou it'll impossible to dispell the suspicion.

[DarthEnderX]

I like UChessMaster's explanation best. All the things Kisame said last time give Kakashi the info he needed to come to the conclusion he did.

I actually thought after he said it that Itachi WAS just kinding of staring impassively. I started to wonder if he wasn't actually looking at anyone before and they were too far away to see.

[XanBcoo]

I like UChessMaster's explanation best. All the things Kisame said last time give Kakashi the info he needed to come to the conclusion he did.

Dude, that was totally my explanation .

@Masa: I assume by "blind spot" you mean that dark corner on the screen?

Huh...

So assuming Kakashi has somehow developed Mangekyou, I wonder how he got it. Which one of his buddies has he offed?

[DB_Hunter]

@Masa: I don't think that the pic is showing a blind spot. Even if Kakshi's Sharingan eye has deteriorated slightly, he still has his other eye which should be able see normally.

@XanBcoo:

I...don't think you got my point. I don't see what this reply has to do with what I said. Kakashi's question was addressed to Itachi about Itachi's eyesight. Why anyone would pull from that that Kakashi has experience with deteriorating eyesight himself is beyond me.

Its simple... it't not something thats been mentioned for other Sharingan users, so it doesn't apply to them. Therefore if Kakashi still only has the normal Sharingan, he can't possibly know about this side effect.

IMO, the setting of the question and the tone of Kakashi's voice (if I may go so far to say), suggests this is an entirely rhetorical question. He knows Itachi's eyesight has gotten worse, and if my suspicion on normal Sharingan users not having worsening eyesight is correct, he could only know what caused it if he has now obtained the Mangekyou Sharingan, as it only happens to Mangekyou users. It's all just Kakashi's cool way of indirectly telling Itachi he now also has the Mangekyou Sharingan.

If this isn't enough, Itachi's next statement is the final proof: "Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..."

Couldn't have what? Joined MENSA because you're so smart by figuring all this out? He has just finished praising Kakashi all the way through the conversation for his insight, and now he decides to get shocked? I don't buy that.

Kakashi has had plenty of experience with it. It's been used on him before, and he's been able to deduce the effects of MS on the user as a result of Itachi's actions.

No, he doesn't. Being subjected to an attack once is not plenty of experience. Certainly not for deducing intangible weaknesses of an attack.

He also remembers what Kisame (who works alongside Itachi and knows about MS's effects) said.

Kisame told Itachi not to use his eyes too much because it is dangerous for him, not necessarily his eyes alone. Obviously if Itachi drains all his chakra by using the Mangekyou he is going to collapse. I seriously doubt Itachi would have revealed such a severe weakness of one his main attacking options to Kisame. They are in Akatsuki, not a friendly after school club. My money is on Kisame simply telling Itachi not to drain all his chakra at once.

[UChessmaster]

I still don`t beleive that Kakashi deducted mang stresses itachi`s eyes because Kakashi himself has Mang., in fact even IF Kakashi has mang. it proves nothing, since Kakashi is not an actuall Uchiha the effects of a Normal sharingan makes him go uncounscious for a week after THREE techniques(see zabuza arc) , i supose if he uses something like mang he will be out for a month... that doesn`t mean itachi goes down after 3 tehcniques nor that he is down after 1 mang.

Again, if we decide that Kakashi knows about mang weak point because he has it himself, we`ll have to neglet some important parts of the whole discuccion, i emphasis again in the kisame flashback, what`s the point of it in the first place then?

[animus]

I still don`t beleive that Kakashi deducted mang stresses itachi`s eyes because Kakashi himself has Mang., in fact even IF Kakashi has mang. it proves nothing, since Kakashi is not an actuall Uchiha the effects of a Normal sharingan makes him go uncounscious for a week after THREE techniques(see zabuza arc) , i supose if he uses something like mang he will be out for a month... that doesn`t mean itachi goes down after 3 tehcniques nor that he is down after 1 mang.

Again, if we decide that Kakashi knows about mang weak point because he has it himself, we`ll have to neglet some important parts of the whole discuccion, i emphasis again in the kisame flashback, what`s the point of it in the first place then?

He didn't need to deduce that fact by himself, he was there when Kisame told Itachi not to use it to much because it strains/weakens his eyes. He then states it again to Itachi, and Itachi praises him for that analysis with his same stoic, cold glare. But that's not the issue here, the issue is Kakashi's next statement of "Itachi, how bad has your eyesight become?" clearly induced a state of surprise and shock and that's evident by Itachi's statement of "Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..." and his facial expression and a slight gasp. Why do you think he had such a reaction? Because he was afraid Kakashi would find out that he had used it continuously and was possibly near blindness? No, I don't think he would have a reaction like that to something so trivial. Again, I point to Itachi's statement, people are denying the fact that this statement has A LOT of meaning.

[boilerph]

Ok now the thread is going from one broad leap to Kakashi having Mangekyou to everyone putting words in Kisame's mouth. Kisame never said that Itachi shouldn't use it because it strains his eyes. He just warned him against using it too much, we have seen that same warning given to people throughout this show and it was because of Chakra consumption i.e. Kakashi telling Sasuke he could only use the Chidoro twice. Making the leap that Kakashi would hear this and decide on the move damaging eyesight permanently is crazy. There's no precedent for that kind of warning meaning that anywhere else in the show. The closest thing was Lee's Lotus use back in the day and that was still not permanent damage. They show the flashback to what Kisame said as proof of Kakashi's statement about the Chakra requirements of the move.


Kakashi knowing about the eyesight deterioration is a self-contained statement that we can do nothing but speculate about. Kakashi having the Magekyou is one explanation however the other possibility, that noone has mentioned, is Kakashi found the hidden Uchiha scroll that explains the technique. I don't remember them showing Sasuke taking it with him or destroying it so it was probably still right there waiting to be found.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Does Kisame's VA have lisp?

Horrible.

[masamuneehs]

This is a good example of a situation where something may have been lost in translation too. Does anyone know if there was anything about the way Kakashi actually worded the statement that might have put extra emphasis somewhere meaningful

Dattebayo translated it like this:
Kakashi (after flashback of Kisame and Itachi in Konoha): "Besides using a large amount of chakra, using that technique poses a huge risk to your eyes. Right, Itachi?"
Itachi: "An impressive analysis, for having only seen it once"
Kakashi: "Itachi, how bad has your eyesight become?"


clearly he is shocked/surprised to hear this...
and, after a closeup shot of Kakashi's eyes we get

and you'll notice the bottom right hand corner of the screen, where there's obviously a "blind spot" added in. This is obviously on purpose, also comes immediately after they focus on Kakashi's Sharingan eye, and I thought of this as a POV shot from Kakashi's POV, and immediately followed by Itachi saying:

"Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..."

That shot is also done earlier, with the blind spot intact, before Kakashi removes his eye protector.

Rasengan Fansubs translated the same exchange with almost the exact same translation.

[RyougaZell]

Dattebayo translated it like this:
Kakashi (after flashback of Kisame and Itachi in Konoha): "Besides using a large amount of chakra, using that technique poses a huge risk to your eyes. Right, Itachi?"
Itachi: "An impressive analysis, for having only seen it once"
Kakashi: "Itachi, how bad has your eyesight become?"

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4...shockedhg1.jpg
clearly he is shocked/surprised to hear this...
and, after a closeup shot of Kakashi's eyes we get
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/5880/blindspotcv5.jpg
and you'll notice the bottom right hand corner of the screen, where there's obviously a "blind spot" added in. This is obviously on purpose, also comes immediately after they focus on Kakashi's Sharingan eye, and I thought of this as a POV shot from Kakashi's POV, and immediately followed by Itachi saying:

"Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..."

That shot is also done earlier, with the blind spot intact, before Kakashi removes his eye protector.

Rasengan Fansubs translated the same exchange with almost the exact same translation.

Hey Masa...
but... Kakashi's sharingan is on his left... so if that is his pov... then the blind spot you mention should be on the left of the screen. The darkened spot you mention here belongs to Kakashi's normal eye.