Zaraki Kenpachi's Zanpaktou: Shikai or not?

[DB_Hunter]

Since this is a contentious issue that has not been completely put to rest I am creating this thread. It will allow people to continue to discuss this topic without dragging episode specific threads off topic. Use the poll to allow everyone to get a quick summary of where people are leaning towards on this forum.

For my two cents, there are strong arguments on both sides. Yes, Kenpachi has said his sword is in unsealed state like Ichigo's. However, we know that even Ichigo could not unseal his swod despite his blade being chopped off until he found out its name.

So my official position is: I don't know.

[Turkish-S]

i say no.. but i think it will become a chainsaw!!! when the time is there.

[DeathscytheVII]

I say yes

1.) Shikai has already been established as an initial release, and bankai as the final. If the sword ain't sealed, then its in constant release, as Zaraki himself pointed out. So i would say it fulfills the first release requirement.

2.) His power forced the sword into release, and in DB's words, his zanpaktou has been 'violated' how else can you explain all that screaming we heard from his zanpaktou during his fight with ichigo

3.) I say its a shikai, but an incomplete one. He's in release but has no access to any higher level attacks. Similar to the way the arrancar says Hitsugaya's bankai is incomplete, only the incompleteness is impeding his attack strength. This is also like the example where even if Ichigo knew zangetsu's name, he still had no clue that he could do that spinning on the hilt attack that hollow ichigo had access to. So you can even argue that ichigo's shikai is incomplete.

[Assassin]

if kenpachi's sword is in a permenant shikai form then every other shinigami with a normal katana also has thier sword in permenant shikai.

The only reason ichigo started with a released form was cuz he didn't know how to restrict his reitsu. Kenpachi is not the same. he even has that eye patch wich lowers his reitsu all the time. If he had shikai, his sword wouldn't be a normal katana. Thats like the most basic element of a shikai, that it looks/does something different instead of just cutting. If its a beat up katana, then its not a shikai. Stop assuming things for no reason.

[mage]

It is not a shikai.

[animus]

It is not a shikai. He says he doesn't know it's name, and that's the big hint that it's NOT shikai. Ichigo's zanpaktou was just a huge katana, and until he learned the name of Zangetsu, he couldn't release. Though, it's in permanent shikai right now.

[Munsu]

if kenpachi's sword is in a permenant shikai form then every other shinigami with a normal katana also has thier sword in permenant shikai.

The only reason ichigo started with a released form was cuz he didn't know how to restrict his reitsu. Kenpachi is not the same. he even has that eye patch wich lowers his reitsu all the time. If he had shikai, his sword wouldn't be a normal katana. Thats like the most basic element of a shikai, that it looks/does something different instead of just cutting. If its a beat up katana, then its not a shikai. Stop assuming things for no reason.

No one is assuming here, you're the one assuming. The people that are saying that his sword is constantly released are using facts from the series. Ichigo's constantly released zanpakutou has nothing to do with him not being able to control his reiatsu, it simply the nature of his zanpakutou. And even if it has to do with him not being able to control it, there's nothing stopping Zaraki from doing the same, especially with the amount of reiatsu he has.



In the series, it has never been said that Kenpachi hasn't reached Shikai, but it has been said over and over how he doesn't have Bankai, there has to be a reason for the omission of saying that he doesn't have shikai if he indeed doesn't have it. Everything is pointing towards his zanpakutou being in the first release state.

[DB_Hunter]

Hang on there might be a loop hole there. Kenpachi is saying that HE hasn't put any seal on it because it won't be strong enough to contain his spirit pressure. Yet looking at all the other Shinigami the seal's on their swords are not put there by them, they are simply released by them once they know the name of the sword. It seems that maybe Kenpachi doesn't understand seals on Zanpaktou's, which is maybe why he has not been able draw upon the power of his sword so far.

[Munsu]

That can be also poor editing by the part of the releasing group. Ichigo said that his Zanpakutou being constantly released is the same as Kenpachi, and if it wasn't Yoruichi should've corrected him, but she didn't and that's the important part.

[DeathscytheVII]

f kenpachi's sword is in a permenant shikai form then every other shinigami with a normal katana also has thier sword in permenant shikai.

The only reason ichigo started with a released form was cuz he didn't know how to restrict his reitsu. Kenpachi is not the same. he even has that eye patch wich lowers his reitsu all the time. If he had shikai, his sword wouldn't be a normal katana. Thats like the most basic element of a shikai, that it looks/does something different instead of just cutting. If its a beat up katana, then its not a shikai. Stop assuming things for no reason.

kenpachi's sword ISN"t a normal katana, it has that beat up look to it. All sealed katana have that same clean blade at least. And there is grounds for what im saying, its all in the dialogue. Besides, as Munsu pointed out, no one has even stated that kenpachi isn't at shikai, they just say he can't reach bankai. Its implied that he's at shikai already.

Shikai is a release state, it doesnt matter if the sword doesn't look/does something different as long as its a release, then its a shikai. The crazy moves and higher level attacks come from mastering shikai.

Also there can be slight differences, just like how Ichigo's bankai looks like a normal zanpaktou, but black. Why can't kenpachi's be a little torn down? it certainly fits his persona. He also said it was the true form of his zanpaktou.

From wiki:

The initial release (始解, shikai?) is the first "upgraded" form available to a zanpakutō. To activate it, the shinigami needs to learn the name of their zanpakutō. This is not as simple as simply picking a name, as the living spirit of the zanpakutō chooses its own name. Therefore, the shinigami must be able to communicate with their zanpakutō effectively. Achievement of the initial release is a mark of expert control of a zanpakutō, and it appears to be a requirement for advancement within the shinigami ranks, as most seated officers and presumably all lieutenants are capable of the initial release.

After first learning the zanpakutō's name, the initial release can be performed at will simply by speaking a command followed by the zanpakutō's name. The command phrase varies between users and often relates to the zanpakutō's signature ability, or hints at the nature of its spirit. This step may be bypassed by expert shinigami, usually those who are at least approaching discovery of their final release. In rare cases, a zanpakutō, once released, will remain in that state and will not have a sealed state. Such zanpakutō are described as a full-time released form type.


These two forms, known as the initial release and the final release, are akin to "upgrades" for the zanpakutō, giving it abilities far beyond that of its simple use as a sword. Shinigami usually carry their zanpakutō in the sealed state and activate the released forms as necessary. Shinigami with zanpakutō of the constant-release type, such as Ichigo Kurosaki and Kenpachi Zaraki,[1] are unable to seal their zanpakutō and therefore carry them in released form constantly.

[mage]

Wikipedia isn't exactly a reputable source.

[NeoCybercoin]

Correct me if im wrong BUT all unsealed Zanpaktou have a greyish edge and a black back. In the Manga Zaraki's Zanpaktou has that like Munsu shown before. But I don't recall his Zanpaktou being like that in the anime.

There's no way that his Zanpaktou is Shikai. Even if it is a Full-Release type he still needs to know the name of it. And as he clearly stated when Ichigo beat him and he was with Yachiru on the roof. That he wanted to know his Zanpaktou's name.

[Assassin]

kenpachi's sword ISN"t a normal katana, it has that beat up look to it. All sealed katana have that same clean blade at least. And there is grounds for what im saying, its all in the dialogue. Besides, as Munsu pointed out, no one has even stated that kenpachi isn't at shikai, they just say he can't reach bankai. Its implied that he's at shikai already.

Shikai is a release state, it doesnt matter if the sword doesn't look/does something different as long as its a release, then its a shikai. The crazy moves and higher level attacks come from mastering shikai.

Also there can be slight differences, just like how Ichigo's bankai looks like a normal zanpaktou, but black. Why can't kenpachi's be a little torn down? it certainly fits his persona. He also said it was the true form of his zanpaktou.

From wiki:

1. his katana is beat up cuz he's been fighting all his life.

2. it does matter that the sword looks and does something different. so far, we haven't seen a single shikai that looked exactly like a normal katana, or that had no special ability. to say that its possible to have an unchanging shikai is going against everything we've seen so far. In addition, every shikai we've seen was activated by calling out the name, and we know that kenpachi doesn't know the name of his sword. Again, all evidence suggests that calling out the name is a requirement for shikai.

3. How does a torn down sword fit his persona? his persona is that of a monster with nearly infinite reatsu. it would fit his persona if his sword was more like ichigo's shikai, or ikkaku's bankai. Also, with ichigo's bankai, the black sword is a major attribute. Also, it was explain that the power of his bankai goes towards increasing his speed. Kenpachi has shown no such characteristics.

4. Him saying that its the swords true form doesnt mean much. It could just as easily be translated as "my swords only form"....which actually he says in the panel above anyway. If all he has is the very basic katana, then that beat up look would be called its "true form" by default. additionally, we know that the real "true form" is the essence of the soul cutter, like old man zangetsu for ichigo, or that babboon for renji...so the beat up katana cant be the true form in the real sense.

5. wiki's explanations are about as legitimate as any on this forum. nothing on there can be considered as proof of anything.

in the series, it has never been said that Kenpachi hasn't reached Shikai, but it has been said over and over how he doesn't have Bankai, there has to be a reason for the omission of saying that he doesn't have shikai if he indeed doesn't have it

It's been said over and over again that he doesn't have bankai because he's a captain, its its a known fact that to be a captain, a bankai is a requirement. The emphasis on the lack of a bankai is to show that he's strong as a captian even without one. The reason no one ever said that he doesn't have shikai is probably cuz the topic never came up. The only time we hear about his shikai/bankai is when he explains it to ichigo during the fight (where there is no evidence suggesting he has shikai), and when someone explained the 2 ways of becoming a captain.

[Munsu]

I think you missed the last picture I put on my post. Ichigo compares his constantly released zanpakutou to Kenpachi's, and that's all the evidence we need at the moment.

And you can't compare Kenpachi's situation to the "laws" as how they've been explained in Bleach, he's a unique character with unique circumstances. His zanpakutou is constantly released, now is he drawing the full power of that shikai? No, because he doesn't know the name of it. Just like Ichigo could use getsuga tenshou without knowing the name of Zangetsu, given it wasn't as powerful as when he finally learned the name and could actually control it.

[darkmetal505]

Kenpachi hasn't been fighting the longest out of everyone in SS. Sure, he puts more pressure and force into his strikes, but I hardly think that accounts for the serrated edges. Shinigami swords endure this wear and tear they are subjected to and seem to stay in good shape, and I don't find Kenpachi's to be any different. His sword might be stuck in an attempt to go shikai seeing as how Kenpachi does not know his Zanpaktou's name, but it doesn't look like an unreleased form.

[mage]

Kenpachi's sword is all busted up because he doesn't know how to tap into it's abilities. Normally, when a zanpakutou is damaged, it's able to heal itself like Ichigo's in his fight vs Kenpachi when it was cut in half. He doesn't even know its name, so it can't heal itself, much less be a shikai.

Even if it were a shikai, what difference would it make? All it does is cut like a normal sword.

[DeathscytheVII]

I know wiki is a questionable source at best, but i referenced it because it at least made a large number of footnotes from the manga itself and the official guidebook, which has stated that Kenpachi's zanpaktou is in a constantly released state, just like Ichigo's!

Bleach Official Character Book SOULs; page 258.

[Kraco]

Kenpachi's sword is all busted up because he doesn't know how to tap into it's abilities. Normally, when a zanpakutou is damaged, it's able to heal itself like Ichigo's in his fight vs Kenpachi when it was cut in half. He doesn't even know its name, so it can't heal itself, much less be a shikai.

Even if it were a shikai, what difference would it make? All it does is cut like a normal sword.

I don't know why Kenpachi's sword looks so worn. Sometimes I have thought it's because he doesn't know its name - but not so that it couldn't heal itself but rather as a sign of a protest. Zaraki has abused it for ages without bothering to know anything about it. However, it can heal itself just fine, because it was cut nicely in half in the final clash of Ichigo and Kenpachi. If it couldn't heal itself at all, Zaraki would have been fighting with a dagger for the rest of his days. But such wasn't his fate and later against Tousen it was just fine.

And we have no idea what is his zanpakutou's true power. While it could be in a contant released form one thing seems to be sure: It's not possible to use the actual shikai powers without knowing the name. It took Ichigo long enough to master his shikai even with knowing the name. Before that he just used it all the time like an unreleased zanpakutou.

[EpyonNext]

I'm failing to see whats the big deal here, Kenpachi has already stated that his sword is unsealed.

[mage]

However, it can heal itself just fine, because it was cut nicely in half in the final clash of Ichigo and Kenpachi. If it couldn't heal itself at all, Zaraki would have been fighting with a dagger for the rest of his days.

Kenpachi's sword wasn't cut in half or even damaged in that fight, Ichigo's was.