In the news today

[Carnage]

While I don't want to go so far as to say that not all drug gangs are the same, I think not all drug gangs are the same. If they just pedal drugs to feed a demand, that's one thing. But if they grow beyond drugs to terrorize and destabilize an entire country, then something needs to be done, even if it's by another drug gang. Let's hope a lot of badguys on both sides die.

I agree, and lets hope most of them are the Zatas.

[Kraco]

With the Mexican government being as impotent as it is to do anything to stop the worst offenders, it's given someone else will try. I don't really know much about Mexico, but my impression of them isn't that they would forever sit on their hands waiting to be slaughtered. Naturally the first ones to grab weapons are those who already have them, but others might be inspired and follow suit before long. I don't really see how it could turn the situation any worse in the long run, because it's clear the official ways have already depleted their meager resources and failed to come up with any solution satisfying the populace.

[Edort4]

Massive flows of weapons and ammunitions into the country from the north, helped by a huge drug market to the north, and corrupt authorities. Dont think that para-militarizing the situation will do any good, au contraire.

After seing a reduction to half of fire weapons crimes from 1990 to 2001 to 7 per 100.000, it has rised from 2001 to 2010 to 25 per 100.000. Im not to much into conspiracy theories but they should analize this situation in detail, there is more to it than just thousands of crazy guys with guns, its too complex to just sit down and wait for those guys to kill each other.

Anyways I hope we dont see any "intervention" in the near future, we all now how lucrative violence is for the supplier and there are a few with "funding" needs.

[Animeniax]

Look at the picture in the article, half the guys are carrying American made M16s with noob tubes. Probably part of the stash that was sent to Mexico as part of a DOJ sting... but the batteries on the tracking devices died.

OB-PW332_0928me_F_20110928192836.jpg

[Uchiha Barles]

What really needs to happen is that regular, non drug cartel citizens need to arm up and start blasting anyone who even smells like they might be part of zetas...for now, they don't need to do it to the other cartels, but they should be kept in check. You never know how a power vacuum resulting from a sudden absence of zetas might affect them and their behavior.

[Animeniax]

One professor at uni said Mexico is close to going bankrupt and then becoming a stateless country (no official government). The only good thing about this potential situation is that it would force the US government to finally do something to secure the border. Still would suck for average citizens (would no longer be a valid term in Mexico) in Mexico.

[XanBcoo]

What really needs to happen is that regular, non drug cartel citizens need to arm up and start blasting anyone who even smells like they might be part of zetas...for now, they don't need to do it to the other cartels, but they should be kept in check. You never know how a power vacuum resulting from a sudden absence of zetas might affect them and their behavior.

Or how about the easier option? Just legalizing the drugs that give them so much power through the black market.

[Animeniax]

Or how about the easier option? Just legalizing the drugs that give them so much power through the black market.

They'd find other criminal enterprises like sex trafficking or counterfeit Gucci shoes. Drugs just happen to be the most profitable enterprise at this point. I think the criminality is what defines these groups, not the commodity they happen to profit from. They're called "drug gangs" because they deal in drugs, but they could just as easily have been called "Gucci gangs" if they had made their name selling counterfeiting goods.

[Carnage]

It could very well be easier to arm the average mexican and let them go on a hunt for Zetas. Find one of them, torture him of everything he knows, find first Zeta hideout, capture/torture them for everything they know; rinse and repeat until all bases and drug members are either dead or captured. Theres gotta be at most several thousand gang members, and over 100 million citizens.

[The Heretic Azazel]

They'd find other criminal enterprises like sex trafficking or counterfeit Gucci shoes. Drugs just happen to be the most profitable enterprise at this point. I think the criminality is what defines these groups, not the commodity they happen to profit from. They're called "drug gangs" because they deal in drugs, but they could just as easily have been called "Gucci gangs" if they had made their name selling counterfeiting goods.

There isn't nearly as much demand in counterfeit goods or human trafficking as there is in illegal drugs. Their money is what defines them and resorting to other avenues of profit would likely make them unsustainable.

[Animeniax]

There isn't nearly as much demand in counterfeit goods or human trafficking as there is in illegal drugs. Their money is what defines them and resorting to other avenues of profit would likely make them unsustainable.

I think the brand manufacturers would disagree as to the amount of revenue lost and the Chinese have made a very lucrative black-market in counterfeit goods. Drugs are easier as a commodity than say human beings, and true the cartels would not be as large and powerful selling fake goods and people than drugs, but they'd still be around with their fingers in all sorts of crimes. The mafia and mobs of Italy and early America didn't deal in drugs and they made do.

[The Heretic Azazel]

America didn't have an insatiable need for drugs like it does now though. In China's case, where you can get the death sentence for drug possession, there isn't a big user culture there so they make money in counterfeit goods. Legalizing these drugs would not eliminate the cartels, but it would cripple them and cut down on the endless gang related violence in the streets of Mexico.

[XanBcoo]

I think the brand manufacturers would disagree as to the amount of revenue lost and the Chinese have made a very lucrative black-market in counterfeit goods. Drugs are easier as a commodity than say human beings, and true the cartels would not be as large and powerful selling fake goods and people than drugs, but they'd still be around with their fingers in all sorts of crimes. The mafia and mobs of Italy and early America didn't deal in drugs and they made do.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1017

Guess what happened to those statistics when prohibition ended.

We need to cut off their legs financially, not shoot them in the chest. I know it's easy to indulge in revenge fantasies and bloodlust when you read about Zetas skinning a woman alive and leaving her breasts nailed to a front door, but going out and introducing more violence to the situation only makes it more dangerous and complicated. When one Zeta leader is killed, another one takes his spot.

They are supported almost totally by the sale of drugs in the United States and we need to take that away from them. It's a solution that even in the worst case scenario cannot possibly make the situation worse - and we won't even consider it because I don't know why the fuck. "Morals" and "Values" or something like that.

[Y]

Full, controlled legalization of all recreational drugs in America is the only solution to the drug problem that Americans have created for the world.

[XanBcoo]

Unfortunately we are run by the kind of people who make decisions based on shaky moral arguments instead of practical solutions, and who are supported by constituents who are misinformed and easily frightened.

[Carnage]

Unfortunately we are run by the kind of people who make decisions based on shaky moral arguments instead of practical solutions, and who are supported by constituents who are misinformed and easily frightened.

What? Practicality has its roots in morals and judgement. That's why we decide things, because we have judgement and preferences. Morality is the basis for many people's preferences.

In terms of pure practicality, it could be just as easy to legalize drugs and regulate it as it is to hunt down the several thousand gang members and brutally murder them all. And if you want to say that is morally impractical, well guess what, then youre using "morals" to guide an opinion.

[Uchiha Barles]

Ah carnage...fitting name. I do understand the benefits of legalizing drugs and cutting off their legs financially. When I mentioned that the citizens should do is something, I should have said that is to be done in the absence of government intervention. While the government is either doing nothing, or taking its sweet time to do something, tits are getting posted on bulletin boards by the dozen. So yeah, let the government do whatever it's going to do to stop this. However, until they start effecting the lives of the people, let the people lay waste to any who'd terrorize the place they live in.

[XanBcoo]

In terms of pure practicality, it could be just as easy to legalize drugs and regulate it as it is to hunt down the several thousand gang members and brutally murder them all

How do you figure that?

I mean, just in terms of violence and lives lost, one option is clearly safer.

[Animeniax]

If the bad guys are willing to kill and die for one corrupt enterprise (drugs), if you remove drugs as an option, what makes you all think these guys will go get 8-to-5 jobs? They won't. They'll find other illegal activities to make a living. It may not be as profitable as drugs, but it still won't be for the betterment of society and their victims.

Like ending prohibition before it, legalizing drugs will alleviate a temporary problem, but it won't cure what ails humanity and society.

[Carnage]

How do you figure that?

I mean, just in terms of violence and lives lost, one option is clearly safer.

I mean that legalizing drugs there will still be an underground economy for them. Its not like cigarretes, where its difficult to grow tobacco. People can make these products in their homes and sell them for cheaper. Also, no matter what drug gangs wont go down without a fight. After already mercilessly killing people, what makes you think they wont try and scare others from not buying from the government/legal carriers?

Whereas arming the nation of 100 million (not everyone but imagine how many vigilantes you could rile up) to hunt down several thousand gang members...like I said, find one, torture him for information, move on to one base, then the next, badda bing badda boom. Although morals then come into the story.