In the news today

[Assertn]

I'm against it, though I wouldn't know about how it's used recreationally. I'm not buying "boosting the economy" as a reason, or an incentive to do so. Black markets exist for anything you can't get legally. Just because you can't stomp it out doesn't mean you should embrace it.

It would also significantly reduce crime and violence, but the government at least knows whats best for you, right?

Alcohol is worse than marijuana. Why is it legal? It's legal because of all the crime that occurred during the prohibition. Think about it.

[Kraco]

Over here the legislative tendency has been for a while to make even regular smoking harder and less desirable, so allowing new forms of smoking isn't really a hot topic of discussion, except for those individuals mostly outside of politics who would like it for personal reasons.

What comes to alcohol, the topic brings up a couple of aspects about laws in general: It's counter-productive to have laws impossible to enforce efficiently because it leads to people getting used to breaking laws without consequences and on the other hand for a democracy it's troublesome to have laws that a clear majority doesn't support.

Edit: Typo...

[XanBcoo]

I'm against it, though I wouldn't know about how it's used recreationally. I'm not buying "boosting the economy" as a reason, or an incentive to do so. Black markets exist for anything you can't get legally. Just because you can't stomp it out doesn't mean you should embrace it.

I've got no stake in the success of the bill because I don't smoke, but why is it something that needs to be stomped out? Why would you argue that it should be kept illegal?

Assertn mentioned the crime thing. Think about the effect it would have on prisons. How many people are in there because of drugs?

I'm against the legalization of weed for two reasons.

Your first reason is as good as any, but could you not extend the same argument to alcohol or tobacco? I don't like being around people who are completely wasted (though I do enjoy being drunk myself) and I hate hate hate the smell of smoke. Should beer and cigarettes be illegal because I don't like the effects it has on people? At least the legality of tobacco and alcohol means that their use can be regulated to some extent. That's why there are smoking bans in several cities and the reason people can't go waltzing down the street with a drink, rude and raunchy and completely sloshed.

It's counter-productive to have laws impossible to enforce efficiently

Good point. That line of reasoning is the same reason why things like "abstinence only" sex education are flawed. Trying to control something that can't be controlled is a wasted effort. Why not work with and around the reality of the situation?

[The Heretic Azazel]

What you have to realize is marijuana is already a driving economic force in areas of California like Mendocino County. There pot reportedly accounts for 75-90% of the economy and the growers generate somewhere around $1 billion every year.

Barles, there is no middle ground here because, as we all know, if the government is going to let us do something they have to make sure they get their hands in our pockets. Well if they're going to do that, at least it will be put to good use. That's the only reason it isn't legal. There is no, I repeat no valid argument against at least some reformation of marijuana laws. Politicians would rather lie to you about the situation than to admit that legalization could be used to drive our economy, to create jobs, to fund schools and improve our childrens' education (because we have the dumbest fucking kids walking the face of God's green Hell.) There is no shame in that in the least. In fact macro economically, it would go a long way to, as George Carlin would put it, balance the stupid fucking budget.

As Assertn said, the crime and violence would go down; most people would be growing their own. And you don't have to think of Obama as the President associated with drug use, it's common knowledge that all drugs are not the same (and the legal ones are the real killers.) Times change and he would do well to embrace them. This is supposed to be a progressive administration and I would love if they would just tell it like it is, instead of still catering to these unproven fears. He is already pissed at the DEA for raiding legal marijuana clinics in California, which they can do because federal interests conflict with state laws. people have voted for medical marijuana in California and apparently their say doesn't mean shit in the eyes of the DEA.

Barles do you not have an indoor smoking act in your state? No one should have to smell smoke if they don't want to. I find myself going to restaurants more often now.

[itadakimasu]

I'm 100% for legalizing and regulating marijuana in the united states. I'm actually going to do my persuasive speech for my speech class about legalization. Especially in our current financial crisis. Legalization would create jobs, rid the prisons and jails of people only in prison for marijuana ( millions of dollars per day to keep them all in prison ) and the tax from the sale of the marijuana could be a very helpful source of income for america.

The sale would be regulated, and thereby eliminate the possibility of people buying "laced weed"

It should be treated like alchol, open container and all. Police should still ticket any people openly smoking it in public, and take or dispose of their stuff just like they would probably make somebody poor out their beer for drinking in public.

We're in the year 2009 and its time for our lawmakers to realize this. We are not a church state, and somebody should be able to smoke marijuana in their home if they want to.

If Michael Phelps were photographed drinking a beer, would there be public outcry? sponsors cancelling his contracts? don't think so...
It bothers me how it is always termed Drugs and Alcohol, as if alcohol is a seperate category when it is a drug itself.

Anyhow : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7907483.stm

US to donate $900 million in gaza aid. Aren't we still giving israel money for being our friend? it doesn't make sense that we(america ) back israel, and then pay to repair the destruction from their attacks.... doesn't make any sense at all.

[Pandadice]

i thought something like this already happened somewhere? >.<.

i thought some state had it legal on a state level, but not on a federal level, so you still couldn't smoke it..

[Xelbair]

Is it true that Cannabis type that dosen't have hallucinogens in is is forbidden in us too?(it is used here commonly for making cheap ropes and securing pipes)

Think of Netherlands, they have it legal there and there are no problems in local population, but the biggest mess is being made by tourists.

[itadakimasu]

xelbair,

thats the strongest evidence for legalizing. Where it is legal, its not really abused by the local population. some people try to say that if it were legal in the US, usage would sky rocket.... i don't think it would go up very much.

[Uchiha Barles]

I'll be the first to admit that on the basis of harm it does relative to other drugs, including alcohol, there's no reason weed ought to be illegal. Also, I've no doubt that it would "help" the economy with giving the government another way to dip into your pockets yet again and spend the cash on shit you probably don't give a fuck about (btw, if I did smoke weed, that'd be my argument for not legalizing it).

My first reason against legalization is kind of silly in that it's only a "problem" when I'm hanging around people smoking. I can generally up and leave, but the other things happening make it a minor issue I'm willing to deal with. It's when I encounter it randomly while walking in a building, or out of an apartment, or past a bench hidden by trees and bushes while chasing a bunny. The no indoor smoking laws in my state get ignored by the people at a good deal of the places I frequent. Again, I'm not being super bitchy about this, just a little bitchy.

The second reason is...and I hate to sound like a fangirl because I didn't even vote for the guy, is that I kind of don't want Obama's presidency tainted....more than it's already going to be. This may sound stupid, and it probably is stupid, but the last thing I want to hear anyone say is "Change eh? Well good going, the nigger in the office WOULD be the one to legalize drugs."

[Buffalobiian]

I thought I'd refresh my knowledge on this, so I dug up some papers about Cannabis.

The effects of weed is comparable to that of alcohol, except chronic use will also lead to:

1) increased risk of psychiatric diseases
2) respiratory diseases associated with smoking
3) subtle forms of cognitive impairment, most particularly of attention and memory
4) modest cardiovascular risks

Also, I'm not sure what the word out there is, but cannabis IS addictive.

After reviewing this, I'm somewhat less against legalising it than I was before. In fact, right now I don't really give a damn what its legal standing is.

If there was a referendum here, my vote would still be a No. I think my main problem with this is that alcohol can be considered a beverage. You can go to the bar and have a drink without wanting to, nor physically getting drunk.

Prove me wrong, but the whole idea people to to smoke weed is to get high on it, is it not?

[Animeniax]

Marijuana is a gateway drug. Legalize it and you're going to have an epidemic of hardcore drug abuse on your hands. People need to find better ways to stimulate or depress themselves.

[Pandadice]

Marijuana is a gateway drug. Legalize it and you're going to have an epidemic of hardcore drug abuse on your hands. People need to find better ways to stimulate or depress themselves.

lol. even though it's actually never been proven to be a gateway drug... that's literally nothing more than anti-marijuana propaganda. people made it up to keep marijuana banned because it was more of a black persons drug. while alcohol, being a white person drug, was made legal..

[Animeniax]

Oh here we go with the race card. So marijuana is now a "black man's drug?". What a load of bs. And how do you "prove" marijuana is or is not a gateway drug? Do you hold polls and hope for legitimate responses from some wigged out pothead? The only reason people stop at marijuana is because the harder drugs cost too much.

[Dark Dragon]

lol. even though it's actually never been proven to be a gateway drug... that's literally nothing more than anti-marijuana propaganda. people made it up to keep marijuana banned because it was more of a black persons drug. while alcohol, being a white person drug, was made legal..

Yes lets pull race into this because the topic wasn't already controversial enough.

I am personally not for the legalization of marijuana. It's my personal belief that marijuana is not nearly as harmful as many people claim but the last thing we need right now is to add another harmful drug into the long list of addictive substances that are already available.

Deny all you want about marijuana being a gateway drug but the fact of the matter is that many people do not just start smoking stuff crack, quite a significant number of them start out with weed. It's pretty similar to how many people start with light alcohol and eventually move to stronger stuff. That isn't to say that smoking marijuana will automatically incite you to try stronger drugs, but to clearly state that there isn't a relation is also stretching the truth.

I do however believe that we need to decriminalize it, some of the punishment for owning or purchasing marijuana far out weight the "crime" in question.

Edit: I also forgot to mention that certain alcohol like red wine are actually beneficial to your health if it is taken sparingly on a regular basis. I've yet to see any actual positive benefit from getting stoned.

[itadakimasu]

i came home a little bit ago to find my neighbors from downstairs rolling a blunt on the steps leading to my apartment... hopefully he picks up the blunt guts when he's done.

if marijuana were legal, i don't think the gateway drug argument would hold as much water.

if there is better parenting than it will be less of a problem if kids learn about things like moderation.

*just a note, that the people rolling the blunt outside my apartment are black... not that it matters at all. i had a black friend who taught me how to roll blunts and now that I think about it.... that was a long time ago! jesus.... im getting old.*

If marijuana were legal, I would smoke every once in a while, just like how i only drink every once in a while.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Sorry to say Buff, your post is mainly what I talk about when it comes to drug war enthusiasts spreading falsehoods, which isn't surprising since it can be hard to find an unbiased argument on the subject online, at least without some kind of personal agenda. There is some truth, I have smoked almost everyday since I was 18 and it takes a little bit of training to retain my short-term memory, I tend to have to pay more attention to my surroundings than the next guy. On the other hand it really helps me to smoke before a test to alleviate anxiety (I have an awful habit of going blank before I take an exam.)

There is no link whatsoever to cardiovascular problems and respiratory problems are probably equal in tobacco, BUT if you smoke weed out of a vaporizer it filters the tars and toxins and gives you straight THC (which isn't dangerous as opposed to the other possible compounds in your herb) and vaping helps break up the crud in your lungs.

People consider marijuana a gateway drug for a couple of reasons: one is coincidental, there is no cause and effect. There are people who will always grow up to be junkies, and marijuana happens to be the first drug people use (especially when they start young). The other is pot dealers often dabble in other drugs, so if you're going to your man to get some herb and he happens to sell coke on the side, yeah you're going to be exposed to that element of the game. That's all the more reason to legalize, it cuts out a certain portion of the black market and people don't have to be around that sort of thing. The problem is people who don't mind smoking bud but want a different, more sustained high. If you have an addictive personality you're better off not doing anything at all.

Edit: I also forgot to mention that certain alcohol like red wine are actually beneficial to your health if it is taken sparingly on a regular basis. I've yet to see any actual positive benefit from getting stoned.

There's always an exception to the rule, no alcohol except red wine has any useful properties so it's kind of pointless to make that relation. However cannabis is all that will relieve the pain of many terminally ill patients across the country, and the DEA tried to take that away from them too.

And truthfully I too would rather have it decriminalized than legalized. The shit would be too expensive for me.

[Buffalobiian]

The "cardiovascular risk" was something taken from my lecture handout, as was all the other points. It wasn't elaborated on however, and I slept through that class anyway, so I can't go any further.

Prove me wrong, but the whole idea people smoke weed is to get high on it, is it not?

People need to find better ways to stimulate or depress themselves.

This is pretty much my biggest problem with it.

[darkshadow]

Marijuana is a gateway drug. Legalize it and you're going to have an epidemic of hardcore drug abuse on your hands. People need to find better ways to stimulate or depress themselves.

Its legalized here and there is no epidemic whatsoever, people who buy it just smoke it at home or the coffeeshop they got it from, there is also a smoking ban in effect almost everywhere, you can only smoke outdoors here now.
People here got better shit to do then stand around outside and smoke their weed, only people smoking(cigarettes) outside are the ones that are waiting for someone or are one a break from work.
Its the tourists that try the smoke all the weed they can in the least amount of time they can.

[Animeniax]

Its legalized here and there is no epidemic whatsoever, people who buy it just smoke it at home or the coffeeshop they got it from, there is also a smoking ban in effect almost everywhere, you can only smoke outdoors here now.
People here got better shit to do then stand around outside and smoke their weed, only people smoking(cigarettes) outside are the ones that are waiting for someone or are one a break from work.
Its the tourists that try the smoke all the weed they can in the least amount of time they can.

Yes but that's the Netherlands and this is the US. We also have problems with crime, obesity, and waste that you can't compete with.

[Mr Squiggles]

The only reason people stop at marijuana is because the harder drugs cost too much.

Or, you know, maybe because most marijuana smokers recognize the much more tangible and severe dangers of the harder drugs and so they choose not to do them. I'm not really sure what exactly makes you think that every pot smoker would take harder stuff if he could afford it.


As for the addiction thing, I'm sure some people do get addicted, but these are the same people incapable of self-control who get themselves addicted to extreme sports/adrenaline, porn, gambling, and videogames. My friend who has access to medical databases told me you need to smoke at least 5grams a day in order to be considered physically addicted to the stuff. I dont know if you guys realize how much that is, but you've got to be pretty god damn hardcore to smoke that much on a daily basis.

heres a pic i found on the webs for comparison

this is 3.5 grams. You need to smoke about 40% more than this every single day in order to be considered addicted

I've yet to meet a single pot-head who smokes that much.