In the news today

[Animeniax]

They are Chechens. HUGE difference. Apparently one too subtle for you to understand (though it shouldn't be). The Chechen Separatists weren't even Islamic radicals until the late 2000s, they were just nationalists.

The American Chechen refugee population despises these two. The Russians and Chechens hate these two. The general response from the average Russian interviewed as a result of this story considers them just some pathetic loser wackjobs who were lashing out because their life wasn't going their way. The two were from a different part of Russia (now Kyrgyzstan), one of them (the younger) never even visited Chechnya, and the other (the older) was quite vocal about his dissatisfaction at not making any friends in the US. That last part is far more in line with the regular pattern of domestic terrorism.

So yes, the Islamist Radicalist angle is a bit overzealous at this point, and is a bit bigoted. The brothers probably sought a connection with that as an excuse, rather than as their driving cause.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Chechen Separatist Movement hates these two, because they have brought the Russian Government's attention back on them.

Calm down Beavis. Chechnya is a part of Russia, and most media accounts I've read about the situation don't differentiate between the two, which illustrates that people don't care that there's a difference. It comes back to an "us vs them" scenario, nevermind that domestic terrorism is almost as common as foreign terrorism in the US.

If CNN is to be believed (questionable at best, admittedly) there is a definite connection between the brothers' actions and Chechen Muslim radicalism: http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/20/us/bro...age/index.html

Here's more information from HuffPo demonstrating a strong link between the brothers and their Islamic faith:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3116299.html

You make a lot of assumptions about their motivations, which I think is premature (and totally you). The older brother didn't have a lot of American friends because he couldn't understand them and their way of life/thinking. He wasn't just some loser/loner, he simply had a very different mindset/worldview that made it hard to associate with others who don't share those views.

"There are no values anymore," he observed, and "people can't control themselves."
Regarding friendships, Tamerlan, who had lived in the U.S. for five years, said, "I don't have a single American friend. I don't understand them."

Not only that, but it might make the world pay even less attention to the Chechnya situation, if a portion of people start to think Chechens deserve whatever Russia throws their way.

Maybe, but according to that report, authorities are looking at a connection between the Boston bombers and this Islamist terrorist group:

Imarat Kavkaz, which has its roots in the 1990s Chechen insurgency... was founded in 2007 to bring together various jihadist groups fighting to create an Islamic state in the region. The leader of Imarat Kavkaz is Doku Umarov, a veteran Chechen guerrilla who claimed responsibility for the the 2011 bombing of Moscow's international airport.

If that attack happened as recently as 2011, then I doubt they care how the world sees them or feels sympathy for their cause, they simply want to strike out at their enemies. Very similar to how other terrorist orgs conduct themselves.

[Kraco]

Maybe, but according to that report, authorities are looking at a connection between the Boston bombers and this Islamist terrorist group:
If that attack happened as recently as 2011, then I doubt they care how the world sees them or feels sympathy for their cause, they simply want to strike out at their enemies. Very similar to how other terrorist orgs conduct themselves.

I wasn't really talking about islamic terrorist groups. They want nothing but suffering on both sides: Suffiring on the enemy side makes the enemy lose morale, and suffering on their own side generates disillusioned young men ready to be used as fodder in their operations. However, at least in the past there were still opposition in Chechnya who weren't fundamentalists but rather nationalists. But maybe they are a dying breed and are replaced by hardcore islamists.

[Animeniax]

I wasn't really talking about islamic terrorist groups. They want nothing but suffering on both sides: Suffiring on the enemy side makes the enemy lose morale, and suffering on their own side generates disillusioned young men ready to be used as fodder in their operations. However, at least in the past there were still opposition in Chechnya who weren't fundamentalists but rather nationalists. But maybe they are a dying breed and are replaced by hardcore islamists.

From what I've read the Muslims are the driving force behind Chechen nationalism, so it's religious rule similar to other Islamic nations. I wouldn't say it's the same as places like North Ireland or even Taiwan, where nationalism is its own driving force in the separatist movements.

[Ryllharu]

Nice to see you never read my post even though you quoted it. The Chechens were nationalist separatists first. They've only recently (within the last ten years) become dominated by the more Islamic Radicals.

They wanted to leave Russia like all the other republics that left the USSR, and the Russian gov't didn't let them. It was not religious in nature for the first 15 years after the fall of the USSR. Of course, they've been rebelling pretty much since 1905.

[Animeniax]

Nice to see you never read my post even though you quoted it. The Chechens were nationalist separatists first. They've only recently (within the last ten years) become dominated by the more Islamic Radicals.

They wanted to leave Russia like all the other republics that left the USSR, and the Russian gov't didn't let them. It was not religious in nature for the first 15 years after the fall of the USSR. Of course, they've been rebelling pretty much since 1905.

I read it and it has little to do with my original post about Muslims in Chechnya or with the brothers or their reasons for bombing the marathon. People were calling racism for associating the bombings with Islamic terrorism based on the fact that the suspects were Russian, not Middle Eastern. But as I stated, there is Islamic fundamentalism in Russia, so this latest attack certainly has Islamic terrorist roots. The Chechen struggle to be free from Russia has little if nothing to do with the brothers' attack on the US.

[Ryllharu]

So wait, you're complaining that people (the "PC crowd" in your words) are wrong for calling other people racist when they're trying to blame this on Muslims? On the sole basis that there are Muslims within Russia, you're saying that makes it okay to be racist and blame it on Muslims.

Got it.

:shakes head:

[Animeniax]

So wait, you're complaining that people (the "PC crowd" in your words) are wrong for calling other people racist when they're trying to blame this on Muslims? On the sole basis that there are Muslims within Russia, you're saying that makes it okay to be racist and blame it on Muslims.

Got it.

:shakes head:

Wow you just can't admit defeat can you. There are definite ties between the bombers and Islamic fundamentalism, and disregarding these ties because "they're Russian, not Middle Easterners" is foolish because there are Islamic radicals in Russia, namely Chechnya, where these guys are from. Further research has shown and will elaborate on the connection. I'm surprised you haven't learned this from Fox News already.

:bitch slaps Ryll on face:

[Kraco]

Some experts say that Al Qaida has already lost so much from it's core staff and leadership that it has become more of an ideology than a real organization. In the end it hardly matters if a person residing in a Western country and wanting to perform a terrorist attack has ever even spoken face to face with a real islamist. It's enough the person has read and heard enough of the radical movement to want to be a part of it, or even just to use it as an excuse. After all, the end result is no different: The person will execute a villainous act, likely dying or getting captured during it or shortly after. It's not like some firebrand preacher having wasted his time blathering about paradise and a score of virgins in afterlife to the candidate would make any difference when the bomb is set off. And that's all the terrorist organizations would ask of these youths: that they kill as many enemies as possible, sacrificing themselves in the process. It doesn't require years of training and conditioning in some backwards country out there.

[Carnage]

I'm surprised you haven't learned this from Fox News already.

Well now we know you're trolling.

[Edort4]

I dont have the news link in english but they are starting to say that he wasnt the best muslim out there. Dzhojar would get wasted 3 days a week in parties, never pray and act like almost any other teen his age alleges some guy called Zach Bettencourt wich he meet at the college. His college ID puts him several times in the campus after the bombings and the night before the persecution he went to a party.

Also some reports say that the suspect they have under custody had suffered damge in his throat and that he can barely speak.

Dunno dont sound like a fundamentalist to me. Also what the hell was that about a drill (about bombs) taking place at the same time of the bombing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=J5xKtuif5-c

ps: dont respond saying taqiyya

[Animeniax]

Well now we know you're trolling.

Nah, I added that to rub it in because he refuses to concede the likely truth. I don't watch Fox news but I imagine they've thoroughly explored the Islamic connection to the bombing. I have to watch the Daily Show/Colbert to find out what Fox says about stuff and I'm behind on my DVR recordings.

I dont have the news link in english but they are starting to say that he wasnt the best muslim out there. Dzhojar would get wasted 3 days a week in parties, never pray and act like almost any other teen his age alleges some guy called Zach Bettencourt wich he meet at the college. His college ID puts him several times in the campus after the bombings and the night before the persecution he went to a party.

Also some reports say that the suspect they have under custody had suffered damge in his throat and that he can barely speak.

Dunno dont sound like a fundamentalist to me. Also what the hell was that about a drill (about bombs) taking place at the same time of the bombing?

The younger brother may not have been as committed to the cause, but older brother definitely was. He got his gf to convert to Islam before marrying her, and prayed 5 times a day in the months leading up to the attack. And we know how often an older brother has recruited his kid brother to do some crazy shit.

[Ryllharu]

Wow you just can't admit defeat can you. There are definite ties between the bombers and Islamic fundamentalism, and disregarding these ties because "they're Russian, not Middle Easterners" is foolish because there are Islamic radicals in Russia, namely Chechnya, where these guys are from. Further research has shown and will elaborate on the connection. I'm surprised you haven't learned this from Fox News already.

You didn't mention their ties to Islamic fundamentalism (which indeed there is ample evidence to support, like the elder brother's youtube channel). Not ONCE in this thread until now.

Your retort to the "PC crowd" was that Because Muslims Exist in Russia, it is okay to place the blame on the fact that they were Muslims. That's straight-up bullshit.

But the brother was very much into boxing, and had to quit after he was found beating someone outside of the ring. His violent tendencies only continued from there. It's pretty easy to say the blame isn't entirely on any radical islamic tendencies.

Additional fun fact, the leadership of the militant fundamentalist Islamic force in Chechnya has said that these two are not connected to them at all, has never had contact with them, and that their organization's fight is with Russia, not the US. Pretty much a formal denouncement of the actions by these two if there ever was one.

[Animeniax]

You didn't mention their ties to Islamic fundamentalism (which indeed there is ample evidence to support, like the elder brother's youtube channel). Not ONCE in this thread until now.

Your retort to the "PC crowd" was that Because Muslims Exist in Russia, it is okay to place the blame on the fact that they were Muslims. That's straight-up bullshit.

But the brother was very much into boxing, and had to quit after he was found beating someone outside of the ring. His violent tendencies only continued from there. It's pretty easy to say the blame isn't entirely on any radical islamic tendencies.

Additional fun fact, the leadership of the militant fundamentalist Islamic force in Chechnya has said that these two are not connected to them at all, has never had contact with them, and that their organization's fight is with Russia, not the US. Pretty much a formal denouncement of the actions by these two if there ever was one.

Yeah, except for in my second post on the subject: http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread...l=1#post528567 where I stated, "there is a definite connection between the brothers' actions and Chechen Muslim radicalism."

[Ryllharu]

Yeah, except for in my second post on the subject: http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread...l=1#post528567 where I stated, "there is a definite connection between the brothers' actions and Chechen Muslim radicalism."

Your own words (emphasis mine): "If CNN is to be believed (questionable at best, admittedly)..."

Come on, we both know better than to believe the network famous for how often they fail, and given the statement I make above about the Chechen Radical Muslims...still bullshit. This is the same network that reported the Lord and Taylor camera captured an image of a "dark male" [LIE] and that an arrest had been made [LIE].

They have no connection to the Chechen insurgency.

[Animeniax]

Your own words (emphasis mine): "If CNN is to be believed (questionable at best, admittedly)..."

Come on, we both know better than to believe the network famous for how often they fail, and given the statement I make above about the Chechen Radical Muslims...still bullshit. This is the same network that reported the Lord and Taylor camera captured an image of a "dark male" [LIE] and that an arrest had been made [LIE].

They have no connection to the Chechen insurgency.

I was playing into the Daily Show lambasting of CNN, but other outlets like HuffPo and the Daily Mail (UK) have also confirmed the link between the brothers and Chechen muslim radicalism. Maybe if you tried other sources for news besides Fox, you'd see that real journalism tries to support its claims with fact, instead of just yelling.

The Chechen insurgency is/was originally more about nationalism, but more recently it's been about Islamic fundamentalism. So the brothers' terrorist attack most certainly has ties to Chechen Islamic radicalism.

[Ryllharu]

I was playing into the Daily Show lambasting of CNN, but other outlets like HuffPo and the Daily Mail (UK) have also confirmed the link between the brothers and Chechen muslim radicalism. Maybe if you tried other sources for news besides Fox, you'd see that real journalism tries to support its claims with fact, instead of just yelling.

The Chechen insurgency is/was originally more about nationalism, but more recently it's been about Islamic fundamentalism. So the brothers' terrorist attack most certainly has ties to Chechen Islamic radicalism.

Oh...but too bad you're full of shit. The DailyFail...really? They're worse than FoxNews, by an order of magnitude. It's a fucking tabloid. Rupert Murdock's UK tabloid was more respected that the DailyMail, and News of the World got canceled due to a scandal involving hacking a dead girl's voicemail. Look at their website right now. Top stories: Kim Kardashian's wardrobe today! and she hosted a CrAzY party. Tragedy of 'healthy' Italian student, 23, who died hours after getting a Tattoo. Ooo, the Femail section sidebar, which is all gossip rag shit. You just proved you have no idea what's going on in the world. HuffPo isn't a whole lot better, just less celebrity gossip. Note I said less, not none, because they have a whole topic on the Kardashians, updated daily! O.M.G. the latest news I'm so concerned about!!!


Like I've been saying: Caucasus Emirate, considered terrorists by both Russia, the US, and the UN, denies involvement with the Boston attack and any and all connection with the Tsarnaevs brothers. [Second source link.] Doesn't completely absolve them, but better than random speculation by a conservative gossip rag and and a liberal blog that just copies whatever CNN or AP articles are out there.

[Animeniax]

What'd I say about yelling to make your point? Still doesn't make you right, Bill O'Ryllharu.

[Animeniax]

Holy fuck what is wrong with the world?? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...448641330.html

Markets dropped with the DJIA dropping 145 pts in 2 minutes after a fake tweet said the White House had been bombed and President Obama was injured.

[Ryllharu]

Because Twitter is a fucking retarded way to gather information.

Thanks CNN, for making it fashionable, and thanks all other media, for always shamelessly copying the AP instead of doing your own damn legwork. Hard to corroborate stories when they all use either the AP or Reuters.

Personally, I thought it was funny as hell, proving that IT security at the AP a POS (the cause was a "well-crafted" phishing email), and Twitter is aptly named.

The market goes crazy all the time. Blame micro-second transactions causing invariable cascades just like this. It's all automated. Don't you remember that "rogue algorithm" that caused the market to tank several months ago?

[Animeniax]

CNN is having a caption contest for this photo because they have no idea what prompted the President and former first lady to make these faces:

130425135314-obama-barbara-bush-story-top.jpg

CNN: where news is sourced from online asshats making witty comments.