That was a confusing read since both the paper and the mayor are named Bloomberg. I wonder about the truth of claims that homeless and street youth were moving into these encampments and causing trouble. Sounds like it could be bureaucratic seeds of dissent and justification for breaking up the OWS protest. Of course, the criminal element tends to creep into any human dealings so it may be true.Originally Posted by rockmanj
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
There are probably elements of both, but I question anything that just quotes "officials". It kind of reeks of the people in power making shit up. I hate to say this, but twitter is giving a lot of insight into what is really going on with these movements. It does not seem like there were any serious problems (although I did read about the police sending drunks to the occupied sites to cause trouble). The 'officials" would likely say otherwise.
Fetid "living" conditions, nearby business owners furious that their bathrooms are being occupied and trashed (because I'm sure the protesters made sure they were paying customers instead of walking in, taking a shit, and walking right back out </sarcasm>), many rumors (more than one city too) of protest leadership discouraging women from reporting sexual assaults and rapes, long-term homeless people "joining" the movements, drug dealers frequenting the encampments (this one is by far the most likely to actually be occurring given the demographic of the protesters).
I'm all for the crackdowns. That park needed to get cleaned.
These are the same bunch of morons who tried to set up generators before the fire department and police took them away from them. It's not even a matter of, "boo hoo, elitist entitled hipsters wanna charge their macbooks and ipods." It's a matter of Carbon Monoxide is denser than air. It spreads along the ground, which the protesters happen to be sleeping on. I'd be surprised if any of the protesters even knew the inherent dangers of operating a generator, much less how to actually run one. That's how people die.
Tactically, the way the police removed them was a stroke of genius. They avoided a lot more personal harm and damage that could have occurred had they done it any differently.
Why was it done at 1am? Because protesters are sleeping, groggy, or incredibly drowsy from staying up all night. That's safer for the police, and a lot safer for the protesters.
Why was the media barred from entering or flying over? Again, safety. Safety for members of the media, likely to get caught up in things should they turn violent. The side effect of media coverage is that anarchists not connected with the movement are more likely to show up and start a riot, partly for the attention (especially with media coverage).
The whole movement is starting to have public opinion turn against them. A large part of this is their ridiculous demands (85% of which equates to "free money, free entitlements for all!"). The other is that they are doing all of this wrong.
What they should be doing: Wake up. Walk to gathering site, start protesting. Eat lunch at a local business. Resume protesting. Go home when it gets dark. Take a shower. Eat a nutritious dinner. Sleep in a warm bed. Repeat.
What they are doing: Having a free for all, denying other citizens the use of a public space, camping illegally (camping in a municipal park is illegal pretty much everywhere in the US), and then whining when they are about to get arrested, or temporarily (a fact that was conveyed to them multiple times for more than a month) removed for their own health and safety.
Getting arrested for a silly reason is the primary goal of a sit in. That's the part that gets you sympathy and attention. Acting civilly and getting arrested for it is how you get things to change. Whining, crying and (often violently) resisting arrest and removal doesn't help anyone. The police are just doing their job.
Sounds like he's going into hiding. Was he sick recently or something?
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
He's been on the verge of death for the past few years.
"Leaving hell is not the same as entering it." - Tierce Japhrimel
He has been in poor health and had strokes in the past few months. I am not sure how much will change over there, as the country was being run by military leaders (many of whom were related to him).
If only Hitch could have hung on for two or three more days ...
But yeah, realistically, just because the Dear Leader is dead doesn't mean that his successor will be any less of a bastard. Only time will tell. Nevertheless, it's at least a chance for a reboot of DPRK diplomacy... we live in interesting times.
Maybe if the successor was any less of a bastard, there'd be internal power struggle among the generals, creating instability in the country. However, since North Koreans show zilch will to rebel, it'd still be no good. That nation is doomed for eternity unless another world war happens and it's dragged in.
You are correct; they have no will to rebel because they are literally starving to death and in the dark. Their former head of state even claimed that it would be acceptable for 70% of the population to go and it would not bother him. I am not guessing his son will be much different, but we will see. I remain very cynical.
Shame he lasted so much. I wonder who will be the new Evil who is responsible of all the misery in the world.
The path of excess leads to the tower of wisdom
/waits for America to invade under War on Something banner.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
They've been phasing in his son, Kim Jong-un for a while. He's basically been raised for this day.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
Maybe the new guy will open the borders so the people starving to death can finally escape...
"Leaving hell is not the same as entering it." - Tierce Japhrimel
This is apropos:
fP1w0.jpg
“For God will not permit that we shall know what is to come... those who by some sorcery or by some dream might come to pierce the veil that lies so darkly over all that is before them may serve by just that vision to cause that God should wrench the world from its heading and set it upon another course altogether and then where stands the sorcerer? Where the dreamer and his dream?”
Nobody knows much about Kim Jong Un, except that he is very chubby. I doubt the borders will magically open; the people running the country have been doing so for a while.
Last edited by rockmanj; Mon, 12-19-2011 at 01:24 PM.
Kim Jong-Un was raised in the West so that gives me a morsel of hope.
There's nothing magical about it. Kim Jong-Il didn't even officially engage in the role of "great leader" until after three years of mourning for his father Kim Il-sung.
My worry is about what the US government will do to "help" if NK shows any sign of weakness.
Last edited by Sapphire; Mon, 12-19-2011 at 03:06 PM.
"Leaving hell is not the same as entering it." - Tierce Japhrimel
The US has problems of its own and with the elections coming up doubt anyone will be doing anything to cause a public out lash. The people don't really have a favorable opinion of North Korean (at least that what I believe).
Also it's not just one man that has North Korean so, it's the way their society is. From what I have seen from documentaries and talking to people from North Korea and South Korea, the North citizens are basically brainwash and isolated from any knowing of what is really happening and how the world and their neighbors view them. All they know is that their government tells them. Just because Kim Jong Il died doesn't mean the propaganda machine isn't in full swing.
With the US and South Korean stoppage of aid to North Korean the country has worsen dramatically.
That attack to the South Korean exercise was both a cry for help and to fuel the propaganda machine. To their people it says we are not afraid and are not weak. To the world it said we're a big baby and if you don't help us we will act out, even Russia and China are tired of them.
We do live in interesting times but the future doesn't look so bright anywhere. Oh well life goes on.
___---------------------------- "THE DROPOUT CREW"--------------------------------________Deblas, IfingHateTonTon, RyougaZell, dragonrage.________
________ we may fuck up alot but we always pull thru.
It was amusing that China used some very diplomatic words to describe the near-term future.
In other words, "North Korea: While we're friends, and you're entering turbulence right now, do not mess with the status quo of the region. We wouldn't like a new war right on our doorstep, threatening our trade and growth."Following news of Kim Jong-il's death, the Chinese foreign ministry spokesman said the two countries would continue to protect "peace and stability".
Hah.. sounds like China all those years ago.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
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