What Kind of Menos Were the Espada?

[big_ac]

So we know that there was only one gillian (the noveno espada) and that the rest are either adjuchas or vastorode, but the question now is, who are the vastorodes? I have a strong suspicion that Ulquiorra is, mainly becuase he carries himself like a very powerful individual, we have yet to see him exercise really any power, and the piece of his mask that remains:
In chapter 197, when Hitsugaya describes the three hollow classifications, the picture that it shows for the vastorode appears to have a complete version of Ulquiorra's broken mask, complete with horns and that layered, ridge-look down the side of the head



We have seen, or will soon see, the abilities of Zaerapollo, Noitora, and Yammy as well as the eyepatch guy (whos name I don't remember). Where does everybody think they used to rank in the Menos hierarchy, along with the rest of the Espada?

[Munsu]

I think Ulquiorra is the only Vast Lorde type so far. All the others should be Adjuchas, except for that lone Gillian.

[Konohamaru]

I doubt it, when he went to the human world with yami to find ichigo, he mentioned something about hollow ichigo's powers going up and down during the mini fight saying ichigo's powers surpassed his at certain points in the fight. Something like that.

[Death BOO Z]

well, aren't his powers limited when he's going into the human world?
the shinigami's powers are greatly reduced when they reach out (they have only 1/5 of their powers), maybe hollows are the same?

[bagandscalpel]

well, aren't his powers limited when he's going into the human world?
the shinigami's powers are greatly reduced when they reach out (they have only 1/5 of their powers), maybe hollows are the same?

No, hollows do not feel the need to preserve the balance of the natural world, unlike the shinigami, and thus they have no limiters.

[Munsu]

That's not what he meant... he meant that being on Earth alone already limits their powers, just like Shinigamis are stronger in Soul Society. That's why Chad became stronger in Hueco Mundo, since his powers are of Hollow nature.

Even so it's not important, since Shinigamis and Hollows suffer from the same thing.

Anyways, there's nothing strange about Ichigo having a higher reiatsu than Ulquiorra, he's a Visored after all, and most importantly Ichigo's reiatsu fluctuated alot so it's not like he can keep it that way constantly. Also, we don't know if that statement included Ulquiorra in his released and/or final form.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

That's not what he meant... he meant that being on Earth alone already limits their powers, just like Shinigamis are stronger in Soul Society. That's why Chad became stronger in Hueco Mundo, since his powers are of Hollow nature.

Which is odd because didnt they say that Chad and big boobs got their powers from Ichigo's powers leaking out? Could that mean that Ichigo had some Hollow in him all along? Who knows?

[Munsu]

Well we don't know the extent of what "powers leaking out" do. For all we know it's simply a trigger to awaken a power within the characters... Else you're implying that Ichigo should have fairies and the power of annullation just as Inoue.

[Dark Dragon]

Maybe it is implied that Vaizard is stronger than Arrancars. Tousen easily took off one of Grimjow arm and i'm pretty sure Grimjow is a Vasto Lorde base on hitsugaya description. The Vaizard group that trained Ichigo for some reason just seem to be alot stronger than the Espadas we've seen so far to me, it might be my imagination though.

[Munsu]

I don't know... I myself think Grimjow is an Adjuchas. He's too hasty and I guess not as smart as some of the other Espadas. He also seemed quite taller than Ichigo and the other humans.

But I agree with your Visored statement... they do seem more stronger than the Espadas we've seen so far.

[big_ac]

Well, we've only seen Hirako fight an Espada, and he had to put his mask on to do it. As far as I know, thats as high as a vaizard goes unless they can also release their zanpakutou.

So, for the sake of argument, we assume that a masked vaizard is at max power. Shinji went FULL STRENGTH to fight the SIXTH rank Espada. Yes, he did solidly own him, but Grimmjow didn't even release his zanpaktou. We haven't even seen an Espada release his or her blade, with the exception of Arroniero Arliero who was pathetically weak.

Basically what I'm saying is WE DON'T KNOW HOW STRONG THE ESPADA REALLY ARE! We have yet to see even one fight to the full extent of their power, and, while the vaizard no doubt also have some sort of ace in the hole, they've already revealed a lot more of their power than the remaining Espada have.

[animus]

Maybe it is implied that Vaizard is stronger than Arrancars. Tousen easily took off one of Grimjow arm and i'm pretty sure Grimjow is a Vasto Lorde base on hitsugaya description. The Vaizard group that trained Ichigo for some reason just seem to be alot stronger than the Espadas we've seen so far to me, it might be my imagination though.

Isn't "Vaizard is stronger than Arrancars." like an Oxymoron or something? Since Arrancar is the broader category of hollow's who have taken/ripped off their masks to gain shinigami bodies/powers or whatever, and a Vaizard is an arrancar no matter what? Maybe it's just my misconception.

[Munsu]

Even though we haven't seen any sort of hierarchy with the Visoreds, they surely should vary in strength just like Shinigamis and Arrancars among their ranks. Hirako is probably one if not the strongest Visored we've seen so, there's nothing surprising that he was stronger than Grimjow...

[Rickbee]

Well, we've only seen Hirako fight an Espada, and he had to put his mask on to do it. As far as I know, thats as high as a vaizard goes unless they can also release their zanpakutou

Without even thinking about it u would believe that the Vaizard can release there Zanpakutou since they were able to in the first place. I also believe that Grimjow was a rank 2 menos as was stated before he is to quick to act and cocky.

[Dark Dragon]

Isn't "Vaizard is stronger than Arrancars." like an Oxymoron or something? Since Arrancar is the broader category of hollow's who have taken/ripped off their masks to gain shinigami bodies/powers or whatever, and a Vaizard is an arrancar no matter what? Maybe it's just my misconception.

I thought that Arrancars are hollows that gain Shinigami powers and Vaizard are Shinigami that somehow obtain Hollow powers (Ichigo for example), so even though both are techniquely at the same place that doesn't mean they are the same. I think are you confusing Vaizards with Espadas.

I dunno about Grimjow being rank 2, that might just be his personality. If anything i would think that Yami is the only revealed Rank 2 among the Espadas because he fit the description more, Bulky and Tall are 2 very different thing.

[NeoCybercoin]

Well atleast we know that all Espada are Adjuchas. The only ones who are Vasto Lorde are Ulquioria and that old guy. That's what I think anyway.

[Munsu]

Well, watching the new Bleach episode, Grimmjow didn't seem as tall as I thought he would be, so I think he may very well be a Vastolorde.

But I think the description given to us about Adjuchas and Vastolorde can't be taken that seriously, clearly Kubo is taking a lot of liberties with the character designs.

[dimitris127]

i would like to add something on the Grimjow VS Hirako...if i recall correctly hirako didn't release his sword either...and even more hirako might have bankai...so there is no way to tell how would the fight end up if those two fought each other in full strength...but i wold vote for hirako...

[Splash!]

If Ulquiorra is indeed a Vastolorde as all signs seem to indicate, that would mean that there are at least 4 Vastolordes with in the ranks of the espada from recent developments in the manga. Unless of course, there is some possbility of a Gillian or Adjuchas arrancaar being stronger than Vastolorde one, which i believe is highly unlikely.

Also, i think Munsu is right about Kubo being off on the character designs. If we went simply by human looking and human sized, then Zaera Pollo would also count as a Vastolorde. But that would mean there are at least 8 of them in the Espada already. I believe thats too high of a number, especially considering #9 was a Gillian

[Assassin]

i think only the top 4 espada are vastolords, mainly cuz ulq fits the description, and has shown an insane amount of power, without even going to his released form. Grimjoww on the other hand, while strong, couldn't do what ulq did to ichigo.....he was even mildly hurt by the black tenshou whatever that ichigo threw at him during thier original fight. This leads me to believe that grimjoww and ulq are on different levels. Theres also the possibility that the 5th espada is a vastolorde, making grimjow the strongest adjhuca......it would explain why he's so cocky and shit.