What Kind of Menos Were the Espada?

[NeoCybercoin]

Everybody is talking about the sizes of the Arrancar but sizes only matter when they are still in HOLLOW form. When they became Arrancar turned gained normal humans sizes. Besides Yami. But Yirobou (or whatever his name is) is a Shinigami who is like what? 3 to 4 meters tall?

[thedauntlessone]

I think all the Espadas right now are Ajuchas. In episode 122 Aizen specifically said they need to gather the Vasto Lordes AND perfect the Espada, meaning the Hougyoku is not fully matured so the arranacars (Espadas in particular) are not flawless products. I doubt Aizen would use something as valuable as a Vasto Lorde to do experiments.

As for the picture of the Vasto Lorde resembling Ulquiorra, it just probably means they used a picture readily available to represent the class. Even humans have different heights and sizes, so I doubt Vasto Lordes will all be the same size and shape.

I also want to note that Vaizards seem to be more powerful than Espadas in general. The Super Hiyori Walker basically tests how much spirit power a person has. When the green hair lady walked in, she was surprised Ichigo was still on it. I'm guessing every vizard have similar amount of spirit power as Ichigo. Also they seem to have MUCH MORE finesse than Ichigo. Considering how weak number 8, 9 and 10 are, Vizards should have no problem beating someone like Ulquiorra.

And about the Grimmjow fight with Hirako, the reason why Hirako wanted to finish him off quickly is because he knows he has a released form. Killing him off ASAP is strategy, not because Grimmjow is stronger.

Dont double post

[animus]

Are you serious? They'd get eaten alive by the upper echelon of the Espada in my opinion. They're all the same position as Ichigo. They might be stronget than Ichigo, but I don't think they can touch Ulquiorra and up.

[Yukimura]

I'm not convinced of that, from Ulqi's first description if Ichigo were to gain full control of his power he would be stronger than Ulqi. I would assume that a perfected Ichigo should not be stronger than all the Vaizards. After he manages to take down some Espada and save Orihime we should eventually see some evidence of the power of the other Vaizards without them interfering with Ichigo's protected status as best anit-villian character.

Since this is a shounen hero story Ichigo is by definition stronger than everything except his own current limitations including any strong allies (It all works out since anyone a strong ally can beat Ichigo is assumed to be able to have beaten even if it seems obvious Ichigo can't beat that strong good guy (i.e Yoro/Ura vs Yami).

[thedauntlessone]

Are you serious? They'd get eaten alive by the upper echelon of the Espada in my opinion. They're all the same position as Ichigo. They might be stronget than Ichigo, but I don't think they can touch Ulquiorra and up.

They are not in the same position as Ichigo. How can you compare a group of people who have mastered using their hollow masks to Ichigo, someone who can't even keep his mask on for more than 10 seconds? Remember when Ulquiorra first meets Ichigo he said his power is jumping HIGHER than his own? In a recent chapter, it shows Ichigo nowhere near powerful enough to take on Ulquiorra even with the hollow mask. Thats proof enough that Ichigo doesn't use his hollow mask at maximum potential. Furthermore, since a Vaizard were once shinigami, we can only assume they have shikai/bankai, which makes them that much more powerful.

Next time back up what you want to say.

[animus]

They are not in the same position as Ichigo. How can you compare a group of people who have mastered using their hollow masks to Ichigo, someone who can't even keep his mask on for more than 10 seconds? Remember when Ulquiorra first meets Ichigo he said his power is jumping HIGHER than his own? In a recent chapter, it shows Ichigo nowhere near powerful enough to take on Ulquiorra even with the hollow mask. Thats proof enough that Ichigo doesn't use his hollow mask at maximum potential. Furthermore, since a Vaizard were once shinigami, we can only assume they have shikai/bankai, which makes them that much more powerful.

Next time back up what you want to say.

Ulquiorra took Ichigo's Bankai + Hollow form Getsuga Tenshou, his most powerful move with one hand, completely unfazed. Do you really think him keeping the form up for longer would put him in a better position? Ichigo then took a Cielo blast, and defended himself a split second by activating his mask, and still got rawly decimated. There is no proof just how powerful the Vaizards are. Lastly, there is no proof that Vaizard's were once shinigami. Next time back up what you want to say.

[thedauntlessone]

Ulquiorra took Ichigo's Bankai + Hollow form Getsuga Tenshou, his most powerful move with one hand, completely unfazed. Do you really think him keeping the form up for longer would put him in a better position? Ichigo then took a Cielo blast, and defended himself a split second by activating his mask, and still got rawly decimated. There is no proof just how powerful the Vaizards are. Lastly, there is no proof that Vaizard's were once shinigami. Next time back up what you want to say.

Have you actually read what I wrote? When Ulquiorra first met Ichigo, he himself said Ichigo's power was jumping ABOVE HIS OWN. And by definition, Vaizard is a Shinigami who gained hollow powers.

EDIT: And you just proved my point. Ichigo with Bankai and hollow mask didn't even faze Ulquiorra in the recent chapter, but Ulquiorra stated himself that Ichigo's power jumped ABOVE his at times when they first met (when the hollow tried to take over Ichigo when he was fighting Yami). So why is it that Ichigo's power is lower than Ulquiorra's? We don't know yet, but from what I can tell, it's probably because he hasn't mastered using his hollow powers and there is still untapped power for him to use.

In other words you lose.

[Prof. Chaos]

Have you actually read what I wrote? When Ulquiorra first met Ichigo, he himself said Ichigo's power was jumping ABOVE HIS OWN. And by definition, Vaizard is a Shinigami who gained hollow powers.

EDIT: And you just proved my point. Ichigo with Bankai and hollow mask didn't even faze Ulquiorra in the recent chapter, but Ulquiorra stated himself that Ichigo's power jumped ABOVE his at times when they first met (when the hollow tried to take over Ichigo when he was fighting Yami). So why is it that Ichigo's power is lower than Ulquiorra's? We don't know yet, but from what I can tell, it's probably because he hasn't mastered using his hollow powers and there is still untapped power for him to use.

In other words you lose.

Could it simply be that even with Ichigo in control, he still cant access the full power that his inner-hollow has over him. Just cause he is able to control him doesn't mean he has true power over him.

[ChaosK]

Ulquiorra took Ichigo's Bankai + Hollow form Getsuga Tenshou, his most powerful move with one hand, completely unfazed.

Wrong, it took him 2 hands and I believe his line was "I'm surprised I couldn't stop it even with both hands"

Do you really think him keeping the form up for longer would put him in a better position? Ichigo then took a Cielo blast, and defended himself a split second by activating his mask, and still got rawly decimated. There is no proof just how powerful the Vaizards are. Lastly, there is no proof that Vaizard's were once shinigami. Next time back up what you want to say.

Vaizards are Shinigami that entered hollow territory, in short, all vaizards are shinigami, just like all allancar are hollows.

Now to my theory(ies): there's no way you can just label only the top 4 as vastolordes because they're insanely powerful. The 9th Espada, the only one that's a gillian is an espada. That would mean #10 (Yammi) is at least (and most likely) an adjuchas(sp). It's not concrete that all Adjucas are weaker than all vastolordes. Although it would most likely make sense, the manga's gone extremely confusing by throwing in a gillian in the ranks of Espada. Furthermore, didn't Aizen say something like "say hello to your 20 brother's and sisters" when Ulquiorria first returned from the real world? Now obviously it's doubtable that all 20 were vastolordes because the Espada were probably among them and we know a few Espadas aren't Vastolordes. But there's no way Aizen only has 20 Adjuchas or above under his control, so what exactly does he mean by those 20?

It probably means that there are Vastolordes that don't rank up to Espadas for reasons undisclosed, such as the 9th's unique power, perhaps say another Espada, only a adjuchas ranks above a Vastolorde because he too has a unique power.

Finally, Ulquiorria is probably a vastolorde, I'd say Noitora is one too, as well as Grimmjaw, Halibel, Stark and the old geezer. (some names are taken from wikipedia)

Meaning the rest are Adjuchas including Yammi, Zaera-Polo, and the final unnamed guy..

Of course Aaroniero is a Gillian.

[Munsu]

So we now know that Grimmjaw was an Adjuchas. I still don't think that Noitora is a Vastolorde, and as we all think that Ulquiorra is one. As for the remaining 3, I think they'll end up being Vastolordes too. What about the leader of the Exequias? Think he might be a Vastolorde? Or maybe one of the Espadas is the leader of the Exequias.