Naruto 347

[JaySee]

The corpse of the snake is not a hint at an unsuccessful ritual. Like I said, he could just take that form before he does the ritual. He could have completely failed at even beginning the ritual or not even attempt it. You're assuming a false dichotomy of the ritual happened and failed or the ritual happened successfully. There's another possibility that the ritual didn't happen at all and Oro just took that form to fight.

I'm saying Kabuto didn't know if the ritual happened at all and there's no proof there for him to "know" that it happened. That is until Sasuke told him.

[Munsu]

I think you didn't read my full post, I already covered those possibilities.

I never said the corpse was a hint of an unsuccessful ritual, I said if it were a hint Kabuto wouldn't have that confusion with who's controlling Sasuke's body (different words, same message). So what does this mean? This means that a corpse of a snake is not equal to Oro's death (though a possibility), but in the case of the ritual occurring the corpse of the snake is the outcome wether successful or not.

Kabuto saying "That's the skin of the Giant Snake. That means the ritual is already over!?" is evidence enough that he thought the ritual had occurred, of course you can argue that he couldn't have known for sure it occurred, but you can't deny the fact that he thought it did and we know it did.

So right off the bat, we can eliminate any significance the corpse of the snake has as to portray what happened in the confrontation between Sasuke and Oro. As I said in my post above, no matter what events occured during their fight at the end of it there would be a corpse of a snake wether there was a ritual or not (assuming Oro went all out in his true form). The only way there wouldn't be a corpse was if Oro had killed Sasuke (or he escaped or whatever) and he didn't go through the ritual. Again, read my post above again, I think I've presented enough evidence.

[JaySee]

My mistake, I skimmed your post in a rush this morning before I had to leave. Seems we're completely on the same page.

Just for fun, I'd like to throw in another possibility. Oro's corpse in snake form may in fact be proof the ritual was attempted. The purpose of that form may only be for the ritual and not his actual "ultimate" form as everyone is presuming. This is also jab at the people arguing that Sasuke fought Oro in his "ultimate" form and Naruto didn't.

[Munsu]

Yeah, we were pretty much in the same page, just some details in the middle we had a difference of opinion on, but the end result was pretty much the same.

It's been a while since I've read old Naruto chapters, so I'm wondering if this is the first time Orochimaru has taken this form?

In his fight with Naruto, Jiraiya, or The Third, he never took that form? Well being his "ultimate" form is debatable, but Sasuke mentioning that it's his real identity and Oro didn't deny it, so we know as much.

It's really hard to judge how good this true identity of his really is... Sasuke seemed to have an easy time with him, up to the point that the poison and the seal's true purpose started to affect Sasuke, so we can't really tell the strength especially when we still don't know the range of Sasuke's potential and on how wierd the whole setting of the fight was.

It would be interesting to see if Oro goes into his true identity form, if he can change back into his last container. I have a feeling that if Oro goes into that form, he has no choice but to find a new container or remain in that form (who knows how long that form lasts) until he dies. So if anyone knows if he's taken that form before, please let me know.

So in conclusion, that true identity may very well be his ultimate form, but I don't think we can know that for certain (would need to go back and re-read and see if I missed anything), but we can assume that it's his true identity and it may very well be that he only uses it when preparing for the ritual (we don't know what are the consequences of him going into his true identity if it's not to perform the ritual).

As a side note, since his fight with The Third, I really haven't seen him use all his great jutsus (to my recollection) like the reviving of the previous Hokages... anyone knows the reason for this?

[Knives122]

Well you could say that since then he was on the defensive and just didn't feel like killing anyone or something.(Naruto did attack him after all and so did Sasuke).

That or it was in a confined space and he didn't want to blow up his nice creepy pedophile like house.

[Assertn]

As a side note, since his fight with The Third, I really haven't seen him use all his great jutsus (to my recollection) like the reviving of the previous Hokages... anyone knows the reason for this?

Well, when the 3rd sealed oro's arms, he observed that the process would ultimately seal oro's jutsu. Now, we've all been lead to believe that this isn't the case when he took that other guy's body during the sasuke chase arc, and regained control of his arms.

However......why was oro sitting on his deathbed just prior to his confrontation with sasuke? He seemed to have been suffering similiarly to the shower scene when he was awaiting sasuke's arrival during teh chase arc, so maybe switching bodies did not in fact cure him completely from the side effects of the 3rd's seal.

[darkmetal505]

However......why was oro sitting on his deathbed just prior to his confrontation with sasuke? He seemed to have been suffering similiarly to the shower scene when he was awaiting sasuke's arrival during teh chase arc, so maybe switching bodies did not in fact cure him completely from the side effects of the 3rd's seal.

He was approaching his 3-year mark, no? He probably gets extremely weak during this period. Oro was on the edge; Kabuto recognized the urgency of the situation, and in 345, he said the soul transfer should occur that day.