Claymore

[Ryllharu]

/Prepares to make up an excuse how Clare got faster to satisfy shinta:

Image ripped from the manga because the anime clouds her legs in snow and dust to avoid drawing them. All scenes shown have already appeared in the anime.

Take a full look at Clare's new legs, and compare them to Rigardo's


Rigardo has fairly normal looking legs (maybe a little hairy since he's a lion-man now). The speed in his legs is the same as any other part in his body. He's just freaking fast. Clare's legs are all freakish tendons and are counterbalanced to keep her upright. Hoofed feet, which further explains her lack of ability to control them at first. Her legs were twisted into this form with only one thought in her mind, speed.

Let me tie in a different aspect. Ophelia gave us a full explanation on how Claymore becomes either an Offensive, or Defensive warrior. This was alluded to again recently with the discussion between Deneve and Undine. Clare thought of only killing Priscilla when she became a Claymore, and now she's Offensive.

Here, Clare thought of only being faster than Rigardo in order to save Miria as she allowed herself to awaken. The form her legs appeared in is superior to Rigardo's in terms of speed. It's so fast that it is well beyond her, so she uses her claymore and her hands to force some semblance of control into them as she got used to it. Even Rigardo realized that she'd never touch him as long as he was able to move.

Rigardo was never really serious with Clare (or any of the Claymores) until the end of their bout. That resulted in being handicapped when she sliced off his arm. He probably would have killed her easily if she hadn't. By that time, Clare had gotten used to the new legs, was now far faster than he was due to the form her legs twisted into.

Lastly, yoki does not equal speed. Yoki is the fuel that all Claymores and Awakened Beings tap into to feed their abilities. Miria uses hers in short bursts that equaled Rigardo until she got tired. Clare has done the same with the Flash Sword. Flora recognized that her Windcutter wasn't faster than Clare's Flash Sword with Irene's arm. There exists a possibility that Clare could cut Miria in half before she vanished (assuming they were standing still at first and Clare got to swing first). The speed is a combination of physical abilities powered by Yoki. Strength isn't speed.

Clare is lighter in mass than Rigardo. By a lot. Her legs in a form meant only for speed, her lighter frame moves faster than Rigardo's.

(There. Totally made up with various assumptions based off things we've blatantly been told and "screencaps")

[shinta|hikari]

Ive already taken that in consideration a few posts earlier. I said that Clare's legs were like a cheetah's, and are thus build for speed. But even you (as I did), admit it is based purely on assumptions. All I am asking for is that they explain it in the show. I know it seems overly critical of me, but this time I think I am already quite forgiving of claymore since I love it. Even if I can theorize that Clare's AB form is specialized for speed (which I did), it would be a lot better if they give an actual explanation of this in the show, like they did about the semi-awakened state (since no one could have figured it out if they hadnt). Granted, this is less impossible to speculate on, but it is still quite difficult to figure out, much less know with a certain degree of certainty.

In the end, whether an explanation is "necessary" or not depends on the person (since I cant seem to convince Munsu otherwise), but even he would have to agree that it will be better with an explanation than without.

EDIT - That being said, is it possible that the awakened form of the claymore is not determined from the start, but rather something that can result from imagination or desperation, like (possibly) Clare's?

[Ryllharu]

I don't even think that the specialized for speed part is important. I think I finally settled on it at the end of my post.

Clare is lighter in mass than Rigardo. By a lot. ...her lighter frame moves faster than Rigardo's.

Her lighter frame is easier to move. Rigardo is like twice her size, and dramatically more built in the upper body. He might way several times her own weight.

There's no need to explain what's common sense there.

[AbstractTheorem]

Rigardo needs to go buy him a Powerskip(http://www.powerskip.de/engineering.html) to keep up with Clare, since hers is built in now...ITS Straight up the Shape of the leg...

Rigardo could have cut his waist off, spun his torso around then reattached it.... then he might have been able to keep up :P.

Next episode, Claire is going to push to a higher limit of yoki release... and develop into ...
BLAMMO!

Honestly, I have to say I was surprised at how good this episode was for how they diverged from the manga with Raki showing up.

I was half expecting Raki to run in crying shaking Clare out of her over Yoki-Youma-Infested state, and together they team up with the power of love and Rigardo explodes becuase he is a Youma... and Youma are the anti-love, so love hurts them worser then swords ever could hope to......I would have had to break my monitor.

...yeah I know sounds pessimistic but its filler... its hard to hope for the best..lol

I am Really curious as to how they ae going to end it..... its building towards an ending now tho... Isley and Priscilla showing up and a reunion with Raki?

I was really hoping for ---> stopping at a good point -----> Crank out OVA's when the story is ready; but instead, it really looks like its just going to wrap up.

Oh well filler ending or not I hope its good.

[animus]

I bet everyone and their mother in Claymore has thought "I need to be stronger and faster" in a fight to the death resulting in an awakening and still not produce the results Clare did, giving her enough speed to take Rigald by surprise. And just awakening her legs no less. Regardless a partial awakening should never outclass a full awakening regardless. This follows through with common sense and anime/manga/story archetypes. There's also another reason why she clearly wouldn't have produced the same results with her regular arms than she did with Irene's arm. This is due to the difference in Yoki, and Yoma quality.

Lighter frame has nothing to do with it. Riful was humungous and she disappeared in an instant taking a mountain along with her too. You think a being as powerful as Rigardo wouldn't be able to move his body weight to it's fullest regardless, which is miniscule. Considering his ability to pick up with one arm stone statues twice the size of him.

[shinta|hikari]

The issue with the lighter frame equals speed argument is the fact that being lighter doesnt necessarily mean faster, and that was blatantly shown in how Rigardo completely owned the other "lighter" claymores (even Millia who specializes in speed) with his speed.

I agree with your idea about the legs though. It would be more acceptable that a weaker claymore is faster because she is specialized in speed than her just being lighter (though that is a big part of it).

EDIT - what animus said is right. Frame does have little to do with speed in the world of claymore. BUT, even if the Awakened beings are generally stronger than their claymore selves, in Clare's case, her legs (I assume) are built for speed, and that alone. I think this shows that AB's have different specializations, and probably if we ever get to see Clare fully awakened, she will look like a cheetah or a horse. Its less unlikely that an AB (even if its just the legs) focused on speed is faster than a generally more powerful AB who is strong in numerous attributes.

See, common sense doesnt apply here, so I demand an explanation! LOL.

[Ryllharu]

Riful was humungous and she disappeared in an instant taking a mountain along with her too.

Riful is made out of lightweight fabric, she's all ribbons. Ribbons float in the wind. Add a little propulsion from motion or yoki, and poof, superspeed. Like an evil kite of death.

I see your point, but Rigardo isn't an Abyssal One. They're an entirely different class of Awakened Beings. Rigardo is just as strong as Duff is tough and stupid.

[animus]

I'm pretty sure Rigardo outclasses Duff.

And again, since we go back to the idea that a stronger Claymore makes a stronger awakened being. Clare pulling that off is still flawed.

[David75]

There's an idea that struck me...
We are on the asumption that Clare in semi-awaken state has powers of an Awakened Being and keeps her human mind.

What if, for her, the power in her semi-awakened state is the one of an Abyssal One?

I mean the design of her legs are inspired with a horse, but has other elements and a steel shine.

Well maybe I'm just fooled, but as stated before, we guess on lacking data... and we tend to guess that everything is linear and/or contiguous. Maybe for power we have to think big: Abyssal One... Even Easley seemed quite surprised.

[Yukimura]

Clare's semi-awakened form seems to make pretty good sense to me, especially after whoever it was made their yoki = fuel argument. She may have less fuel than others, though this is debatable since peoples assumptions have been wrong so often before, but she seems to do a fine job of using what she does have to a very precise degree. She took herself to the limit and forced all the power she could muster into her legs, gaining super speed that could surpass Rigardo. However strong or weak we think she is compared to others she was clearly capable of doing this, because that's what she did. The only real explanation I might ask for would be why hadn't Clare done this before, to which the answer is probably b/c she was never pushed as far mentally and physically before.

As to the relative power different, we have no idea how being half awakened affects the Awakening process. Even if you accept that Claymore rank will directly correlate to Awakened Being relative strength the evidence for that is only people who went through a Claymore + Emotion -> Awakening process in an extremely short period of time. Having never seen a partially awakened person become fully awakened, we are forced to speculate as to whether the same power distribution setup that binds regular Claymore Awakenings also applies to partially-awakened Claymore Awakenings. It seems to me that the author and anime adapters wanted to make a big deal about the partially-awakened state. If this is the case then it's hard for me to assume that while being partially-awakened is something very different than being a normal Claymore, all the rules that apply to normal Claymores still hold for half-awakened ones.

Adding in the fact that Clare clearly was strong enough to take out Rigard when normal Claymore logic says she shouldn't have been able to leads me to believe that the partial awakening state increases one's abilities and potential far beyond what they would be if you were simply a Claymore.

[Darknodin]

you guys realize this is not filler... filler is an episode made to get to the required 26-52, etc. or to pass time while the story is more or less on hold. this is not manga material, yes... but this is not filler.

about the discussion... i think Clare's power has something to do about teresa. (remember when she was at 10%... she was owning everyone... and clare is half-teresa so...)

[darkmetal505]

Damn, the "superb" didn't have the same effect as it did in the manga.

[shinta|hikari]

I really have doubts about the Teresa explanation, since she herself knew that Priscilla could have surpassed her if given the time. Of course we dont know the extent of Priscilla's strength right now, but with what we do know, it is quite unlikely.

I like Yuki's take on it, since that does seem very Clare-like, resourceful (though not always efficient <Ophelia Battle>) and surprising. That would presume though, that the awakened form (and thus characteristics) is dependent on the persons will, and ability to control Youki (an ability which has been mentioned Clare is quite lacking in). It seems quite possible though. I hope they dont go too far with the semi-awakened idea, since theyre going to have a tough time rationalizing how a semi-awakened can be stronger than an awakened if it ever happens.

Still, putting aside technical issues about her new power, Clare is really ownage right now. She has insane attack power with the flash sword, has great foresight due to her incredible youki reading, and has amazing speed due to her ability to awaken her legs. Add enough arm power to actually cut the things she is slashing, and she would become god-like. I actually like the fact that she became faster only, instead of powering up in all aspects and owning the enemy.

EDIT - Just a thought, I wonder what kind of metal they use for their swords? I just find it really odd that after clashing (and bouncing off) so many times with the skin/armor of the AB's, it eventually cuts through. It would make more sense if it breaks (especially since it looks shell hard), since that implies an exertion of enough force to actually break it in the current attack. Slicing is never about force but sharpness, and what they do to the AB's looks a lot like slicing to me. The sharpness of their sword is constant, so even if it doesnt completely go through with the lack of force, it should visibly wound the AB's armor with slice wounds consistently, and not keep clanking like a knife smacking a pan.

[Ryllharu]

To quote another series with a massive sword:

"That thing was too big to be called a sword. Too big, too thick, too heavy, and too rough, it was more like a large slab of iron."
-Berserk

Guts did just fine with overwhelming force. Claymores can be absurdly strong. Push hard enough, anything will cut. Granted, the hard-shelled Awakened Beings should crack like a lobster rather than have parts sliced off, but I imagine the claymores are made to be durable more than sharp. They don't seem to go back to headquarters very often (though HQ sends supplies out often enough) so I think they're preferring to keep it low maintenance.

[shinta|hikari]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The larger the sword gets, the less sharp it can be. I guess it just seems too ugly to see awakened beings cracking, or too difficult to have to draw them being lightly wounded at each flash sword attack. I think that those swords are for life, since they are supposedly serve as grave markers for dead claymores. It would be interesting to find out exactly if there is anything special about it though.

[Shadow Skill]

Prescilla's face when Clare poweredup, was priceless. :P

[Church]

Epic h4xz

[Kraco]

Maybe the AB skin/armor is not only material but the ABs exert a part of their yoki to create some sort of a barrier around them (in practice making the skin impenetrable). That would explain why the swords of the lesser Claymores bounce off without leaving any marks, but if enough strength is applied to overcome the barrier, the sword will cut rather effortlessly through the flesh itself.

[DarthEnderX]

Jesus christ people. They're magic demon powers. Stop trying to explain them.

[Kraco]

Jesus christ DE. This is a series discussion thread. Stop trying to stop us from discussing the series.

Seriously, this thread has no other purpose.