Claymore

[Ryllharu]

Anyone else think Jeane's attack was another technique using "fully awakened" arms?

Jean's attack reminds me a lot of Helen's Stretch Armstrong limbs. Twisting instead of extending. Both seem to be very high level techniques, though Helen's is due to her semi-Awakening. Jean wasn't a semi-Awakened until just now, so she probably developed her Screw/Drill Sword more like Irene developed the Flash Sword.

The only difference was Jean had some nasty looking bruises all over her arm after she failed the first time. She didn't have the kind of pseudo-regeneration that came with Helen's arms when they go back. It may work differently or better now that she's semi-Awakened too.

[Buffalobiian]

The only difference was Jean had some nasty looking bruises all over her arm after she failed the first time. She didn't have the kind of pseudo-regeneration that came with Helen's arms when they go back. It may work differently or better now that she's semi-Awakened too.

Yeah, I don't think that arm can be in too good a shape having been twisted for 21 seconds.

Noticed Jeane's body after that "almost" awakening. Didn't look like it would ward off bandits. . Same with Ophelia's. Yet Teresa said "This is the body of a so called Claymore", and in Ep2 or 3, Rubel delivered the spare clothes to Clare (the black card episode), and he said "I wonder what he'll (Raki) do if he sees this body of yours." Seemed to imply that ALL claymores had, say, deformed or disgusting anteriors. But from the ones we've SEEN, they don't seem to turn you off.

[Yukimura]

We've heard hints about nastiness for Claymore bodies, but we've never actually seen a Claymore body that wasn't either half-awakened or all the way awakened, maybe whatever hideousness is there gets fixed when you cross the limit. Who can really tell.

[shinta|hikari]

The deformed part may not all be in the same area. Even though weve seen parts of the other claymores bodies, the hideous part may not be that big, and may vary between each claymore.

[Ryllharu]

Yeah, I don't think that arm can be in too good a shape having been twisted for 21 seconds.

Minor detail, but it wasn't 21 seconds, it was 21 rotations. That's why it looked so nasty afterward, it was all scrunched up that tight. I kinda wonder if Clare will steal Jean's technique too. Though, she may not need it, now that she's figured out how to more accurately control the Flash Sword, enough to avoid hitting things with it. Less wasted energy, maybe she can use it longer?

[shinta|hikari]

And Im thinking the Flash sword will also grow in power and speed as she gets better at it, making it akin to the original. Considering that the flash sword is what made Irene number 2 before, Clare will really become quite powerful if she masters it.

[Yukimura]

I don't think techniques are what determines rank, it's more likely the amount of natural Yoki primarily, with experience and technique giving lots of wiggle room but still being secondary. Irene certainly had better technique and experience than Priscilla, but she stepped aside as number 2 upon perceiving her immense untapped Yoki reserves. Ophelia had a technique but she seemed to have gotten #4 based on power and battle experience.

Clare seems to have very low base Yoki, so she can't put out as much ooomph as most other Claymore's. But she's been making up for it with techniques and experience as well as the ability to go balls to the wall without awakening. She's shown that she can hurt strong people as well as take hits from them so I suspect in the future it will come down to her experience, luck, and the matchup of her techniques against the techniques of the people she fights against to determine who wins.

[shinta|hikari]

I dont think that its just the youki that determines the rank, but rather the overall ability of that claymore. It just so happens that most claymores with a lot of youki are the most powerful ones. I also believe that the ranking is determined by the organization, and thus, if they believe you to be weak even if such is not the case, you will be ranked lower than you deserve (like Clare).

But Irene was known for her flash sword, as shown with the reactions of the rest of the Teresa hunting team. This means that if you develop a strong and effective enough technique and the organization recognizes it, you should be able to climb higher in the ranks than someone who has more youki.

[Yukimura]

I'd agree that the Organization is likely handing out rankings however they feel like (Which I stil suspect is based at least partially on base Yoki). How else would Ophelia, who's technique wasn't widely known be #4? Or Raphela who, according to Irene is much stronger than a number 5 should be, be #5. And Jeane who's technique has no practical application except for fighting tough Awakened Beings and even then only with a support group to give her time to prepare it.

[Buffalobiian]

I think the mainstream way of determining rank is just "power". Power can come from your mastery of technique, ability to release yoki or in most cases, the combo of both. The ability to use your power to the advantage of your technique is what gives you an edge. Just makes you wonder how Teresa is so strong though. She could defeat all her opponents (save semi-beserk Pricillia) without releasing any yoki). It's already been established that her techniques weren't top notch, though they perhaps are only outmatched by the tiniest bit, and that her yoki reading does most of the work. But against all of them, I don't think just reading yoki and predicting movement would have done the trick. So yeah, I guess it's yet to be explained, if they ever do decide to go back to that bit of history again. I also remember back in Teresa's days, number 4 and 5 fought for the 4th rank. I doubt anyone from the organisation was watching, so I wonder if the rankings are somewhat decided amongst Claymores too.

[shinta|hikari]

I think they ARE watching, since they determine the rank themselves. Its not fair nor accurate, but that how they do it.

It is unlikely that they will elaborate on the Teresa story anymore. At that point she was simply the most powerful, and that is usually enough of an excuse to be able to take on several strong enemies.

I dont think the claymores themsleves have anything to do with the ranking, since that would be almost impossible to determine and keep track of.

[masamuneehs]

what i don't understand, what makes no sense at all, is Clare's ranking. She is the very lowest in the Organization in terms of her number. Everyone comments on her pitifully low Yoki (even Galatea judges her by this). But she is pivotal in taking out two ABs (one on her own, albeit w/ Irene's arm) and in fighting Duff. There's simply no way she's actually the worst Claymore, she just has the smallest Yoki. That makes me think the Organization foolishly bases ranks solely on Yoki... at least initially.

Then again, maybe there's some kind of practical test... I mean, Priscilla, before Awakening, was said to have 'risen quickly' through the ranks, so that indicates some re-evaluation... which they clearly haven't given Clare for numerous episodes (largely cuz they can't find her, I'd imagine...). And, again, look at Priscilla, a very high number, but almost no experience, encumbering 'ethics' in battle, prone to emotional fits, complete lack of leadership, no special techniques that we saw... If she got to be that high ranked, like that, it really indicates to me that they rank based almost solely on amount of Yoki...

[shinta|hikari]

I think Priscilla rose through the ranks by killing tons of youmas, like the massacre she did when she was introduced. Her youki should be quite constant, and promotion is probably based on each claymores exploits.

Clare on the other hand, WAS number 47. We are no longer sure if the organization still views her as this weak, considering that they actually want Galatea to fetch her. Clare had a lot of trouble fighting even with normal youma before, and compared to other claymores, I believe she did seem to be the weakest. This has been disproven in her recent fights, but no one thinks that she was actually key in winning those fights, and thus her weak image has held. Now, they think she is dead, carrying the rank of 47 with her.

[Ryllharu]

The Organization didn't know whether she was alive, dead, or Awakened. They assumed she went rogue. That's why they sent Galatea after her. She'd have the best chance of finding her.

As for how the rankings are determined, Claymores tend to have relatively short lifespans, particularly the weaker ones. More powerful ones seem to live a lot longer, better control, more capable of handling the danger. The question isn't how the Organization evaluates, determines and amends the ranks, it's when they do it. We have a pretty good idea there are a lot of generations of Claymores. It's been some time since Priscilla awoke and devastated the annals of the Claymores (if they tried to stop her at all). Ophelia was just a girl the same time Clare was, and she's seems to have been an accomplished Claymore far longer than Clare has been one at all. We can only guess at exactly how long it's been between the time Riful became the first female ranked #1, the time Teresa became one, and the current era. With Clare and Ophelia, being from what I assume is the same "vintage" we have a fairly accurate guess from Clare's rate of maturity, but after they become full-fledged, it's anyone's guess, they don't age after that.

Long explanation aside, I'm guessing that ranks are reevaluated and redetermined only in the event of deaths (sliding the others up) and when others are added to the ranks as full-fledged Claymores. The Organization probably brings them all home or sends out all the handlers and then informs the Claymores of their new standings. Irene told the other two where they stood since she had apparently just come back with Priscilla from the Organization's base in the east. Newly minted, Priscilla's strength was evaluated when she entered the fold.

[shinta|hikari]

Hmm, that makes sense, but the way the number 4 and 5 of Teresa's hunting team were bickering about their ranks, it seemed that it would change a lot more constantly, and the change would not be limited to only additions and subtractions in the ranks.

But, I guess the way claymores keep dying like ants, it wouldnt really matter, since they would be able to reevaluate them frequently.

Just a question, why 47 total?

[Inazuma]

They said something about one claymore per zone, maybe there is only 47 zones ?

[Board of Command]

They just wanted an excuse to use the number 47. Number 47!

[masamuneehs]

Just a question, why 47 total?

In one episode it was mentioned that the area the Organization polices (or is at least often paid to police) is quite large. There's not much mass-transport or technology (haven't even seen any boats or carriages) and, as has been noted, the Claymores often walk quite laboriously towards their destinations, theoretically in the tradition of saving their energy for battle. So, the Organization has to have at least one Claymore in each district, at least as a base set-up, to answer Yoma bounties in a timely manner. I believe it was mentioned that the land is divided into 47 districts/territories, hence one Claymore for each.

Naturally, the question arises, what about all these group assignments we've been seeing recently? That would really suggest that they'd need to have more than one Claymore per area/district, as an district devoid of its Claymore (to help in an AB hunt or to serve a difficult Black Card) could yield a slow response, yielding no bounty (if they're all dead, they ain't paying) and lower credibility (and people are already down on Claymores...)

While we have been seeing lots of group assignments recently, I think they're deviations from the normal, where one Claymore serves in each area. Still, it seems stupid to only have 1 in each area.

edit - it's in the first Slashers episode, they mention Clare's the weakest because she's 47th, assigned to the easiest zone, and that each zone gets one.

[Ryllharu]

@shinta|hikari: In the Teresa arc, 4 and 5 bickered about their ranks because they were probably quite close in strength, and both seemed to be friends the same way Helen and Deneve are now. I see how you could view it that way, but I saw it more as just friendly banter. I imagine that unlike those two, most are fairly far apart in strength, drastic enough that unless new Claymores are added or deaths occur, no change would happen anyway. Miria mentioned that there's a huge gap in strength from #6 to #5 and so on down the line, so those two were probably a fluke of their Age. Then again, at the rates Claymores seem to have been dying, new batches may be introduced often enough that the re-ranking is fairly routine.

As for all the group assignments lately, the Organization seems to have quite a bit more to worry about now than under their more normal operations. All the Awakeneds seem to be coming out of the woodwork, and the Abyssal Ones are beginning to move as well. The winds of change are coming, and they are ill winds indeed.

[shinta|hikari]

That was what I was trying to say.

Im really excited about the scene in the preview, with tons of claymores in a large cave?/hall/area.