Haha, you missed the point of the argument entirely, its no wonder your complaining.
Haha, you missed the point of the argument entirely, its no wonder your complaining.
Peace.
yea... its actually the first time i hear about a #1 male claymore...Originally Posted by Yukimura
Just doing some rereading of the manga trying to find out if there's been mentioning of a male being the strongest I found this that might help clearify how Claymores are created.
Last edited by Elyne; Sat, 07-14-2007 at 10:38 AM.
Yes..that was exactly my point *slaps forehead* and since I'm not exactly stupid and absolutely not quickly confused by shiney words...stop being confusing.
Uh, now Im the one confused. If your not confused by shiny words as you call them, how am I confusing?
And just because you are confused or dont like the way we talk doesnt give you the right to stop us. There are actually people who understand it too.
And the point of the last post was that you are not exactly smart either, but since you say otherwise Ill take your word for it.
But since this is the claymore thread all this talk stops here. Reply if you must but this will be my last post on this topic.
BTW, its interesting to know some details about the creation of claymores, but the actual process still remains a mystery I guess.
About the number 1 male claymore, I think the person that wrote about that was assuming so based on the previously discussed issue of male claymores being generally stronger than female ones. Im not sure if this is true though, since all I remember being said was that they turned to youmas almost immediately.
Peace.
Yeah it's still speculations, but since male are stronger ... but unstable. It makes (to me) no doubt that Male n°1 will rule over women n°1.
Thats a tad sexist, but biologically speaking I agree with you. I think the reasoning they based the immediate youma transformation of males on is the aggressive nature (due to hormones mainly) of males in general. It could also be asserting that males generally dont or have little self-control, but I prefer the other one.
If they follow this line of thought when it comes to overall physical power as well, then your assumptions have a good chance of being accurate.
Peace.
In general animes lacks something that would be cool, a real hero-like entrance like.
The crazy bitch awakened, now she'll be going after Raki or Clare, there is no way they can match her firepower. Now a real hero-like entrance would be;a character not introduced yet in the series, interjecting between the bad guy and the main/side character, beating the crap out of the bad guy with one move without any effort. (If anyone knows an anime where such scenario takes place ...)
Now, everyone expects Raki to become a claymore, but now I would like the story to be innovative and surprise us with some shit that even a Deadfire on crack wouldn't have expected.
I think that would be a letdown, quite honestly.
Whether Raki becomes a claymore or not doesn't matter much. But bringing in a new, even stronger character is what literary critics would call "Deus ex Machina". Basically, "oh, here's this insane tangled problem, and ... whoops, one of the gods descended and fixed it! Case closed, we're done, thanks for playing."
The reason we don't see that sort of thing is that it's extremely unsatisfying. It's just a bad way to deal with a storyline.
Raki becoming a Claymore would be extremely weak from a storytelling perspective, I think. Pretty much every principle character in the story is an inhuman badass killing machine except him, and the fact that he is just joe average who's stuck in the world of demons and blonde Terminators is what affords his existence any relevance to the plot (that and he's a guy in a story full of girls, but I don't think THAT will be played upon much).
I would call Irene's random appearance to save Clare a hero-like entrance as situation you described, though she has been introduced so it's not exactly the same. If Irene has been hiding out all these years what the hell was she doing wandering the forest right where Clare was with her sword (I'm assuming she had her claymore but she could probably have done what she did to Ophelia with just a pocket knife).
I find the similarity in our lines of thought slightly unsettling. Just slightly, though.
Agreed that her showing up was pretty much deus ex machina. However, just because she's hidden her yoki doesn't mean she's unable to sense it. My guess is she picked up on traces of the battle (possibly because of the awakened and whatnot) from a couple miles off and decided to go take a closer look. It's weak, but it's not as weak as "she was just wandering through the woods and stumbled across them" at least.
But whatever. Irene's still being alive at all is sort of a contrived device to help Clare develop as a fighter. I think the scenario involving Ophelia ended up with a bunch of possible bad resolutions, and Irene showing up and saving the day was probably the least bad choice.
Irene sensed Teresa's Yoki, from Clare, and that is why she investigated the fight. "I came after sensing a nostalgic presence, but I know neither of the faces here." So she can obviously still sense Yoki very well. I don't think a large amount of Yoki is necessary for sensing it, since Clare is such a low number, yet her speciality is Yoki sensing. Also this example with Irene.
I also agree that it's super plot convenience for Irene to show up, but it's palatable. It further unites the past with the present storyline and now gives a valid reason for why some powerful Claymore, other than the Slashers, would help Clare.
wow, this thread is unbelievably huge. (400+ posts!)
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
yup, I totally forgot about her saying that ... but you're right. Helps justify things a bit...
Well... When the hero/heroine is faced against an impossible challenge, it becomes pretty obvious that someone will probably come in and save the hero. It's "who" saves the hero that makes it interesting in my opinion. I'd prefer to see the hero saved rather than him/her getting some super power-up and defeating the enemy.
I wasn't expecting it to be be Irene who saves Clare. I also thought it would be some person who hasn't been introduced yet. To me, the whole "I sensed a nostalgic presense" was a really nice touch and built a strong support as to why Irene would be there in the first place.
As for the hero-like entrances, what else could the writer have done though? Make Ophelia fall for Clare's trick? Give Clare a power-up? Maybe he shouldn't have gone this route at all?
If Ophelia fell for Clare's trick, I'm sure Ophelia would just pick up her sense again later and then we get a repeat of events again. If Clare got a power up it would just be dull and boring.
I personally like the way everything went.
I wouldn't count on that. If all the males awakened very soon, it would mean they would have no special techniques, only lots of raw power. That counts for much, but as we saw with the male Awakened, with suitable techniques you can render strong raw power meaningless. So, a strong male Claymore would be only a hypothetical and unlikely one.
Ophelia has been an Awakened being for a very short time now. All she has ever done has been fighting with her claymore as a Claymore. If she now immediately goes after Clare and Irene, she wouldn't actually be a strong Awakened but one that doesn't yet know what she's doing. She hasn't had time to explore has new status and possible powers. So, she's not so dangerous yet. Not as dangerous as she could be after a while, anyway.
I don't know about that. So in a fight between two Claymores, you would give the disadvantage to the Claymore who Awakens during the fight, since the Claymore hasn't adjusted yet? Given, she won't be as powerful as an experienced Awakened being, but she has to be stronger than when she wasn't Awakened.
I don't think it's really feasible for a claymore to really fully awaken in the course of a battle. At least, not a reasonably well-trained one.
We've seen 3 awakenings. Ophelia's was unusual both in that she didn't realize she was awakening, and in that she didn't awaken due to going over the line during a fight -- she just sort of mentally destabilized.
Clare and Priscilla both crossed the threshold by accident, though. Clare briefly to deliver a decisive blow, and Priscilla gradually trying to win against Teresa. In both cases, their inhibitions kicked in after they crossed the line, causing them to at least momentarily become less effective in combat. After all, nobody wants to turn into the thing they most hate.
Something like this:
In this case, the claymore that awakens during combat against an opponent without the mercy that doomed Teresa would definitely not have a good time, because they'd experience that power drop before the transformation and loss of inhibitions. Not to mention they're clearly already at a disadvantage if they're pushed to the point that awakening happens.
On the other hand, the Slashers have already crossed that line and come back. They're awakened, and have little need of those inhibitions, as far as we can tell. That means they can follow the blue line instead of the red one, and things will go a little better.
Well, not necessarily. It of course also depends on the opponent. If you are fighting against another Claymore who suddenly turns into a monster, you are basically facing a totally new opponent. That's a hindrance for sure. However, I don't really think it's wise to think by default that Awakened beings are somehow always superior compared to Claymores. Claymores are terminator like cool and composed killing machines (or they should be), whereas Awakened beings are more instinct driven demons, with varying degrees of their human wits remaining. Two quite different creatures, both of which have some obvious strengths yet also obvious weaknesses.
If the Awakened beings were always so superior, we wouldn't have ever seen or heard of them being defeated by Claymores. And this time is no different, all the way down to the numbers: We have two Claymores against one Ophelia The Awakened: Clare and Irene.
I dont think awakened beings fight using techniques, nor do they need to. If you remember the Priscilla awakening, she practically destroyed everyone without having any time to adjust to her new body. She could use it quite efficiently as soon as she went over the limit (like the extending finger attack and the flying at the end), so knowing what the body can do is probably attributed more to instinct rather than actually trying it out for a test drive.
EDIT - I also realized that becoming an awakened being doesnt only give the former claymore a bloodthirst and hunger for flesh, but also, to put it simply, evil. I remember Priscilla wanting to fight Teresa one on one because she feels it is unfair to attack her with the whole team, but later on kills Teresa by tricking her in the most disgusting (be it simple) way possbile. So, does this mean that all awakened beings are devious bastards despite who they were before?
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Mon, 07-02-2007 at 05:33 AM.
Peace.
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