Claymore

[Board of Command]

The steak on my plate is nowhere near my equal. To suggest that a cow and I are remotely similar is ridiculous.

Depends on how you view that steak. If I accidentally cut my arm off on a bandsaw and put it on a plate for you, how similar is that to you?

It's true that you are not similar at all to a cow. However, you're both technically animals; mammals to be even more specific. You're both part of the same foodchain. You two are intimate enough that you're willing to eat that cow. From an ecological point of view, all that separates you from a cow is a knife and fork. However, from a social point of view, you two are worlds apart.

[complich8]

So you're saying that animals don't have independent moral status?

Well, what differentiates you from the cow that the steak came from?

Or is it that there's something inherently superior about humans? If so, what?

Depends on how you view that steak. If I accidentally cut my arm off on a bandsaw and put it on a plate for you, how similar is that to you?

mmm ... I'd suggest that you take it to a doctor and see if they can't surgically reattach it >_<. Or, more to the point, I'd wonder how you're still standing and haven't bled to death yet, given that you just brutally lacerated a huge artery.

[Shadowflame]

I think one thing is that humans can unambiguously express their desire to remain uneaten, and identifying with that ability is one thing that deters people from eating people. Example: I don't want to be eaten. If I try to eat something else that looks like me and tells me, "Hey, don't eat me" even if I'm hungry, I'm going to identify with their desire to stay alive and off my plate, because hey, I don't want to be going to someone's thighs either (well, not from the inside anyway).

In dealing with eating things that you wouldn't have to kill, like say, already dead bodies, well, most people like their food to have been otherwise healthy-ish before being slaughtered to feed them. So you'd either have to murder someone or assist in their suicide a la Yoshimitsu to get some food, which most people believe to be wrong, or they'd have to have already died, which isn't exactly appealing. Actually, thinking about this now, the strongest deterrent is probably the killing stage, followed by the identification with the food you're eating.

And that, kids, is why anthropomorphism causes veganism.

(Wow, and none of it was about Claymore.)

The delay in ep 20, I can deal with. If it's a long delay though...not so much.

[shinta|hikari]

Humans are more advanced lifeforms than cows (well, any other animal). That much is a fact. Still, by biological classification, we are mammals, and are thus animals. Any attempt to say otherwise is just some human dignity-centered illusion.

As to the point about humans being ABOVE animals, that depends on your point of view. Buddhists dont think so, while the majority do. Value in this sense is very subjective, and thus cannot be proven.

The only reason one needs to feel wrong about humans being eaten is the fact that we are humans. I dont think its about us being too advanced or special to be eaten. Its just that we dont want to see our own kind being eaten. This is of course not an instinctual distaste, but mainly something society has injected into people's thinking, thus explaining the fact that there are exceptions like BoC. Social attachments cause this, much like family and friend relations.

Now on topic. If I were a youma or AB, I wouldnt mind seeing people getting eaten like crap (because I eat them myself, like how humans eat cows). But even the ABs dont want to see ABs close to them getting killed much less eaten (like Riful and Duff, and the affection between Priscilla and Easley). Its not because they think that they are above humans (though they do believe in this probably) but because they have a certain attachment to those beings. Humans are the same. People who dont really have much attachment to anything and is quite immune to societal influence against eating human flesh (including cannibalism) may in fact not care about humans being classified as food.

Even the idea of intelligence as the basis for what can be eaten and what is hands off is based on this attachment. As beings with intelligence ourselves, we do not think that creatures closer to us should undergo treatment that we ourselves do not want to undergo. It is because we can relate to them more that they are saved from being classified as food. Still, this is again a social influence, since some cultures actually eat doplhins and monkeys (well some even humans), meaning its not an inherent biological restriction.

So even if another more advanced creature comes around and starts eating humans, we are not likely to just accept it as part of the natural process, partly because of self preservation instinct, and partly because we simply dont want to see our kind being eaten due to the reasons stated above. So the reaction of the people in Claymore against Yomas and ABs is perfectly natural. I dont even get why people questioned that in the first place.

EDIT: Oh and protecting your family from danger is indeed an instinct (mammals definitely have it), yet somehow human cowardice or idiocy manages to overcome this (cough). I personally believe that humans are quite BELOW animals, but thats just my opinion.

[Church]

ITT: Fine Dining...

[Yukimura]

Lions = Yoma, Humans = wildebeest Herd (just ignore the crocodile)

[Buffalobiian]

To me, humans feeling they are ABOVE animals lie in the fact that humans find they have the ability to exploit animals, and that they have power over animals, especially life and death amongst other things. Same goes for many master-slave, employer-employee relationships.

[Kraco]

As a species cows and many others have benefitted from being eaten by humans, if cold logic is applied. There are probably a billion cows now living all over the earth. How many would there be if the species hadn't been so delicious and produced equally suitable milk and leather? It would be just another wild beast of remote areas like elk and others.

[complich8]

That argument works better for sheep, which domestication saved from the jaws of extinction.

Consider that in the African savannas, wildebeests (basically wild cattle) do fine without humans herding them, and suffer more from habitat destruction than from the wild being wild. Domesticated cattle are descended from viable wild species. Domestic sheep, not so much. Domestic cattle are also not treated very well. Dairy cattle in particular, when they're milking, they're pretty well just kept in the same stall all day for months on end.

Anyway, this is drifting pretty far afield. One can only hope that the release happens soon and we can get back on topic .

[masamuneehs]

I'm not weighing in on the much-interesting debate (first time in a while I haven't bothered to read all posts and just skipped ahead...) except to say that it's not the fact that they eat humans that bothers people, it's the fact that the people are afraid that THEY themselves will get eaten, and afterwards it's quite natural to hate and oppose those who prefer to eat your still warm flesh...

I would say the following "So it goes.."

Frighteningly enough, I also use that reference when watching news or movies and someone next to me is getting squeamish about death. Remember, the dead person is just in a real bad condition currently, but he's fine in plenty of other moments in time... Poo-tee-weet?

sucks that 20 is delayed. hopefully it won't be long, and Eclipse has done pretty good work getting episodes done in reasonable time. Also, has anyone checked out the "DVD" releases by Eclipse? I think the first couple episodes are out, and was wondering if they're that much different and better for archiving

[Ryllharu]

I downloaded the first of the dvd episodes, and didn't really see the need to replace what I have. There was one episode in the teens that eclipse mentioned barely passed QC, but only because better raws were unavailable. That one would be worth replacing, but it really didn't seem like that much of an improvement.

Maybe the lines are cleaner, but Claymore has fairly simple art, at least in the character models.

[Everon]

It depends with each monitor. If you're blowing it up on a 20", every little bit helps.

[Munsu]

There's clearly a difference, especially with the abundance of the red color and dark scenes.

So, is it worth it? In my opinion, yes.

[Kraco]

Too bad I already burned 1-14. DVDRs don't cost that much, but I doubt I'll replace it.

[Yukimura]

Speed Sub for all you addicts out there who just can't take it anymore
Claymore - 20 h264- [NoTaNoN]

Claymore - 20 h264- [NoTaNoN]

[complich8]

yeah, I try not to burn until I've got either >3 dvds worth or a complete series. I checked out ep 1 dvd version and loved the quality kick, so if they keep releasing it I'll keep getting it...

[Inazuma]

Ep 20 is yummy, no action, no real plot discovery but still it's claymore and it's good.

[WRX Sti]

i'm still waiting on priscila to chow down on raki, lol... no action, but still learnt a few things about some characters, cant wait for next week

[Yukimura]

They changed something from the manga...something that was both awesome and revealing. Why would they do that? I was really looking forward to seeing it...now I'm sad.

[shinta|hikari]

Yuki, please PM me what happened in the manga, at least the part that they changed. After giving a comment like that, I have to know about it.