Hollow Terms and Names

[Munsu]

So far we know that Kubo Tite has been using foreign names and terms, mostly of latin origin, to name Hollow characters and the likes. So I thought it would be productive to try and figure out for ourselves what should be the intended terms and names since there are multiple possibilites. I don't know if there are any official spelligs out there, so if you have them please provide them. I'll start with a couple of character names and see where this leads.

Also, be careful of spoilers, I don't want any on this thread.

Ulquiorra:

Ulquiorra seems to be the most popular spelling of this character, but I don't think that's the spelling Kubo intended. The romaji of the name is Urukiora, so my best guess is that the name should be Urquiola. If you google Urquiola you might see that there's an oil-tanker by that name that caused an oil spill near the coast of Spain. Also, there seems to be a some designer called Patricia Urquiola, so at least we know that name exist in the real world.

Vaizard:

People seem to like that spelling. The romaji for the term is Vaizaado, and I think that the intended term is "Visored", deriving from the word "visor". These characters wear masks, much like the visors that exist in different type of helmets. There's also Vizard, which seems to be an archaic for of visor or mask. So in any case, I'd say Visored or Vizard should be the inteded spellings.

Arrancar:

I think that's the correct way for spelling it, it pretty much means "to tear off".

Edorad:

Romaji is how you see it spelled, but my guess is that it should've been Eduardo. If left as Edorad, maybe the intended name/term is "El Dorado" which can mean "The Golden", also worth mentioning that there's a fish called dorado which you guys should know it as mahi-mahi. Still, I believe that the name should be Eduardo.


I'm sure there are other terms and names that might be controvertial, so please bring them up if you find any. Also, let me know what you think of the ones I've already mentioned.

[XanBcoo]

I'm smacking myself because I totally missed the "Arrancar" meaning. It didn't even occur to me that it could have been a Spanish word. I just assumed Kubo had made it up.

Properly translating Romanizations has always been a bitch. Good idea, Bud.

[RyougaZell]

I've always laughed at Kubo's name of Menos Grande.

Menos Grande

The first of this kind we saw was humongous. Menos is less in spanish, while Grande is Big, also in spanish. So the name of this guys is "The Less Big" or "The Smaller" if we try to make it sound right.

Hueco Mundo

The 'Empty World'. Hueco can also be used for Hollow. Hollow World. Nice way of playing with words.

There are other few terms I would like to discuss, but since they haven't aired on the anime I will refrain. This a thread worth visting as the story keeps progressing.

Arrancar

Bud already spoke about this one, so I'll just add my two cents about it.
Arrancar... to tear-off. An excellent way to define Hollow who have teared off their masks. Thumbs-up for Kubo.

Oh yeah... I still love seeing when Chado/Sado presents his medallion to Ichigo. Mexican coin with our Eagle emblem and everything

EDIT:

Vasto Lorde (or whatever you spell it)

Vasto Lorde... Vastolorde... Vastardo... Bastardo... Bastard.
Dunno where could it come from. But before Dattebayo used the term Vasto Lorde I thought this category was 'Bastard'

[bagandscalpel]

I've always laughed at Kubo's name of Menos Grande.

Menos Grande

The first of this kind we saw was humongous. Menos is less in spanish, while Grande is Big, also in spanish. So the name of this guys is "The Less Big" or "The Smaller" if we try to make it sound right.

Actually, as pointed out to me by Xanbcoo in a conversation we had recently, "Menos Grande" would be more appropriately translated as "Great Minuses," for obvious reasons.

[Munsu]

Vasto Lorde is apparently Vast Lord in Portuguese.

And I'd also say that if you don't apply the literary meaning to "Menos" and just consider it a name, then when used with "Grande" it'll mean "Big Menos", and I think that's the intention. And as bagand said, Grande is often used as "Great"... Just as Alexander the Great is known as "Alejandro el Grande". So any of those uses should be acceptable.

[RyougaZell]

bagandscalpel: That one I do not agree too. Great Minuses would be "Los Grandes Menores" and not "Menos Grande".

PS: Just reminding whoever doesn't know... Im Mexican.


EDIT:

Bud: your explanation came after I posted my own post. And that way is more convincing. I mean, it makes bagandscalpel's more convincing.


Vast Lord is portuguese? Now that one is one I didn't know. Its meaning then would be?

[Munsu]

Menos can mean minus too, depending on the context.

Like 2-1 = two minus one = dos menos uno

[Meteros]

aren't intended spellings of most of the main arrancar spelled out on some of the manga covers?

[XanBcoo]

bagandscalpel: That one I do not agree too. Great Minuses would be "Los Grandes Menores" and not "Menos Grande".

PS: Just reminding whoever doesn't know... Im Mexican.


EDIT:

Bud: your explanation came after I posted my own post. And that way is more convincing. I mean, it makes bagandscalpel's more convincing.


Vast Lord is portuguese? Now that one is one I didn't know. Its meaning then would be?

To clarify, I had actually used the term "big Minus" when I was talking to bagandscalpel. One of the things I had to hammer into my head about Spanish was the difference between "Gran" and "Grande" (the difference here being "Un menos grande" as opposed to "un gran menos"). Since "Minus" is the opposite of "Plus" (or good spirits, in the Bleach universe) I think that it makes perfect sense.

Originally, like you Ryouga, I also thought Menos Grande meant "less big" until I actually sat down and thought about it.

I wonder what Chad thinks of all these Spanish terms being thrown around.

[Munsu]

Vast Lord is portuguese? Now that one is one I didn't know. Its meaning then would be?

Vasto Lorde is apparently Portuguese, and it means Vast Lord.

And what it means? well vast means very great in degree or intensity, for example, "vast skills". So this means that these are Lords like no other, of great strength etc...

[dsparil]

I'm from the Dominican Republic (Spanish speaking country in the Caribbean), so I'll try to clarify the meaning of Menos Grande.

Menos usually means less, minus and/or negative; however, it can also mean lesser or inferior depending on the context used.
Grande usually means big, but can also be referred to as giant depending on the context.

As a Bleach viewer and fan, I believe the best way to translate Menos Grande into English would be "Lesser Giants". The reasoning for this translation is that the Gillians are inferior compared to all the other Menos, and they are giant in comparison to them as well.

With that said, The Hollow group that are classified as Menos refers to the meaning of less or negative(as other Spanish speakers on this forum has mentioned); thus Menos Grande is also a play on words.

If I confused you, please let me know, and I'll try to clear it up.

[XanBcoo]

I'm from the Dominican Republic (Spanish speaking country in the Caribbean), so I'll try to clarify the meaning of Menos Grande.

Menos usually means less, minus and/or negative; however, it can also mean lesser or inferior depending on the context used.
Grande usually means big, but can also be referred to as giant depending on the context.

As a Bleach viewer and fan, I believe the best way to translate Menos Grande into English would be "Lesser Giants". The reasoning for this translation is that the Gillians are inferior compared to all the other Menos, and they are giant in comparison to them as well.

With that said, The Hollow group that are classified as Menos refers to the meaning of less or negative(as other Spanish speakers on this forum has mentioned); thus Menos Grande is also a play on words.

If I confused you, please let me know, and I'll try to clear it up.

I think it's more logical to assume that Menos Grande means "Big Minus" (Big Hollow) since by the time they were introduced, Kubo Tite probably hadn't thought up the idea of Vasto Lordes and Adjuchases. Though you could be right, I don't think Kubo had the foresight to name them in such a way.

Also, I think "Menos Grande" seems to be a blanket term for all classifications of Menos, and not just Gillians. Or am I wrong? I haven't really watched Bleach in a while.

[dsparil]

I think it's more logical to assume that Menos Grande means "Big Minus" (Big Hollow) since by the time they were introduced, Kubo Tite probably hadn't thought up the idea of Vasto Lordes and Adjuchases. Though you could be right, I don't think Kubo had the foresight to name them in such a way.

Also, I think "Menos Grande" seems to be a blanket term for all classifications of Menos, and not just Gillians. Or am I wrong? I haven't really watched Bleach in a while.

If what you say is true, the translation would be "Great Minus" and not "Big Minus" because there is nothing big about the other Menos. (Grande can also mean "Great", it slipped my mind)

For example:
Ese hombre se ha hecho grande.
That man has made himself great.

Note: Like you said, he probably didn't have the foresight of the new Menos at the time, so he could have meant "Big Minus" at the beginning, but now means "Great Minus" after introducing the new types.

I bet fansubbers run into many debates like this when subbing from Japanese to English. I guess this is only a little taste. Hahahhahajajajaja

[Harima Kenji]

After a little search on google, I found that Espada (The highest of the arrancar) is some sort of fish from Madeira. I couldn't find anything else besides recipies, so I'm not sure if there is a connection at all. The fish does look quite vicious...

[Kraco]

I couldn't find anything else besides recipies...

Well, at least Ichigo & co don't anymore need to ponder what to do with the bodies left behind when the fight is finally over. Assuming, of course, they are good enough recipes.

[XanBcoo]

If what you say is true, the translation would be "Great Minus" and not "Big Minus" because there is nothing big about the other Menos. (Grande can also mean "Great", it slipped my mind)

For example:
Ese hombre se ha hecho grande.
That man has made himself great.

Man, you didn't even read the thread, did you? RyougaZell (and I) already dismissed this translation. "Great" when used as an adjective in Spanish is usually placed in front of the verb in the form of "Gran" or in the plural form of "Grandes". It doesn't make sense the way you're trying to translate it.

I'm pretty certain "Menos Grande" translates to "Big Minus".

Edit: Also "Espada" means "Sword".

[animus]

The positioning of the words could just be a total error on Kubo's part. He's not the most able planner after all.

[Munsu]

After a little search on google, I found that Espada (The highest of the arrancar) is some sort of fish from Madeira. I couldn't find anything else besides recipies, so I'm not sure if there is a connection at all. The fish does look quite vicious...

I'm pretty sure he means to use it as "sword". You never use "espada" alone to refer to the fish, you say "pez espada" just as you would say swordfish.

You guys also need to put into context of when "Menos Grande" was introduced. I'm sure Kubo didn't plan the Arrancar arc when he introduced that name. When he introduced the name, all the Menos Grande appeared as giants, so you can't disprove that the intent was for it to mean "big" just because now recently we've been introduced with human sized menos.

And as animus said, Kubo probably doesn't have command over the language, so we have to be careful about disproving intended meanings just because of wrong syntax used.

[dsparil]

Man, you didn't even read the thread, did you? RyougaZell (and I) already dismissed this translation. "Great" when used as an adjective in Spanish is usually placed in front of the verb in the form of "Gran" or in the plural form of "Grandes". It doesn't make sense the way you're trying to translate it.

I'm pretty certain "Menos Grande" translates to "Big Minus".

Edit: Also "Espada" means "Sword".

Teh internet is serious business!

RyougaZell and you dismissed "Great Minus" because of grammar, but I'm dismissing "Big Minus" because of definition. The other two Menos are not big in the sense of size, so calling them that is illogical.

Whether he had a different meaning for the Menos Grande at the begining doesn't mean that it holds the same meaning today. Otherwise, the term Menos Grande should only apply to the Gillians if he wants to keep the original meaning intact

Translation is a complicated issue, and that is why no one's translation will ever be perfect. You can especially see big debates with the different translations of the Bible(no intention of bringing religion into this). The only one who knows who has the right translation is the creator of Bleach and no one else.

[animus]

People are also dismissing the fact that their arguements are based on direction transliteration of words from Spanish to English. Whereas in Kubo's mind it would be from Japanese to Spanish, or Spanish to Japanese. These definitions are quite subjective, especially when you're arguing using a language that the author did intend to be used for.