HD-DVD or Blu-ray

[Assertn]

So overall I would say Blue-ray has the edge as long as the PS3 is a sucess.

** ruh roh! **

[Aeon]

** ruh roh! **

I stopped reading when I saw Xbox 360 Community Blogcast

[samsonlonghair]

I won't be getting an HD tv any time in the next three years, so it doesn't matter to me.

Still, just for fun, I'll guess HDDVD based on history. Currently, HDDVD players are cheaper to produce. RCA's video record players never sold because the player was too damn expensive.

Blu-Ray is being championed (primarily) by Sony, right? Let's take a look at Sony's other formats: Betamax, Video8, MMCD, Mini-CD, SDDS 7.1, Memory Stick, ATRAC encoding, and UMD. Let's also not forget those lovely CDs with a free rootkit installed. Aside from 3.25 floppies Sony has not had many sucessful formats. I'm guessing that Blu-Ray will go the same way.

[Kraco]

Well, I wasn't going to post at all in this thread, but after Samson's post I guess I'll post just to join the not concerned chorus. Maybe after two or three years I'll have a look at this. Right now I haven't even upgraded my single layer dvd burner to a double layer one, because doudle layer DVDs still have a too bad price / capacity ratio compared to single layer ones. Who knows how long it will take for Bluray and HDDVD to reach a good enough ratio. And besides, I don't think burners will be plentiful enough to get cheap in the immediate future.

I simply can't choose either with the info and facts now available. But like el_boss said, Bluray does have a cooler name. HDDVD was just invented by some computer algorithm... No human would come up with a name that unimaginative.

[complich8]

Who knows how long it will take for Bluray and HDDVD to reach a good enough ratio.

4 years, give or take. 8 years ago, burning cds was a bit extravagant (burners >>$100, media >$1/disk), 4 years ago burning cds was cheap ($30 burners, $0.25 media) and burning dvds was expensive (>$100 burners, >$2.00 media). Now burning dvds is cheap ($0.25/disc, $30-$35 burners) and Blu-ray is ... umm ... not really there ($600-$800 burners, $13ish/disc). I'm predicting a 4 year cycle ... by 2010, blu-ray and hd-dvd will be viable storage solutions for normal, economically conscious consumers.

But right now, I'd rather have LTO4 .

[Assertn]

I stopped reading when I saw Xbox 360 Community Blogcast

Haha that's fine.....but from my understanding the writer of that article also owns a PS3 himself....and none of it seemed very biased, but rather is merely observations not unlike the ones I've seen firsthand. But it's cool, turn a blind eye if you must.

[Spiegel]

But right now, I'd rather have LTO4 .

I had no clue what the heck that was so i went to Wikipedia (Mans Best Friend) and I would love that too, But then again I am also one to say I wish the 1TB florescent multi-layer disk actually worked as just wasn't a Flop. The FMD is now known as a DMD though. the articles for both are as follows:

FMD: Here
DMD: Here

[KitKat]

I have to admit that the price of the PS3 has severely biased me against Blu-ray. It's even pushed me back to Nintendo, after years and years of being a hardcore playstation girl. As a result, Blu-ray annoys me for reminding me that Sony is being dumb and making their new system so far out of my price range. It might as well be a million dollars, for all that I can afford it. Well, not that I'd be buying any sort of new electronics in the near future at all, but still, if I was, I'd shake my fist full of money at Blu-ray. *shakes empty fist*

[Bucket]

Well, the porn industry claims to be backing HD-DVD. If that ends up being the case, I think it's a no-brainer.

[xDarkMaster]

Looks like more trouble for PS3/Blu-ray fans.

[DDBen]

Haha that's fine.....but from my understanding the writer of that article also owns a PS3 himself....and none of it seemed very biased, but rather is merely observations not unlike the ones I've seen firsthand. But it's cool, turn a blind eye if you must.

That artical covers a very small amount of time assuming it was done on december 28th then the statement the units had been there sense Saturday would mean that on Christmas eve they had 5 in the store ready to buy. I don't exactly believe the artical for that reason alone. Also I'm in the Northeast and at this time have not seen a PS3 for sale in a store period. Given I'm not searching daily and I have no interest in paying $600 for the machine at this time. In the end it comes down to the site is biased, the information is NOT complete and The writer has no credability to me.

If this is a actual widespread issue it would be over all the major tech news sites not just a random ProXbox 360 blog.

Looks like more trouble for PS3/Blu-ray fans.

Ok so they have made a tripple layer disk. Now before that matters in the slightest tell me cost and burn times. If a tripple layer disk takes 3X the time and cost of a single layer disk and a double layer takes only 2X chances are that tripple layer is not viable at all right now.

[Assertn]

Also I'm in the Northeast and at this time have not seen a PS3 for sale in a store period.

I stopped by a few Gamestops in Michigan before new years and have seen firsthand several PS3s that, as the employee stated, had been sitting there for at least 5 days. Not only that, but more systems were returning to the store because they kept breaking.

In the end it comes down to the site is biased, the information is NOT complete and The writer has no credability to me.

Want a more credible source? Be my guest.

I just took the first result of a quick google search, but there's plenty of other sources out there.

Ok so they have made a tripple layer disk. Now before that matters in the slightest tell me cost and burn times. If a tripple layer disk takes 3X the time and cost of a single layer disk and a double layer takes only 2X chances are that tripple layer is not viable at all right now.

Even if they do cost more, the important thing is you (theoretically) wouldn't need a new piece of hardware to read them if you already own an HDDVD player.

Also, lolz at burn times. Obviously you are not looking at the HD war the same way 95% of everyone else is.

[DDBen]

I stopped by a few Gamestops in Michigan before new years and have seen firsthand several PS3s that, as the employee stated, had been sitting there for at least 5 days. Not only that, but more systems were returning to the store because they kept breaking.


Want a more credible source? Be my guest.

I just took the first result of a quick google search, but there's plenty of other sources out there.


Even if they do cost more, the important thing is you (theoretically) wouldn't need a new piece of hardware to read them if you already own an HDDVD player.

Also, lolz at burn times. Obviously you are not looking at the HD war the same way 95% of everyone else is.

My mistake the artical does say its from someone in Dallas. Reguardless none of the google articals are from anyone who has done actual research. A sure fire way to find out iif Bestbuy is really having a issue selling them or if Sony is just properly supplying them is going to www.bestbuy.com. As they are sold out online I highly doubt that stores are having any issues moving them. Its a $600 console system I agree thats quite high and I've never been handed anything that expensive as a gift. Its not something grandma is going to pick up for her 9 grandkids and at the same time either is a $400 X-box.

Also Note Walmart.com only has $700 20gb bundles and $900+ 20GB ($1000+ 60GB) bundles available online. www.Newegg.com has some of the 60GB systems at retail online (note they are ONLY online). www.amazon.com only has scalpers. www.nextag.com can't find any from various sites. I'd say overall sony has pretty steady sales.

As far as burn times go for a tripple layer HD-DVD vs a Double layer Blue-ray disk goes. Its a fact if the disks take longer to make they cost more to make and thats a serious issue for anyone trying to make and sell those disks. Currently Blu-ray and HD-DVD disks cost about the same at retail a average of $30 a disk. Also the double layer disks for both cost about the same to make. So I can only assume a Tripple layer disk is less cost effective then a Dual-layer if both are the same size.

[Assertn]

Reguardless none of the google articals are from anyone who has done actual research.

Done any research? What more research needs to be done than to walk into a Best buy to see a pile of ps3s lying there, and maybe asking an employee how long they've been there? Some of the articles were even written by best buy employees and they took pictures of amusing things they've done with all the boxes of ps3s lying around. I also found articles of people talking about the fact that they aren't being sold online. Spend a few minutes and do some actual research yourself if you want to actually argue something, otherwise you just make yourself sound like a raving fanboy.

I'd say overall sony has pretty steady sales.

Wups, no actual research done here

As far as burn times go for a tripple layer HD-DVD vs a Double layer Blue-ray disk goes. Its a fact if the disks take longer to make they cost more to make and thats a serious issue for anyone trying to make and sell those disks.

Sure it's a fact that taking longer costs more money, but you're assuming triple layer takes noticeably longer. Ever wonder why software, music, and movies you buy off the shelf looks different on the read side than a disc you burn off your own computer? It's because the data is baked into those discs when they're manufactured, rather than afterwards. The time-consuming process of converting digital to microscopic trenches may be longer, but manufacturers only have to do that once to create the blueprints. Afterwards its just a simple task of stamping duplicated layers of those microscopic trenches. You don't honestly think they sit there with thousands dvd burners, converting the same digital data to hardware the whole time, do you?

[DDBen]

PS3 sales data as of jan 13th 2007.
http://www.latimes.com/technology/la...nes-technology

Sony's PlayStation 2 came in second, still running strong six years after its release. It sold 1.4 million units during December amid shortages of its successor, the PS3, which sold 490,700 units in December and 687,300 since its November launch.

So thats about 700,000 blu-ray players in the last 2 months that people own or atleast Sony considers sold. I highly doubt HD-DVD players are selling at near that rate. The fact they arn't selling out before hitting shelves post Christmas is normal. Reguardless the X-box 360 does not come with a built in HD-DVD drive and its not used for any of the content its purely for the movies. As such they are far less likely to get people to buy a $200 accessory that has nothing to do with gameplay.

So there you go some research based on actual data rather then random people posting online. Also note I don't think the PS3 is currently worth the asking price nor do I think its the best overall system at this time. I do think in a year it will be but this topic is about the Blu-ray player vs HD-DVD and the point remains that every PS3 sold is another Blu-Ray player in someones house.


Also Yes AssertnFailure I do realise how commercial disks are made vs ones you burn at home. No they don't look that differn't usually its just color. That aside its going to take longer to make a multilayer disk and cost more then for one with a single layer. I'm assuming the same cost problem holds true for dual vs tripple layer disks. This is pretty clear being that when buying a DVD for home use they tend to use single layer media and provide multiple disks rather then use multilayer media on one disk. Now given I don't have all the data on the tripple layer HD-DVD's nor do I care enough to keep digging.

Finally any HD-DVD players out now likely can't read tripple layer disks. Not all DVD players can read dual layer disks either. So if they change the standard in HD-DVD and invalidate currently existing players they are just shooting themself in the foot. Given HD-DVD could be differn't in this respect and not have that problem but unless I see a statement saying thats the case I'll assume the worst with Microsoft.

[Kraco]

This is pretty clear being that when buying a DVD for home use they tend to use single layer media and provide multiple disks rather then use multilayer media on one disk. Now given I don't have all the data on the tripple layer HD-DVD's nor do I care enough to keep digging.

Finally any HD-DVD players out now likely can't read tripple layer disks. Not all DVD players can read dual layer disks either.

I doubt a DVD player that can't read dual layer has ever been manufactured, unless the very earliest ones. Dual layer DVDs are the standard for movies. Some HK versions might prefer single layer. But they are hardly concerned about video quality.

[Assertn]

So there you go some research based on actual data rather then random people posting online.

You mean the part that says "amid shortages of its successor"?

Ya dewd, sweet fax

Of course there's no value in the random postings of people online. It's not like Time dedicated the cover of their "Person of 06" to random posters or anything. Oh wait.....they did..... Ah well, screw archived conversations depicting mountains of unsold consoles, this more credible site wrote a single line informing me that the PS2's successor had "experienced shortages."

I lost the energy and motivation to participate in console wars years ago. Anyone else want to switch hit this?

[DDBen]

You mean the part that says "amid shortages of its successor"?

Ya dewd, sweet fax

Of course there's no value in the random postings of people online. It's not like Time dedicated the cover of their "Person of 06" to random posters or anything. Oh wait.....they did..... Ah well, screw archived conversations depicting mountains of unsold consoles, this more credible site wrote a single line informing me that the PS2's successor had "experienced shortages."

I lost the energy and motivation to participate in console wars years ago. Anyone else want to switch hit this?

What on earth are you trying to prove here AssertnFailure none of my posts are purely about console wars they are about Blu-ray players in american homes VS HD-TV players.
Just because you have a anti-PS3 hardon for whatever reason doesn't mean you need to keep spamming a topic that isn't about them. Sure stores might have some in stock now but certainly not doomsday numbers. Sony was chartering private Jets to get as many into the US for Christmas as possible and sooner or later a $600 device hits saturation.

Reguardless the point that your ignoring for whatever reason is that about 700,000 PS3's which are Blu-Ray players are in American homes right now and I highly doubt HD-DVD is even close to that number at the moment.

Also enough with the trolling and worthless comments either post facts and actual data or stop wasting everyone time posting. Your a mod and comments where your rolling your eye's and adding nothing to the conversation make you look like a fool.


Kraco Several early DVD players had issues playing DVD's like "The Matrix" upon its release. Its far from unheard of for new tech not to be backwards compatable and being that most people who have HD-DVD players likely didn't just buy them there is a very good chance it isn't fully backwards compatable. Its entirely possible it is and feel free to research it and post anything where that claim is made.

[Assertn]

What on earth are you trying to prove here AssertnFailure none of my posts are purely about console wars they are about Blu-ray players in american homes VS HD-TV players.
Just because you have a anti-PS3 hardon for whatever reason doesn't mean you need to keep spamming a topic that isn't about them.

Uhh what? You're being a hypocritical idiot, dude.

Nintendo's been making just as much effort to saturate the market as Sony has, yet nobody ever says wiis are in stock. I spent 2 minutes composing a response to your first post in this topic that expressed the personal observation I've made even from a casual trip to a game store, never having anticipated that people would go through the effort to challenge it so bluntly. Sooner or later, you're going to have to accept that the PS3 simply isn't carrying the momentum that was initially anticipated.

What does this have to do with video formats? EVERYTHING
If the PS3 flops, then Sony'll be suffering both their game and movie divisions. You said that that "Blue ray has the edge as long as the PS3 succeeds." Well I say that the Blue ray will fail unless the PS3 succeeds.

Your constant reiteration of requiring me to compound exact figures complete with footnotes to credible sources makes you sound like someone who's trying to be told that their puppy died but, being at the denial stage, they refuse to accept the stone dead corpse to be their's without a DNA test. Please, show me a chart depicting PS3's contribution to the format war if you insist on operating this topic at that level. (And don't forget to cite your references)

*References to how Sony is screwing over their game and movie divisions:
http://enterpriseinnovator.com/index...&sectionID=269
http://www.technologypundits.com/ind...article_id=370

*Reference to (gasp) a PS3 available for purchase online:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-...cm_cat=1528250

*Reference to Wii (bundled, no less) at the same online store...not available:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Wii/s...gorySpecial.do

[ChaosK]

*Reference to (gasp) a PS3 available for purchase online:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-...cm_cat=1528250

It's available in one store in Holyoke, and out of stock at others...and does anyone else (unless you live there) actually know of Holyoke?

Assertn, you can't argue the fact that you are 100% biased in your reviews of the PS3 without owning one to say the least.

For whatever reason it may be, you have an undying hate for the PS3. You keep insisting the PS3 will fail, yet the only way to tell is to wait maybe a year and a half and then see.

Those (however many it may be, I'll use DBBen's figures for now) 700,000 people who own a PS3 obviously aren't going to go buy a HD-DVD player when they already own a blu ray player. And most people probably won't buy either (for the time being). Let's think, if the PS3 is a blu ray player...that means if PS3 sales are greater than a HD-DVD player then...ding? blu ray is winning.