I think you are contradicting yourself a bit. If he has troubles accepting violence, it does not make him more likely to finish off his enemies in any hurry. It would seem more likely he would try to capture them alive after rendering them unable to fight.Originally Posted by kooshi
If he really tried to kill Zero the first chance he gets in foaming fury, then he would be nothing but a hypocrite.
I think Suzaku is already a hypocrite to an extent. During this episode he was in a mission to not leave any survivors. While he expressed his discontent with this, he seemed ready to follow those orders and this sorta goes against the whole "pacifist" thing.
Also, it seems like a vast majority of people do not like Nina the Euphemia Obssesed creepy girl, myself included.
It'd be cool if she started posing a threat to Euphemia and the whole thing ended up with Suzaku killing her to protect Euphemia. Oh how fitting that would be.
Hehe, like I said in that post, my thinking might not be rational, which you just showed me.
Ep 13 was a can of whoop ass.
I dont think what Lelouch did was low at all. The rebels would have died either way, and as he said, if the black knights had appeared earlier, it would only end up in both of them (black knights and Japanese rebels) being defeated. It was just the best and most effective plan in that situation, and in a sense may have reduced overall casualties in the end if his plan of killing Cornelia succeeded.
Following this line of thought, Suzaku is actually increasing the body count each time he interferes with Lelouchs plans, since this only leads to more battles. If he really wanted to end it, he should have killed Zero ages ago. Its quite obvious now that Lelouch isnt that great of a pilot, which makes one wonder how he has survived numerous battles with the lancelot, each lasting usually more than a minute. The lancelot usually takes up like 3 seconds to kill a knightmare.
Peace.
Ho... That's quite peculiar thinking. Sounds like the line of thought of a totalitarian general or the dictator himself: "If some group is going to die with high probability, it's all the same if I kill 'em all myself." I don't think it quite works that way. Lelouch used killing a whole bunch of people basically as a diversion, because Cornelia wasn't really expecting that. This was probably the lowest deed he has done. Still, it kind of suits him. Let's hope it's not his downfall, if the truth gets revealed at some point.
Keep in my that Lelouch is not trying to kill Cornelia. He wants her alive. She's the one who went all suicidal at Narita when he actually had her completely cornered. Here, he expressed that he was going to force her to come with him alive.
He still has to ask her a few things.
Oh, thats right. He still does have business with Cornelia. That saves me from hating Shirley for being there, since even if she wasnt, Cornelia wouldnt have been captured anyway, since the Lancelot came in about 4.5 seconds.
I dont think its a mere diversion though, since a lot of the enemy knightmares were actually wiped out in the blast. Also, it served as a surprise attack starter. Without it, he wouldnt really have a chance to confront Cornelia again. Still, it depends on the person on what is low or what isnt anyway. I must admit I really like Lelouch because of this side of him. I am sickand tired of hypocrites babbling about justice and being correct and all that dreamy sissy stuff.
Peace.
Good ep, goddamn lancelot is pissing me off though, acting like kira from seed, the bitch should die, anyway, what lelouch did wasn't low at all, it was pure and simple strategy, there is no use in protecting someone, if that person is going to die anyway is there?
Like taking the bullet and dying, just to have that person be shot by a second bullet, 2 lives gone for nothing, lelouch did what he had to, for the lowest number of casualties.
I rewatched the episode, and unfortunately, even Lelouch doesnt agree with us darkshadow. He did clearly say something about having to do things no matter how cheap they are in order to win. He probably felt what he was going to do was low himself, and it seems his speech to Karen was more directed toward himself to aleviate himslef of guilt.
But, when it comes to war, he did take the most efficient path. I like this contradiction though, since it just goes to show that Lelouch is human, and makes him a believable character. If he had become cold steel like Light in Death Note, I would probably start to like him less.
Peace.
Indeed. It also needs to be remembered that it's no sign of strength to be able to make excuses for one's actions, no matter how low and vile. A strong person who knows he must do what needs to be done to achieve a greater purpose can do low things knowing fully well just how low those things were. He doesn't need to twist the truth and try to explain this and that, trying to make it sound perfectly honourable to himself. It's a different thing what should be told to his underlings, though. It could very well be much better if they don't think any compromises had to be made. And that's what happened.
Like shinta|hikari suggested in his last paragraph, I also will like Lelouch much more as long as he knows, himself, that he must accept sacrifices and ill deeds in order to gain greater victories. If he at some point begins to believe everything he does is automatically right, like Light, then some part of me is going to start to hope for his defeat.
If he believed everything he did was right, then he would convert into Suzaku.
Suzaku believes he can change things by being pacifist, but, like others have stated, is a hypocrite for working for those that killed his father.
When CC gave him those illusions, the dissapointed face of that man who I assume is his father was priceless.
Actually Suzaku feel more like a Mix of Athrun and Kira to me.
Naive notion that everything can be solve without death. check
Confuse and is now working under others that might not have the same ideals as him because of his father. check
Love interest is a pink hair girl who just happen to be the leader of the nation and will probably gain a ridiculous amount of power. check
Has a best friend who is on the opposite side because of personal belief. check
about the only thing missing is the ability to activate Kira mode and obliterate the enemies mech without killing the pi......... nvm he doesn't even need to activate it because he can do that normally. check
Except he keeps killing other people, and doesn't even try to not kill them... At least Kira decided and made a conscious effort to only hit non-vital parts. Suzaku takes the extremes, either sits around looking confused or totally killing everything in his way...
O, and the OST is out
http://tracker.minglong.org/torrents...ck.zip.torrent
Kira decided that only after he got convinced by Lacus. Maybe that is what is going to happen to Suzaku as well, with Euphie taking the other role. I hope this wont happen though, since it would overload him with Seed similarities, whcih may affect my rating on the originality of code geass. Still, I hope he doesnt stay that long and just dies.
Ideas on Suzakus death, rated 1-5
1. Killed knowingly by Zero for his ideals using geass.
2. Killed unknowingly by Zero for his ideals.
3. Raped and killed by Nina, because of jealousy.
4. Blown up by the Guren because too busy making a speech about Zeros misdeeds.
5. Dies from heart attack because of stress from excessive worrying over justice.
Peace.
Number 5 sounds like something Kira would write. I'm pretty sure I tripped a couple people up by referring to the Death Note Kira.
Anyways, at this point I'm all up for Suzaku meeting an untimely end. His character would be a bit more bearable if it weren't so full of hypocrisies and contradictions.
I really don't see him as much of an hypocrite as some of you guys do. I actually see a lot of similarities between him and Lelouch. As mentioned before by you guys, Lelouch sacrifices and does evil deeds "in order to gain greater victories". And I feel that Suzaku is pretty much doing the same thing. He wants to change Britannia, but he feels the only way to do it is from the inside. How do you expect for him to accomplish this if he's constantly acting against orders? It has been shown that they don't think twice about executing a traitor.
Also, someone stated that Lelouch wasn't that great of a pilot because he lasted more than 1 minute against the Lancelot, when Knightmares usually last 3 seconds? I don't see your point, if that's the case than that makes Lelouch a pretty good pilot.
And come on, can't we have some other argument to discredit Suzuku other than he's the same as Kira? We've been over the same crap since the first episode. We already know that he has shown many similarities to him, so why keep bringing it up? If I wanted to discuss Gundam SEED, I would simply go to the Mobile Suit Gundam forum. This is turning out as the same shitty discussions that were happening in the Naruto forums and the Dragonball comparisons. And also, for those that feel that Kira was naive to think he could solve things without killing people, well guess what he pretty much acomplished it. And to quote my friend Arc, "he knows deaths have to happen, he just doesn't want to kill". And if you're skilled enough to accomplish this, why not give it a try?
On the 1st part, I said that he wasnt that great of a pilot because of his performance in the battle against cornelia, where he got one of his arms destroyed in like 2 seconds. I didnt refer to it clearly since the discussion was about the events in that episode and should be read in that context. What I said was that it was strange how he lasted that long against the lancelot, when he shouldnt have the skills to do so.
On the 2nd part, we dont judge him because he is the same as kira, but rather because he has the same bad qualities as him. Even if Kira did not exist, everyone would hate him for being a hypocrite, and maybe even make him the archetype kira is now. I have to say that I really like kira, so I really dont like comparing him to suzaku (who i hate) either, but to prove my point, it was a good comparison. But as you wish, then we can stop the comparisons here, its not necessary to discredit him anyway.
BTW, the 1st part was actually an argument discrediting Suzakus piloting skills, totally unrelated to seed. It seems he can only take down noob pilots in weak units. Even an average pilot like lelouch (which I believe he is) can survive multiple encounters with him.
Peace.
We can't really prove it from that though, because we only know so many pilots.
Above Average: "Orange"-kun, Viletta, Lelouch
Aces: Kallen, Toudou, Cornelia (and her guards), Suzaku
Suzaku has only fought against Kallen among the other aces, and the only pilots that seem to be similar to Lelouch are on the same side. It doesn't really prove anything either way since we don't really get to see a lot of long Knightmare battles.
I don't think Suzaku is that annoying. heh, without him the show would have been over 3 eps ago. I'm all for entertainement... and that's what Lancelot messing up Zero's plan is.
In real life, i have to say, it'd be hard to be for Zero's actions. 1st most people wouldn't know of his bigger plan, and second, even if they did, ppl don't seem to like someone who might betray them this way, even if for the greater good. For example, i very much doubt ppl would be for a war to, say, force countries to behave ecologically, even though a lot of ppl in industrialized countries believe the Earth is gonna blow up if we don't (whether or not its true, its what they believe).
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