Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion

[shinta|hikari]

Haha, well the last part wasnt serious argument at all, just something to add to suzaku bashing. It was more of a joke than anything, since there is absolutely no logic behind it. Sorry if I wasnt able to express that clear enough. But, since it has been brought up, it is in fact insufficent to gauge suzakus skills as a pilot, but it is obvious that he is an ace and my whole point was that it was strange how Lelouch survived for so long not being on the same level as him. Then I realized the answer. Its because he cant die, he is the hero of the story.

Following this line of thought, Suzaku is probably a great pilot, since he was an even match to the Guren and owned so many knighmares before. I am going to be fair so that valid arguments against Suzaku dont get snubbed and labeled as ungrounded or repetitive.

On another note, saying Suzaku is not annoying because he is an important plot element doesnt make sense, since even with a completely different personality and intentions, as long as he interferes in the fights, the story will progress. He doesnt have to be obsessed with being right like he is.

What I dont like about Suzaku isnt his convictions about justice, since that in itself is a positive attitude. The problem is his ego, and his belief that only his way is correct, and any other method is "wrong". Even Lelouch admits that what he is doing is sometimes cheap, meaning he accepts the pros and cons, as well as the rightness and wrongness of his actions. Suzaku doesnt, and he perfectly believes everything he is doing right now is free of sin, and doesnt have any similarity to Zero. On that note, I hate him to death. (that is a kira free argument by the way)

Its so easy to blame others and label them as wrong, since one can never completely assume anothers point of view. I like Lelouch on this point, since he respected Suzakus choice of changing things in his own way, though he called him an idiot (which he is). He could have just geassed him into allying with him, or to leave the military completely, but he didnt despite knowing the risk they might fight someday.

Suzaku never even attempts such a thing, and is hell bent on stopping Zero for doing things he himself has done quite a number of times (namely killing).

To change the topic, I wonder how he will react when he finds out Zeros identity. He was even willing to throw away his life for Lelouch before (I like this part about him), but if he finds out his identity, what will he choose?

[Mae]

I caught up with this series recently and I have to say it's better than what I thought it would be at first. I've always liked revenge-driven characters, so Lelouche appeals to me.

But to jump in on the Suzuka debate, I don't really get all the hate. Suzuka's people were conquered, and I think that if he believed the resistance had a real chance he'd join them. But at the start of the series you can see that Brittania had overwhelming force on their side, so he decides that the best thing he can do is sign up with them and try to change things from the inside and minimize the suffering of the 11's. He thinks the rebel cause is hopeless and is just making things worse, and really he has a point.

It's not like he's unwilling to kill. I mean, he IS a soldier. He just would like to minimize it, which doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. It's not like he thought killing the helpless soldiers on the boat was a good thing, and he obviously has his issues (like when CC drove him nuts, I wonder if he killed his father like Lelouche wants to kill his).

Zero is in the way of his goals, stirring up the fight that Suzuka's trying to quash. Of course he'd get pissed off at him.

And he's right, Lelouche really is just using people. He's not fighting for the good the 11's. He's just made their resistance into a tool to get his revenge. It's not like he's totally indifferent to the deaths he causes, so his character isn't entirely evil, but also he's made it clear that they won't be enough to stop him. I liked his speech about how he doesn't want to waste the lives he's sacrificed. So what he needs to do is sacrifice a bunch more, apparently. Somehow I don't think he's going to end well.

[Kraco]

I liked his speech about how he doesn't want to waste the lives he's sacrificed. So what he needs to do is sacrifice a bunch more, apparently. Somehow I don't think he's going to end well.

I think Lelouch likes to burn bridges. Not only for the sake of the moral and fighting spirit of his troops, but also for the sake of his own determination. It can't be easy to initiate a lonely fight against a world power, and most people, no matter how brave, would likely hesitate and postpone doing that, rightfully afraid it would never avail much. Doing bigger and more drastic things will tie him tighter and tighter to the action.

[shinta|hikari]

Yeah, and changing things from the inside really is going well compared to the rebellion, oh please. So far, all hes done by joining the britannians is to save their leader 2-3 times, and kill a lot of japanese rebels. Way to go in lessening the suffering of 11s.

Even if he thinks the rebellion is hopeless from the beginning, when Zero invited him he should have realized that they now had at least a fighting chance. But that really isnt the point. Suzaku didnt join not because it is hopeless. He probably thinks it is easier to fight that way, but he has a problem with the way of doing things, like he said to Zero before. Suzaku is not the type to care about overwhelming force, he does what he thinks he is right. As evidence, he even almost sacrificed his life for lelouch, and he even went back to face the charges against him when lelouch saved him.

I like some parts about Suzaku, but as a whole I hate him too much. Ive already said too much about it so that ends here.

BTW, watched ep 14, and here are my impressions:

SPOILER!!!




IT WAS SOOOO GOOOD!!!




END OF SPOILER!!!!

[masamuneehs]

saw 13, and man Lelouch is a pretty big bastard.... and the JLF are rather shitty at monitoring their ships... If Cornellia hadn't wanted to take that General alive, she could have just sent in a small covert ops team to plant a bomb on them.

i also don't get all the hate for Suzaku. As a character in an anime, he's sorta annoying at times, but he's certainly a much more likable person than Lelouch. Yes, he does get a little preachy, but there's nothing wrong with expressing your dislike for something you believe to be wrong. I think Mae really hit it on the head, he feels that the path of least resistance is best for Japan, since he views a revolution as impossible. It'd be interesting to see what Lelouch would be doing if he never got the Geass power. Without it, would he be fighting now? I seriously doubt it, since he too would see how illogical it would be. And in chess logic (and foresight) is the only thing you need

I liked the talk between Kallen and Lelouch, and that one Britannia army girl (can't remember the name) is really coming on as important. I can imagine the massive drama in next episode...

[kAi]

Suzaku contradicts himself in every sentence he speaks. He is an idiot. It doesn't really matter which way you go, you're killing people.

and why did Zero kill Shirley's dad, fuck, the Britannian government started this whole move to go up the mountain to attack the Japanese Liberation Front, Zero was there to intercept, and it was a battle. All the Britannian government do is kill a shitload of civilians, because there aren't many soldiers and rebels to fight against, yeah Suzaku chose the right team alright.

He's in a government that goes with the strong must take out the weak, and that they should be discriminated against, the only way to fix this problem is to get rid of the leaders, well get rid of the current leader, THAT is for certain!.

The Britannian people live by Oppression.

[Munsu]

14 bitches:
http://ggkthx.org/torrents/[gg]_Code_Geass_14_[156ADA4A].mkv.torrent

[Yukimura]

I think this ep was really good, but I'm not sure why. Maybe it was just the voice acting, because i'm not really sure what happened but I know I felt really sad when Lelouch was charging up his Geass on Shirley and I felt a sense of loss when he walked away from her. I felt Mao's crazed infatuation, and I could see the regret on C.C.'s face, I'm guessing because she's the one who gave him his power. I felt Villietta's desperation (which was a little thin considering she survived being shot at close range with no medical attention for the better part of a day). All in all there were several key developments not the least of which being the nice scientist lady realizing what we've all been saying about Suzaku. Now all you Kir....errr...Suzaku fans can't just say we're complaining for no reason.

[Everon]

All this tension after the battle is incredible, friends being alienated, the order of knights is showing signs of mutiny, britainnia is starting to profile Zero, another geass is in play.

I'm a little confused why Lelouch decided to completely remove himself from Shirley's memory. Won't that cause more frustration when she goes back to school and sees lelouch or even photos? I guess Lelouch is trying to clear his conscience - remove the guilt of being the torment and love of Shirley.

I've come to my own conclusion that Suzaku isn't a hypocrite. He wants to change things from the inside, but his immediate duty as a soldier leads him to killing excessively. So until he becomes promoted he'll put up with those orders. But isn't that parallel to Lelouch's? They're both willing to go justify the means to an end. And both are ridden with guilt.

[shinta|hikari]

What you said about Suzaku doesnt make sense. You just said they are both willing to go justify the means to an end. Suzaku has said numerous times how he doesnt approve of that way of thinking. Who isnt a hypocrite again?

Lelouch removing himself from shirleys memory completely is because he doesnt want her involved anymore, which is likely if he keeps her close to him. This reason is quite obvious due to the conversation between C.C. and Lelouch in the train, when she said to him that keeping the things important to you far away is a way of life.

Im thinking Lelouch isnt going back to school, since that would create chaos with Suzaku and the other students because of Shirleys missing memory. Or maybe he will think of some way to get past this, which is unlikely considering its lack of possibility.

AMEN to Yukimura.

[Kraco]

Yeah. Yuki chose his words wisely.

Im thinking Lelouch isnt going back to school, since that would create chaos with Suzaku and the other students because of Shirleys missing memory. Or maybe he will think of some way to get past this, which is unlikely considering its lack of possibility.

I don't honestly know what Lelouch was thinking when he removed himself so completely from Shirley's mind. Even if he himself stops going to school, surely other people would rather sooner than later ask Shirley if she knows anything, considering everybody probably noticed how highly Shirley thought of Lelouch. And if Shirley then asks: "Le... Wholouch?", it could also potentially create problems. It wouldn't be shrugged off as a joke when people get serious.

Some in the military already know they somehow forgot important events. If a well-known student suddenly disappeared and someone known to be close to him seemed to have genuinely totally forgotten him, it would be an important lead.

Hmm... In other news I much more prefer C.C.'s normal looks to the... doll looks in this episode.

[shinta|hikari]

It would be an important lead, but I guess that just goes to show how important he thinks of his friends. He might believe they are worth his identity being known. Viletta knows his identity anyway, so his secret wouldnt have lasted long either way.

If he completely removes himself from school and his normal life, the problem would probably be Nunnaly. Being Lelouch, would he be able to just leave her behind? If his identity would be disclosed, Nunnaly would be in danger. This part I am still having a hard time figuring out.

[Ryllharu]

I think a lot of you are missing key points with Viletta and thinking Lelouch will leave school.

Lelouch can't leave the school. Yes, he lives there, but he could just as easily live as Zero in the Black Knights van. The problem with that is that Nunnaly lives in the school and is cared for by the Ashford family. There is no feasible way he can leave her alone since the two of them are so close. I think it's more likely that Lelouch also included a command in Shirley's memory wipe, one to go away somewhere else. If he really wants to keep her out of it, that's exactly what he'll do.

As for Viletta, she's currently in the custody of Ougi. Normally, he would probably take her to a hospital, but since the only words she said pertained to Zero and he found her at the pier where they were the night before, I'm willing to bet he took her to the base (the van). It will be very interesting. Lulu will recognize her most likely, and will have to deal with her without using the Geass. Cornelia will be reported to immediately if Viletta was taken anywhere else. It makes it a pretty short series if Cornelia finds out now.

C.C.'s goth loli look was pretty amusing. I prefer her normal outfit the best, but at least this was better than the pizza delivery boy look like when she's wearing Lelouch's clothes.

It was also painfully obvious who Euphemia's Knight will be. Let's hope Suzaku has to kill Nina when she tries to molest Euphie. We all saw her blush when Nunnaly rebuked Rivalz about meeting the princess for "impure reasons." Speaking of which, I wonder if Euphie knows Nunnaly. We know Cornelia sheltered Euphie, but I don't think they were all that young when Lulu and Nunnaly left.

[Church]

I really liked this episode. I actually felt really sad at the end; I didn't think I would, but using a complete memory wipe, that's as bad as killing, maybe even worse.
C.C.'s look is... interesting... it somehow reminded me of Rozen Maiden...
From what I gathered, Viletta isn't that high on the cammand structure, so I doubt it'd be a serious problem to the Britannia military if she went AWOL.
Mao is interesting, so is he the one C.C. "talks" to? Personally I don't think so, the headphones seem weird, is that a recording?
He reminds me of Creed from Black Cat, not just in physical appearance, but he's also got the creepy, messed-up-in-the-head, nutjob mentality.

[Ryllharu]

They are headphones that play recordings of C.C.'s voice over and over. Mao is a complete and total creepy stalker. I had always figured C.C. was talking to dead ancestors or whatever. Something to do with the marks on her forehead and chest, like the ones we see in one of the openings.

Viletta isn't high on the command structure, true, but if she was in the hospital and said she had information on Zero's Identity, don't you think Cornelia would come running?

[Munsu]

It was also painfully obvious who Euphemia's Knight will be. Let's hope Suzaku has to kill Nina when she tries to molest Euphie. We all saw her blush when Nunnaly rebuked Rivalz about meeting the princess for "impure reasons." Speaking of which, I wonder if Euphie knows Nunnaly. We know Cornelia sheltered Euphie, but I don't think they were all that young when Lulu and Nunnaly left.

I'm pretty sure she would know, and I think Suzaku thinks so as well. We can see this when he was really concidering letting the students meet her, but once Nunnaly showed interest he showed a face of concern and said that it will not happen, or something along those lines.

[Church]

I wonder how the pacing will go now. It was going at break neck speed earlier, and that was only telling one main plot, Lelouch and the Rebellion. Now it has to tell the C.C./Mao plot and the Rebellion plot, unless they all somehow relate? Which would make sense since we still don't know why C.C. was around young Suzaku and young Lelouch, or was it just all coincidence?

[shinta|hikari]

I did mention the Nunnaly problem in my last post, and that is why I couldnt figure out what Lelouch is going to do. Commanding Shirley to go far away would make sense, that is, until you consider her mother who is still alive, and basically all her friends in school as well. Shirley going away or Lelouch going away has the same issues, and if followed will eventually lead to the same result - problems for Zero and the rebellion.

However, this can be solved by geassing shirleys mother as well, and then they can leave for a "valid" and believable reason. That is probably the most feasible idea so far.

We also have to consider Ougis personality and thinking when considering what will happen to Viletta. Ougi has doubts about Zero, and is aching to know his identity. It is obvious that if he takes Viletta to Zero, Zero will try to prevent the truth from being told. I am thinking Ougi will keep her somewhere til he gets the information out of her. That is the possibility I was referring to when I said Zeros identity is in danger of exposure.

C.C. appearing before when Lelouch and Suzaku were children may have been a coincidence then, but it is definitely related to her choosing Lelouch for her wish at present. C.C. chose Lelouch the moment he came near the van, despite there being other people nearer to here even before that (ie karen). This means that she made the choice beforehand, and is probably during Lelouchs youth scene.

[Munsu]

I wonder how the pacing will go now. It was going at break neck speed earlier, and that was only telling one main plot, Lelouch and the Rebellion. Now it has to tell the C.C./Mao plot and the Rebellion plot, unless they all somehow relate? Which would make sense since we still don't know why C.C. was around young Suzaku and young Lelouch, or was it just all coincidence?

I missed when C.C. appeared when they were children, at time did this occur so that I can check it out?

[Church]

The biggest was in the first 30secs of the first episode, there were also more hints and flashes along the way too; C.C.'s flashback, when Lelouch "entered" her, the new ED, and bits here and there.