Death Note

[Yukimura]

Light wouldn't be considered a totalitarian, he's not really deciding what is or isn't allowed in every aspect of people's lives. So far he's only judged people convicted of suspected of breaking established laws. He doesn't try to tell people how to live their lives or what to think, only what things they can't do. To start down the totalitarian path he'd have to start killing anyone who disagreed with his existance as this would constitute trying to forcibly stop people from behaving in ways that don't cause anyone harm other than him.

[RoCk]

"To start down the totalitarian path he'd have to start killing anyone who disagreed with his existance as this would constitute trying to forcibly stop people from behaving in ways that don't cause anyone harm other than him."

L says hi. although he didn't die under light's pen...he definitely did die through Light's actions / will.

and no, i'm not a fan of totalitarian dictatorship. I'm a fan of a characterwho wants to change his fantasy (anime) world into his creation. I'm a fan of a character who defines perfection, but at the same time is the devil himself.

I'm a fan of the man who pulls the blinds over everyones eyes, even the smartest logicians. I'm a fan of Light.

[xxkuronoxx]

Uh is it okay to ask which group subs death note in better quality?

[Animeniax]

People like Mikami are idiots. They think they're special? They think they have a good concept of human nature? You wore glasses, got picked on, and are a secretly vindictive? Go cut your wrists emo kid, that's life. Pft, getting picked on and trying to help other people doesn't give you any special insight. People like that, they struggle and struggle to gain power to realize their idea of Right and then abuse it when they have it. Naturally, they become zealous pawns for whatever organization is closest to their views... Religious fanatics, racial hierarchists, pompous nationalists. They exemplify the term "Sheople"

Add Takada (tits like elbows, btw) and Mikami to the herd. Bah, bah, bah. Ahh, but what about the original 'lamb'? What about Misa? ...seems next episode will show us...

Mikami wasn't picked on, he just drew the wrath of the bullies when he tried to stick up for other victims. Like he said, as a kid he could deal with it, being the savior and taking the lumps in defense of the weak and downtrodden. As he got older, being the savior got tougher and tougher, since he could no longer reason with the bullies to get them to stop. He's not vindictive for his own sake, but for the sake of humanity and the weak. Didn't Jesus stand for the same thing? Granted, Mikami should have beefed up and taken martial arts so he could go Steven Seagal on the bullies, but that's not going to win the war.

Lots of people feel the way the heroes in Death Note feel. That's why it's such a popular show. Who in their life hasn't seen some evil shit go down, and just wished there was a way you could stop it and punish the offender? Hoping for their death might be a bit excessive, but what's the alternative? Put them in jail, where they get worse? Teach them a lesson, then let them leave and hope they don't do it again? Like Mikami said in the episode, some people are just bad and can't reform, so there's only one way to deal with them.

[Deadfire]

Uh is it okay to ask which group subs death note in better quality?

Currently most follow one of two groups Animanda or Kuro-Hana

I personally prefer Animanda as it seems to be of better quality then Kuro-Hana. However Kuro-Hana is faster at subbing. it's up to you.

[David75]

Light and the anime are very entertaining, and that's all that matters to me.
I don't car putting transposing it to the real world, that's not my first intention
when watching an anime.

And I think it's sad when people start arguing from something meant for entertainment.

c u

[Kraco]

Light wouldn't be considered a totalitarian, he's not really deciding what is or isn't allowed in every aspect of people's lives. So far he's only judged people convicted of suspected of breaking established laws. He doesn't try to tell people how to live their lives or what to think, only what things they can't do. To start down the totalitarian path he'd have to start killing anyone who disagreed with his existance as this would constitute trying to forcibly stop people from behaving in ways that don't cause anyone harm other than him.

Actually he has shown no restraints in killing those who disagree with his existence. All those FBI agents and other people who tried to identify him and who he consequently killed do make a number. Also, if you establish an arbitrary power of killing criminals (judged so by the court or not) whose names/faces become public in some manner, you most certainly affect a major portion of people's lives. You create quite a system of fear. Of course normal people don't usually strive to become criminals of any manner, but when there's an unknown, faceless entity judging whether you are one or not and the only punishment is immediate death, it pretty much defies all aspects of the western judiciary system.

Well, traditionally those who have power without accountability eventually want more and more of it, and Light hasn't been around for so long yet, and much of his time has been spent simply to establish his power and avoiding capture, so we don't actually know how far he would go if left unchecked.

And I think it's sad when people start arguing from something meant for entertainment.

These threads, and this whole forum, are here for people to express their opinions. The really sad things are good series that never got a thread longer than one or two pages. So, when a good series like Death Note gets a thread dozens of pages long, it basically is a personification of the purpose of this place.

[xxkuronoxx]

Currently most follow one of two groups Animanda or Kuro-Hana

I personally prefer Animanda as it seems to be of better quality then Kuro-Hana. However Kuro-Hana is faster at subbing. it's up to you.

Thanks for the tip... I plan on downloading animanda's sub as soon as DN's over.. And yes quality is the priority... Thanks

[masamuneehs]

He's not vindictive for his own sake, but for the sake of humanity and the weak.

Since he personally gets to define who is weak and which part of humanity deserves being protected, which should die, I think it is for his own sake. It's his personal system of values, his personal judgment of other people, his personal crusade. He can say "I'm doing it for the good people", but honestly, he's doing it for Kira because he agrees with Kira.

If it was really "for the weak" or "humanity", then wouldn't Light or Mikami let those people be part of the judging process? They also kill people who are only accused of commiting crimes, not convicted. They don't let a jury or anybody else tell them who deserves to die, they just use their own personal judgment.

Dress it up all you like, but all Light and Kira and Misa are doing is the same as the corrupt businessman who got the Note, creating their ideal world by using god-like power. They'd never have the cooperation of people if it wasn't for this power and the fear it inspires. The only difference is the businessman didn't feel the need to rationalize his actions in a "it's for the common good" fashion.

Lots of people feel the way the heroes in Death Note feel. That's why it's such a popular show. Who in their life hasn't seen some evil shit go down, and just wished there was a way you could stop it and punish the offender? Hoping for their death might be a bit excessive, but what's the alternative? Put them in jail, where they get worse? Teach them a lesson, then let them leave and hope they don't do it again? Like Mikami said in the episode, some people are just bad and can't reform, so there's only one way to deal with them.

First, I would never call anyone except for L or Near and the honest cops and agents investigating Kira "heroes"... They're overly powerful, highly egotistical people bent on exacting their personal brand of vigilante justice.

Let's look at your logic and actually think about it. Yes, everyone has had a time when they wish they had more power so they could stop some bad shit, and/or gain retribution for a wrong done in the past. You seem to be saying that there's no hope for reforming them, so they must die. Well, I'm willing to entertain your rigid limitations of learned human behavior, even if it isn't a universal rule. If you kill everyone who makes a big mistake, they never learn from it, they just die. Everyone around them notices and says "he got killed because he did something bad" and naturally then think "If I don't want to end up that way, I better never do that!" So, out of fear of punishment, they don't. But are they really any better people, any more moral and upstanding?

NO!

They never learn WHY the punishable act is bad, or why they shouldn't do it in the first place. The only thing they learn is what their punishment would be, and the fear of that "reforms" them, keeps them in line. Worse than that, because this punishment is coming from a shadowy figure that always tells them what NOT to do, not what they should do, they never learn to behave morally, they only learn not to behave in a way that Kira might kill them for. They become trained dogs, never really understanding why they shouldn't pee on the couch, just knowing that if they do, they'll get a newspaper on the nose. Fear of punishment is not the same thing as desire to do the right thing, even if they can lead to the same kind of behavior.

Finally, let's take an example:
Late at night, you walk home alone from a bar. Someone attacks you and you fear for your life. In the ensuing struggle, you kill the man. No witnesses. The police show up and it turns out to be the DA's younger brother who attacked you. Also, imagine it's not evident that you were defending yourself. Say, for example, that the person tried to shoot you, but you shot first. The police bring you in, and the DA comes in. You reek of alcohol, have no wounds, the DA's brother has no criminal record and it turns out he was actually licensed to carry a gun. Furious about his brother's death, he charges you with homicide.

Misa/Mikami/Light watch the news. They see your face and kill you.

Now, you can imagine how similar situations could have arisen everywhere and anywhere. False charges, abuse of power, all things that aren't readily knowable for Light or Mikami or Misa, may lead to them killing innocent people. After the first instance of this, and by your own logic, Light and Misa and Mikami deserve to die.

[Uberbaka]

Ah, but in the world that they strive for there would be no need for self defense as everyone knows that you would end up dead and agree with these ideas (because they'll get killed otherwise)

If they were to just kill the convicted then it would only inspire fear of getting caught, not actually doing the act like killing everyone does very effectively.

[Yukimura]

I would think Light understands what masa is talking about with the trained behavior vs true goodness aspect. I believe that he just doesn't care. His goal is not to reform people it's to reform 'the world'. He wants to make it so that 'evil' things aren't done by people to other people, and he knows that its easier to achieve that goal by having everyone live in fear rather than having everyone be educated about the good and bad aspects of their actions.

One of my favorite fake people Dr. House recently made a good point about this kind of thing. He saved this woman's life by figuring out a medical mystery, but he didn't do it to save her life, he did it for the fun of solving the puzzle. When pressed about how this makes him a terrible person he responds "Do you think she cares why I saved her? Do you think the children she can have now will care what motivated some doctor from New Jersey to find out what made her sick and fix it?" On the same track, would the people that aren't being killed or raped or stolen from care what reason their potential assailants had for choosing not to act? Whether the bad guys thought of Kira or they were afraid of being caught by the police or because they had an epiphany and just decided they should start being good people, the end result is that the bad thing didn't happen and person X can go about their day in peace, which is all most people want. Worrying about the intentions and state of minds of criminals is a luxury for those who aren't in danger from them. For this reason people tend to, or at least should, listen more to the opinions of a person who's been through something then someone who's just observed it second hand. On the other hand of course there will be a lot of bias involved if a victim is judging their assailant, but if your goal is the elimination of interpersonal crimes then the bias will only serve to further support the notion that if you hurt someone you will be punished absolutely by a force outside both yourself and the person you hurt.

@masa: your point about the false accusations does present a pretty serious problem for Light's ideal, since if he wants to know who did what he'll always have to trust the judgment of others to some degree when deciding if they should die.

[Animeniax]

If it was really "for the weak" or "humanity", then wouldn't Light or Mikami let those people be part of the judging process? They also kill people who are only accused of commiting crimes, not convicted. They don't let a jury or anybody else tell them who deserves to die, they just use their own personal judgment.

Light is in the top-99.9% percentile of human intelligence, so why shouldn't he decide who lives and dies? Besides, the law and the police pick out who dies. Unfortunately because of people like you who don't agree with what he's doing, he has to keep his activities a secret, instead of taking polls before acting.

Dress it up all you like, but all Light and Kira and Misa are doing is the same as the corrupt businessman who got the Note, creating their ideal world by using god-like power. They'd never have the cooperation of people if it wasn't for this power and the fear it inspires. The only difference is the businessman didn't feel the need to rationalize his actions in a "it's for the common good" fashion.

The business men used the note to kill people to benefit their business, ie make money. Light and crew use it to kill people to save the world, not for any capital gains. I don't see the correlation.

They never learn WHY the punishable act is bad, or why they shouldn't do it in the first place. The only thing they learn is what their punishment would be, and the fear of that "reforms" them, keeps them in line. Worse than that, because this punishment is coming from a shadowy figure that always tells them what NOT to do, not what they should do, they never learn to behave morally, they only learn not to behave in a way that Kira might kill them for. They become trained dogs, never really understanding why they shouldn't pee on the couch, just knowing that if they do, they'll get a newspaper on the nose. Fear of punishment is not the same thing as desire to do the right thing, even if they can lead to the same kind of behavior.

You're definitely wrong about this. The criminals being killed are in the news. People see them or read about their death in the paper, and know why they died and what their crime was.

Finally, let's take an example:
Late at night, you walk home alone from a bar. Someone attacks you and you fear for your life. In the ensuing struggle, you kill the man. No witnesses. The police show up and it turns out to be the DA's younger brother who attacked you. Also, imagine it's not evident that you were defending yourself. Say, for example, that the person tried to shoot you, but you shot first. The police bring you in, and the DA comes in. You reek of alcohol, have no wounds, the DA's brother has no criminal record and it turns out he was actually licensed to carry a gun. Furious about his brother's death, he charges you with homicide.
Misa/Mikami/Light watch the news. They see your face and kill you.

Hey, mistakes will be made. If they kill a couple of innocents among the thousands of criminals, that's not a terrible ratio.

Just like Mikami says, at some age point people are not going to be rehabilitated and change their ways. So what are the options: jail them in hopes that they get rehabilitated (which we know is bs because you just get better at being a criminal when you spend years among them in jail), or kill them. I prefer the latter.

[Kraco]

Light is in the top-99.9% percentile of human intelligence, so why shouldn't he decide who lives and dies?

I totally fail to see how his presumed intelligence has anything to do with this issue? Or do you mean any top Mensa member should be allowed to kill people at random just because they are intelligent?

Unfortunately because of people like you who don't agree with what he's doing, he has to keep his activities a secret, instead of taking polls before acting.

Well, what can you do? Even during the ancient Roman empire citizens weren't allowed to kill each other at random. During the dark times of Middle Ages that somewhat lapsed, but afterwards more and more became in effect once more. It's kind of easy to get used to the idea that has seen a couple of millennia of development...

Hey, mistakes will be made. If they kill a couple of innocents among the thousands of criminals, that's not a terrible ratio.

You would have made jolly good friends with Stalin. He also thought like that: The death of one person is a tragedy, but the death of a million people is statistics.

[Yukimura]

So what are the options: jail them in hopes that they get rehabilitated (which we know is bs because you just get better at being a criminal when you spend years among them in jail), or kill them. I prefer the latter.

That logic ignores all the people who are generally pretty good, but make a mistake and then regret what they did and are rehabilitated (scared shitless) in prison. Just because lots and lots of prisoners aren't like that doesn't mean the one's who are should just be written off as lost causes. I think you'd want to try and kill the really bad ones right off the bat, then give the repentant ones one chance after they get out, (or two if you like baseball analogies that much) then kill them immediately if they show up again.

[Mr. Roboto]

Death Note 33 (Kuro-Hana)

http://kuro-hana.edwardk.info/dn33lq.torrent

[Yukimura]

Okay that stuff at 11:10 was just weird, and the aftermath didn't make sense either. How could Near deduce Mikami so quickly when Light was looking for who to choose for a while, sure he's 'smart' and stuff, but he can't just magically figure things out with no evidence whatsoever.

Anyway I'm sensing several deaths are on the horizon. I'm thinking Takeda will kill Amane, believing that because she doesn't know about Light being Kira she isn't important to him. Also, Mikami, who showed himself to be an idiot in this episode, will probably be dead by the next ep. That CIA plant should be dead within two eps and at least one more team member will probably have to die, my mony's on Aizawa since he's so nosy.

[masamuneehs]

definitely one of my favorite moments in a long slew of "Super genius with some kind of defect" tradition comes when Near asks Lester to come all the way back to New York so that he doesn't have to board the plane all by himself. Adorable. At first I really did not like him, always comparing him to L, but I'm coming to like Near more and more.

He's ballsy as hell. I mean, L was bold sometimes, but Near has no qualms with outright challenging Light and placing himself and his men in the line of fire, whatever it takes to bring Kira down.

And all his toys! I'm so envious of the kid... The Christmas tree in his investigation headquarters also made me smile. That kid has got to be some kind of spoiled...

I can't help but think Light is running out of plans. He's currently relying on two pillars of support (Mikami and Takada) that look pretty shaky. When it was just Misa, that was fine, she had to be involved because she started out with a Note, on her own. But now that Light has chosen these two... I can't help but think it's the beginning of the end for them. This episode showed Mikami begin to question his "god's" judgment and also showed that Takada might break under high-stress situations.

I don't quite buy how Near figures out that Mikami is involved... seems way too... convienent
.
This was the first episode where I actually liked Misa. Finally causing some shit on her own again! Her scenes were both funny and interesting, especially the dinner.

That one split-second shot of Takada, when she realized that she could kill Misa if she wanted to, that was also solid gold.

and at the end of the episode it looks like one of Light's supports truly does falter. But, you have to wonder, does Mikami screws up, or maybe it's all part of Light's plan?

[ForteCross]

how i saw that, he didnt screwed up, he called takada to kill this guy, and then he supposedly writed the name on some random note. i see that part of light's plan...

[Koyuki]

Episode 34 is out. Enjoy

Death Note 34

[gr3atfull]

I really liked this episode. I can't wait to see what is Near's plan and what will L do.